Relationship I Don't Know What To Do.

[Sarah Lee]

I have ptsd from childhood abuse and last year started a relationship with a man who also has ptsd from childhood abuse. At first things were great, I thought I had finally met someone who understood me, we could talk for hours, he was romantic and said all the right things. Then some red flags started to show, he was quite controlling and jealous, even though he got angry if I showed any jealousy, but he excused his jealousy and his controlling actions (like requiring me to end friendships with men) by things that needed to be done in order for him to feel secure. I did all he wanted as I wanted him to feel safe and secure in our relationship. Next it was our arguments, he would have double standards when it came to things we said or did during arguments, he has said some increadibly hurtful things, yelled at me, put me down, sworn but has ended things with me and will not forgive me if I do any of those things. He even blames me for the times that he loses control and says that I forced him to act in that way. In many ways I feel like I am being gaslighted, when I react in ways that I would have thought were appropriate, and that friends who I have discussed things with have told me are not out of line, he tells me that I am being abusive. An example of this is me raising my voice as he kept talking over the top of me, I shouldn't have raised my voice but we were arguing on the phone and he had spent the last 10 minutes talking over the top of me whenever I tried to explain my stance. He accused me of being abusive for doing this and would not even acknowledge to talking over the top of me. We have been on/off, it is always him who does the breaking up, and after breaking up for what I thought was for good in Febuary, we spent last weekend together and spoke about getting back together. For the most part the weekend was great and I really thought that things but be taking a turn for the better. We discussed getting back together a few times throughout the weekend and at first he really sounded like he wanted to get back together but by the last day he said he couldn't view us as a couple but he still wanted to work towards us getting back together. He said he holds a lot of resentment and anger towards me and cannot trust me yet. He has a history of pullling me closer and pushing me away and I am worried that this is just another case of that. We live quite far away and out of the blue he started sending me romantic texts wanting me to fly down to spend the weekend with him for him birthday, it cost me $400 to get down there (which is a lot to me) and it is only now that I am back and alone and have not heard from him (but I don't want to frustrate him by calling) that I am begining to worry that he didn't mean any of what he said and that he didn't really want to get back together and i don't know what to do or think.

As for his accusing me of being abusive, I think he is easily hurt due to past trauma and measures actions by how much they hurt him and not by the reality of them and this makes it hard as he really believes what he is saying. I have emails back and forth between us, where he is saying everything hurtful that he can think of and accusing me of all sorts of thing and all I am doing is pleading with him, yet he maintains that I was abusive in those exchanges. It is so hard, as I love him and I know he is unwell but at the same time being with someone who holds so much resentment towards me and who believes I am actively trying to hurt them and sabotage their life (things he has accused me of) is very hard, as is the constant on/off nature of our relationship.

I don't know what to do, after a beautiful weekend together, to be back in reality where I don't seem to matter and where contacting him will likely result in accusations of being needy or possesive. In some ways I think it would be better for me to end things, he will not go to therapy or take any acountability for his actions, but on the other hand I love him and when you strip away all negative behaviours that result from ptsd he is an amazing person but there is only so much I can take. When we were together I lost nearly 10kg, failed university subjects and spent most of my time worrying about the state of the relationship. i want to work towards being with him but I don't want to go back to feeling like that (added to that I don't even know if he was serious about wanting to get back together, I think he thought he was serious but as soon as he had me back he reverted to pushing me away again). The other thing is, I don't know how good I would be at ending things, each time he has broken up with me before, it is like the moment I begin to feel okay about the breakup, or if not okay at least that I will get through it, he calls me up and says all the right things to get back into my life. I am sick of this rollercoaster, I want him to take accountability and to work on his issues but I am scared to even ask him to do that.

 

[BigBear]

Hi SL,

This reeks of uncontrolled PTSD. Is he under any formal treatment.

The in and out, push and pull is quite normal. Abusiveness can seem normal but is totally unacceptable. The same for double standards. Some sufferers use PTSD as an excuse to do what ever they want. Again unacceptable.

I hope others will jump in here and give more concrete discussion. I hesitate to, as I am only a supporter. It would be really good for a sufferer who is a supporter to give you your best advice.

Bear

 

[Eleanor]

he will not go to therapy or take any acountability for his actions, but on the other hand I love him and when you strip away all negative behaviours that result from ptsd he is an amazing person but there is only so much I can take.

Sarah Lee, I apologize for the directness of this, as it will seem harsh: If he won't go to therapy or be accountable for his actions then you cannot have a healthy relationship with him. You are free to sign up for a relationship with him, and you may decide to do that, but it will be an abusive one. He has abused you in the past. He is not sorry. He is not interested in changing.

