How to take a break with a therapist without it being a final end?

[grit]

I am really sorry Justmehere but the more you write about this and expand your thoughts, the more I am feeling you are in full re-enactment of something. You "need" her and cannot leave and yet she is not doing "whatever" you think she is not that you cannot do for yourself either. It is extremely a vicious cycle of what is what? You are so enmeshed and give in some serious functions to her and she is so enmeshed and cannot tell (I am not giving her any credit over you) or does not want to and boom. You are one ball of dysfunction. One of you has to cut the empirical cord. I wonder if you should for your own mental health and stability, start to interview other therapist, just even to get a relief from this ball of something. Why not? I think this may break the extreme dependency and may remind you in a visceral way YOU ARE APART FROM HER AND SURVIVED BEFORE HER AND WILL SURVIVE AFTER HER. she is not your blood system. I do understand and honestly empathize with your pain but you are also extremely outsourcing a lot of you into her and maybe you do not see that. It is so easy for me to say this than see it for own self. but hope you find something in my comment, if not, I am sorry and I hope you find the strength you have had many times before. Fold it!

If you cannot stop the pain, why do you think she should?

 

[Justmehere]

I’m learning disabled (it shows up in spelling mistakes) and also bright - or in therapy she says I’m “insightful” about some things. I grew up being penalized for legitimately saying I don’t understand. I was told you are smart enough. Try harder.

I think the same thing is happening here.

She knows I was interrogated by a perp. Like you know, with a gun to my head for an extended period of time. I can’t get into details further. But asking the same question over and over and over... I’ve started recording sessions with her and I could go back and listen. It felt like the same question more than 10 times. After the 3rd or 4th time I just get tense and very uneasy. She just asks it all the more. When I asked why she wasn’t taking my answers seriously as legit statements and why she would ask the questions again and again, she said my small tone made it hard to believe. When I asked, “what would help her not ask do aak the same questions she said she couldn’t tell me, not today.”

She did say my tone is not adult. I listed to the recording to see if I could hear that. I can’t. She said I looked small and pale. I was in a dress. I hardly wear dresses. How do I fix looking small and pale? It’s greaking winter.

If I say no I’m not going to keep answering the same question over and over and ask to do something else, like an adult would, she gets visibly and audibly annoyed.

I can’t do the therapy via 50 minutes of questioning.

I signed up for somatic work with her. That worked. Then I showed her the timeline of the trauma. Trauma wasn’t new to her, the chronological timeline was new. Now it’s all this talk therapy, all questions. She got annoyed two weeks ago because I couldn’t list what classes I would take when I got back in school. I legit don’t know, don’t care, and don’t want to pay $1.25 per minute for a trauma therapist to do academic course advising that I can get for free. I’m not even in school. I have no idea why she even asks all these questions. Last week I just answered all questions and that was like the whole therapy. I just gave info. I got overwhelmed inside, but I just went with her questions. I described extremely graphic details of trauma. Her only comment or statement or suggestion was at the very end and it was to tell me to write a do-not-send letter to a journalist. I left feeling terrible.

I spent 30 minutes yesterday having her ask over and over what would make an imaginary house safe and make me relax into my body.
“Locks on the doors, no one there, many fields keeping people away, defensive weapons, the dog.”
She kept asking what else would make it safe.
“I don’t know. I don’t feel unsafe in my life right now. I feel sad.”
“What would make the house more safe? What’s it going to take to relax into your body?”
“I don’t know I feel pretty present as it is right now.”
“What else would help you feel safe and relax in the (imaginary house)?
“I don’t know. The dog. The locks on the doors. Many of them. No one there. Do you have any suggestions?”
“What else would help it feel safe and help you relax?”’
“Why are we working on the house needing safety? I feel sad.”
“What else would help you feel safe and relax in the (imaginary house)? Can you describe more ways to make the house safe?” She was sitting with her eyes closed asking me this.
“No one is there and no one can be there.”
“What else?”
Silence.
“What else would help you relax into your body and feel safe in the house?”
“More locks. I don’t know what else. What’s the danger?”
“What would help you relax and feel safe in the house? More weapons?”
“Uh sure.”
“What else?”


I don’t know why I couldn’t think of other things. I wanted connection. I wanted to talk about the pain I was in. I wanted to have someone with me. I wanted to work on finding comfort and connection in my life. Instead we are building an imaginary f*cking fort. It wasn’t what I wanted. I thought it was progress I want more connection.

After 30 minutes of being asked why would help me relax and feel safe, I was almost hyperventilating and totally dissociating. This just lead to more “what will help you relax into your body and feel safe in (imaginary house)?” I told her, “I am getting I’m nervous not answering well enough and I am really tired today. When you repeat the questions it feels like - “
“Nope we are not going to go there. Being angry at me is a different conversation.”
I was going to tell her it was triggering memories of the traumatic interrogation... clealry it’s NOT that, but. I couldn’t figure out why else this was driving me buggy.

It’s not a bad question to ask what would help me relax and feel safe.. I didn’t walk into the session feeling anxious, just tired and sad. It’s still a good question. Good exercise. I really drew a blank on what else to say. I was tired. I don’t know why we were doing this exercise.