IMO: The ONLY difference between a garden variety abusive relationship and a difficult relationship with someone who has PTSD is the sufferer's commitment to and active pursuit of treatment and healing.

It sounds like you REALLY need to work on taking care of yourself.

What do you "get" from being with him? How do you give that to yourself? He is clearly bad for you - you go into self-neglect decline when in relationship with him. What need of yours is so unmet that the appearance/hope of meeting it drives you into self destruction?

If he only gets in contact with you on the phone - block his calls. It is cheaper than another flight to see him. It's easy to screen out people on email and facebook. He lives far away, so if you don't contact him, and he can't contact you... you're safe.

By the way - any man who asks a woman to buy an airplane ticket to come visit him AND asks her to pay for the ticket, (relationship or not!) is not a man worth walking across the street to talk to IMHO. MAJOR red flag here. This guy is no good.

 

[Tifanee]

I agree with Eleanor. Sounds like both of you feed off of the others weaknesses, which isn't healthy regardless of PTSD. If he didn't have PTSD, would you put up with this behavior?

My love has similar responses to me when he is in a PTSD moment and it is abusive. I don't have an opinion or a voice when he is in that moment. I understand what is happening and give him the space he needs, but I will not tolerate the verbal abuse. Thanks to Eleanor, PaleWarrior, and ProudWife, I feel like I am making the best decisions for me, and letting him deal with his own choices. I will not cater to, nor engage with the PTSD moment. I will support him, but not lose my needs.

However, for a supporter who also is a sufferer, and appears to have challenges with maintaining personal safe boundaries to handle her own PTSD, this is a bad combination. Take care of yourself first...get strong for yourself. He is responsible for him, and you are responsible for you. I agree with Eleanor, a man isn't a gentlemen if he has you fly down to him for a "hook-up" then doesn't call you and basically disrespects you.

You deserve better Sarah Lee, and never give a man the power to change how you see yourself. He should be coming to you after how he has behaved. If you want it to work in the long run, he needs to be accountable for his ptsd and make the right choices for him. If it remains untreated as his choice, then you are accountable for the choice to stay in that relationship.

Have you talked to him about this forum? Maybe it would be a good start for him.

 

[Eleanor]

Have you talked to him about this forum? Maybe it would be a good start for him.

Or maybe not - Sarah Lee, first and foremost keep this forum for YOU.

(sorry to contradict you, Tifanee - the impulse is worthy! My reaction is because there was another supporter this year who had to leave because her abuser "found" her here, and she couldn't come anymore and feel safe:( - so I'm now a bit wary of sharing the site... at least in this kind of case!)

 

[Tifanee]

I agree 100% with you Eleanor. I think my message was more about giving him some resources he could find help or support if he wasn't ready for a therapist. Maybe he would be receptive to hearing how Sarah Lee is finding support online, and it would put a bug in his ear that maybe he could find support/help too. He may not be ready now to hear it, but when he is ready it would be a start to reach out to others with PTSD for support. Sorry I didn't clarify my last note:barefoot:

Eleanor, thank you for contradicting me this morning, and embrace your impulsive side.:cool:

 

[Tinyflame]

I agree with you both.

I think you hit the nail on the head Tifanee when you said about sufferers needing their own safety.

 

[ProudWife99]

Sarah - I know sometimes we type and hit post reply, but I really encourage you to go back and read what it is that you posted. I 100% agree with Eleanor, the only reason I EVER put up with H's anger directed at me is because he was, every day, actively seeking treatment. Had he not been, he would have been no better than my ex who yelled with his fists.

What makes you think that he is going to be different every time you enter back into this relationship? Why are you being punished for his trust issues? Why is his illness more important than yours?

I apologize if I come across as harsh, but I find myself very concerned for both of you. Enabling his bad behavior does not help him or his PTSD in any way. It only hurts both of you. If allowing him to be abusive because you love him makes you feel like you're supporting him, you are not. As you plead you run the risk of solidifying to him that he can act however he pleases and you are at fault.

Please, if not for your sake than for his, end the destructive cycle. It will prove neither beneficial nor helpful to either of you.

Take care of yourself.

 

[Pale Warrior]

Hi Sara Lee, and welcome.

I am so, so very sorry to read of your situation. I have PTSD relating to the horrors of my childhood and early adult life and can relate very well to your feelings of longing for this man and the dialogues you describe come straight from one of my ex's play books and I lapped it up, lost weight, cut my freinds loose, gave up every thing for him, yet the more I gave the greater the abuse - I might as well have written DOOR MAT on my forehead. He ended up raping me.