Later on she asked what additional social events I can schedule. I explained I have have at least 3 a day for the past two weeks, and I’m working with people all the rest of the day. I’m out of hours in the day.
“What other clubs or groups can you join?”

What I should have said: “which ones meet at 3am?! Because that’s the hour I’m free right now.”

What I did actually say: “What would demonstrate I’m engaged in enough social activities so that we can talk about the grief or other things?”
“We can’t talk about that today. I’m not going to do that.”
“Oh ok.”
“So what other social activities can you add?”

The freaking questions. What the heck?! Is this therapy? I feel like I don’t know how to be a therapy client anymore.

 

[ILoveLife]

Can I ask you something? Why is it so important to you that you please her questioning, when you already know this is (at the least) a very dysfunctional relationship?

I can understand wanting to please our therapists, but we can't please them into forced support. She isn't supporting you and is making a clear line in the sand that she isn't willing to.
I'd say that's unprofessional of her, clearly.

You keep wondering what you're doing wrong, and I think the only thing here you're still clinging on to is to try and make this work with her when even her is saying it's not working. And this DOES NOT constitute a failure to be a "therapy client" on your part, despite her allowing you or not to be angry at her. This constitutes a failed therapeutic relationship, and it might just be that her methods don't work on you, and not by either of you's fault (sorry about my english, not feeling particularly chipper today either).

 

[Justmehere]

Can I ask you something? Why is it so important to you that you please her questioning, when you already know this is (at the least) a very dysfunctional relationship?

Because for 2.5 years, she’s been an amazing therapist. Able to deal with stuff most can’t. Then I gave her a timeline. All the trauma she already knew, just not in order. The therapy we did prior to the timeline... I thought it helped. I’m doubting that. I don’t want to accept I spent my very limited money on crappy therapy. I want to believe it can be helpful again. I don’t want it to be a timeline is what ended it all. I can’t find other therapy yet. I’d love to just quit any therapy. I’m not stable this time. I do seriously doubt any therapy with anyone can help. It’s a crappy goodbye. I don’t have anyone else offline for support. Got tons of social events to attend. :(

I’ve asked for receipts for sessions. She used to give them every time I paid. It’s through Square online payments. Just pops up in my email. Now, no reciepts. She keeps saying she’ll get to it. Never does. She’s totally giving up. I can’t even resolve the no receipt issue. I should just email her and and say I can’t pay/schedule for further sessions due to the lack of receipts.

 

[grit]

I can honestly say my mother, the monster, was also good at times; otherwise, I would never recognized love in life. The mere fact I recognize love today means, I must got some even in glimpses during all the tumble and problems of my childhood.

Your therapist is good and has been good to you for many years but she, as any human, can be bad and even dangerous sometimes too. You have to take both scenarios are true and protect yourself when needed. What I am sensing is your are discounting she can hurt you and is hurting you and you are holding on to the good times. You can but by accepting she is dangerous and you need to protect could be the antidote you need for that experience you describe above. Maybe you froze in it just as you are now. Repeating the same reaction until you learn.

I wonder what will happen to your integration if you say to her: I love you but I am being hurt by our interactions of late. I need to separate from you so I can deal with this and come back and appreciate you and work with you again. You are acknowledging both good and the bad and still be you. I just wonder.

what I am sensing now is you are under a gun from her and unable to say wow! ouch! I am hurting here. I need to take time out for myself.

What are the scenarios in your head that if you speak up as you have here?

I really feel you are standing a great moment to integrate an area of yourself that has been quite elusive all your life.

 

[scout86]

“what will help you relax into your body and feel safe in (imaginary house)?

First, I've got to confess that, when my T asked his version that question, I launched into a dissertation on how the concept of "safety" is an example of delusional thinking. (He was ok with that.)

It sounds to me like you're answering the question the way you think SHE wants you to answer it, not with your own real answer. From what you've said here, it seems like "connection" and "empathy" would feel safer than being walled off behind big walls. (I'm totally sure it's complicated. Like I said, I don't, personally, even believe in "safe".)

I don't know that that has anything to do with what's going on, it's just what struck from your last post.

 

[Justmehere]

It sounds to me like you're answering the question the way you think SHE wants you to answer it, not with your own real answer. From what you've said here, it seems like "connection" and "empathy" would feel safer than being walled off behind big walls.

Yeah. I was trying to make up whatever she wanted to hear would be good enough for the imaginary house. It didn’t even cross my mind to say empathetic connection. That would have been the real answer.

 

[scout86]

As messy as the situation is (and I truly have NO idea what she's up to), maybe you could work on what ever your "real" answer to that question would be and send it to her? I wonder what she'd do with that? The way I understand it, the point of the exercise is to give us, and the therapist, some insight into....... I'm honestly not sure into WHAT, but I think it matters what you actually think and feel about the concept.