Now, I am not suggesting that your man will stoop so low BUT it is a warning as to how bad it can get if you let it.

Enabling his bad behavior does not help him or his PTSD in any way. It only hurts both of you. If allowing him to be abusive because you love him makes you feel like you're supporting him, you are not. As you plead you run the risk of solidifying to him that he can act however he pleases and you are at fault.

I am sorry to say this but PW99 is giving good counsel, I wish someone had sat me down and told me the "home truths".

Actually, someone did, an ex GF of his met me for a coffee and spilled the beans on his act. Sadly, I was too much of an abuse hound to believe her - or at least I could fix him because I loved him - and when I told him, he made her out to be a crazy jealous bunny boiler and naturally I believed him.

Just liten to yourself:

I am sick of this rollercoaster

Then get off, and do it now, look after yourself, nurture and love are what you need.

I want him to take accountability and to work on his issues but I am scared to even ask him to do that.

Love has nothing to do with being scared, nothing. Only abuse. He may have PTSD, but that is none of your concern right now - it's his burden not yours.

I hope you can find the strength and support to stay away and start caring for yourself.

 

[Sarah Lee]

Thanks for the replies.

I really don't want to give up on the relationship (not that I can even call it a relationship) and keep telling myself that I will disengage and wait and see if he improves but the truth is I can't disengage without cutting him out of my life and I am begining to see that that is what I probably will have to do. The trouble is I feel like I am not ready to end things, I can't bear the thought of us not being in each other's lives but at the same time I know the only way I will ever stop feeling like this is if I end things entirely and even then it will take time. I can block his number but through work I will still have the occasional contact with him that cannot be avoided.

I still have not heard from him and while it has only been three days, if the weekend really meant something to him and really was the start of us working towards getting back together I would have expected at least a text saying he had a nice time but nothing. I feel so used right now, he knows how broke I am, he knows I need surgery that I have been postponing because I am casual and cannot afford that amount of time off work and while it is my fault for spending what money I had on flying down to see him instead of saving it so I can have the surgery it still stings that he doesn't seem to care. It is like the whole thing is just a powergame, and it isn't me that he loves but the feeling of knowing that he can click his fingers and I will drop everything to be by his side.

I know that once he realises that I am taking myself out of things that he will do all he can to 'hoover' me back in and I don't know that I am strong enough to not fall for it.

I don't actually class any of his behaviour as abusive, as heartless as some of it was, I mentioned abuse in that he has accused me of being abusive, basically when he didn't get his own way. I think part is that he has really ill defined notions of what behaviour is acceptable and what is not, he seems to think anything that he doesn't like is abuse, and partly because he knows that if he tells me I am wrong enough times I will start to believe it.

I do have issues with setting bounderies and with fear of abandonment, both which stem from my own ptsd and this relationship has made me question whether two people with ptsd are capable of having a relationship, if it could work I think it would take a lot of effort by both parties and lots of therapy.

 

[Sarah Lee]

I think this board could help him but a, I don't think he would actually post because that would mean actually working on things instead of blaming everyone else and b, if I sent him the link to this site and he read my posts about our relationship it would cause one awful fight.

 

[Eleanor]

Just because YOU don't think of it as abuse does not mean that it is not abuse. There is a list somewhere - and a definition ... I will try to find it for you. I had to come to terms with this too - early days here. My H is emotionally abusive when he is in an episode. I don't blame him for this. It is out of his immediate control, that is the nature of PTSD episodes. BUT it is in his long term control because he takes responsibility for it, and for treating the PTSD. If he didn't do that, it would just be abuse. Whether I label it as abuse or not has nothing to do with how hurtful it is. Recognizing it as abuse is honoring both the hurt it does me (and my daughter) and his power and responsibility to get it under control. He has a bad "definition" of abuse. And so do you. His job is getting it under control. My job is protecting my daughter and me from his outbursts (primarily in order to protect us - and secondarily in order to support him in his healing by setting appropriate limits.)

Here is the hard truth about PTSD: Nothing will help him until he takes responsibility for his behavior - and you letting him off the hook too just reinforces that. And I'm guessing every person on this forum (and who better to know that this group?) will agree with me on THAT.

If you want to get better, being involved with him has given you a huge clue to figure out a big piece of what needs healing in you - what need of yours does he meet? It is clearly one that is not getting met otherwise - or that you are not getting met - because it is so urgent that it "he" is addictive. You want him, even though it is a destructive thing for you. yes?

It is possible for two people with PTSD to have a healthy relationship - but ONLY IF BOTH are taking responsibility for themselves and NEITHER takes responsibility for the bad behavior of the other. So its tough.