 

[Justmehere]

Yeah. I’m usually pretty blunt, and she said recently said I’m a super honest client, but somehow this last session I was just trying to do whatever would be enough.... The questioning shuts me down so fast, and I don’t know how to resolve it. I can’t handle it when others do it too. It’s not just her, but it’s more problematic with her. It’s happened with other therapists too. I’m terrible at intakes where anyone has a very detailed checklist and little time and a need for many intimate details.

I think it would be a good idea to try to write it out. I can’t imagine myself into safety. It’s too imaginary. Feels almost like an insult. Like safety isn’t real so let’s inagien it. Might as well imagine unicorns. Way cooler and more realistic. But maybe what would be in an imaginary place that would help me feel more comfortable and ok - I can imagine that. Daydreaming is cool. That’s basically what this is...

When I sit down to write that as if I was writing to her, or any therapist, I go blank. I feel irritated. Defensive. My ears turn red and I think I feel ashamed. I don’t know why. It’s probably what happened in session too.

 

[MyWillow]

Maybe write it to yourself? I would probably write it to one of my cats or dogs. They are definitely safe. When I’ve done safe place work I actually imagine a moment in time I did feel safe. Sitting on a small cliff face with one of my working gundogs waiting for her “job” to start. I can feel the breeze and it’s quiet and I feel like the whole world is below me. Unfortunately I also have a habit of dissociating really quickly when we do guided imagery in session. So we don’t do it anymore ;)

 

[blackemerald1]

The concept of 'safety' & I have a similar opinion with @scout on that - isn't really the most prominent feature to me.

It wasn't the subject matter... it was the interrogatorial tone/intensity of the session!!

When a person is intensely interrogated several things happen psychologically. I'm not going to address them all but @Justmehere your desire to answer the question, attempts to re-frame your answer and the continuous rebuttal by your shrink is actually interrogation 101 and it's used by LE & barrister's ALL the time...to rattle, exhaust, power shift and obtain information or answer questions that they want to hear.

Now let's be really gracious here and assume it's not in your T's mind to do anything but obtain information that will help her to help you.

What good can come from this information? You did ask her in your own way several times... and she rebutted your answer repeatedly. You did tell her that you didn't have an issue with safety but you did have an issue with being sad...and she continued to hammer you.

You then became exhausted. Exhaustion leads to compliance..a person will want to tell the interrogator what they want to hear just so they stop the interrogation. This technique works extremely well but it leaves the person being interrogated totally screwed because capitulation doesn't necessarily mean truth.

Saying what they believe the interrogator wants to hear is one thing... but usually in their own minds they know that it's not true etc., However if it stops the interrogation there is momentary respite. Respite means being free to not answer questions for a while. Do you see the pattern? Is this the time between sessions when you come away from seeing your T and before you go back in and face another question and answer session. BUT. To what end??

At a certain point information gathered by this technique is almost certainly completely unreliable, untrue and the answers will start to mirror the questions. It is useless... you started to do this by asking your T what she wanted to know so you could say it and stop the questioning....

Clearly in other scenarios interrogation has a very real purpose and it has to be done.

I don't see that in a therapeutic relationship... it causes fear, isolation, degrades the self, helplessness etc., It is very damaging.

I've had this interrogation stuff done to me...and it's part of my trauma.. This is quite stressful for me to write about ugh..scream! ugh!!

I can understand there is a technique used at times similar to this when a person is very resistant to moving forward. Is this the case for you? Idk. I don't know your situation to know if this was being employed by her to get you to come to some emphatic moment that you are in denial about....I honestly cannot imagine how...but maybe?? And.. if this was her intent is it really worth the damage that is being done to you psychologically and the therapeutic relationship to get to that? Again idk...

I'd love to think that your T was following a well structured plan to help you but your distress and her denial of your limitations is abhorrent to me. :hug:

 

[Justmehere]

You then became exhausted. Exhaustion leads to compliance..a person will want to tell the interrogator what they want to hear just so they stop the interrogation. This technique works extremely well but it leaves the person being interrogated totally screwed because capitulation doesn't necessarily mean truth.

Yeah. That. Just reading it brings back some of it....

It’s helpful to have it written out like that, thank you.

I've had this interrogation stuff done to me...and it's part of my trauma.. This is quite stressful for me to write about ugh..scream! ugh!!

It makes my heartrate speed up and my hands shake to even think about it. Wow. This is helpful to recognize.

I can understand there is a technique used at times similar to this when a person is very resistant to moving forward.

Yeah, there is a technique called motivational interviewing. I have used a brief nonprofessional version of it when talking to a friend who resisted cancer treatment. My therapist is actually the one who suggested it. With my friend I did a lot of active listening, validating, reflecting back, and then basically asked my friend if she has weighed all the options. That was it. She still resisted.

Therapeutic use of it... I don’t really know much, but from what I have now read online, I’m not sure if what she is doing is motivational interviewing.

I wrote out the imaginary place....

She said I drive the sessions too much. I have no idea what this means. I said, “ok, I’ll submit more.” Wtf. These are not words I say. She pushed back and said that’s not what she wants. I’m totally relating to her as if she is a perp. I’m appeasing. Fawning. I HATE THAT. It makes me feel sick. She is not a perp. Maybe unhelpful, but not a perp.