Friday
Moderator
Exactly this.From there, though, you have to consider the various shades that come up related to people respecting and valuing each other, or not.
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Exactly this.From there, though, you have to consider the various shades that come up related to people respecting and valuing each other, or not.
I agree with this. I think suppressing/splitting off from anger is just as bad as being overly aggressive about anger. I get angry at parents who stay with abusive spouses too. I left my ex at a time when I hadn't finished my degree, had no job, my son was younger than 2 and I was scared as s**t, but jumped into the abyss anyway. I really have a hard time accepting the choice some parents make to stay out of whatever, apathy, fear or convenience.he couldn’t even show anger toward his ex who treated his children like shit
I understand the caution here. However, in the quote you refer to, I really did mean 'anger' and not merely the aggressive form. A little story: early on in my journey to re-evaluate my relationship with anger, I used to get road rage. I was in the habit of getting mad at traffic, drivers, etc. and I "allowed" it because I thought it was harmless enough. But then I looked back at my young son who was about 5 years old at the time, and I could see that he was very concerned, perhaps scared at my raised voice and angry expression. Around the same time, we had a neighbor family who's father raged almost every night. Without warning, we'd hear loud yelling, and a second later, there would be crying. They had three kids, but I think it was the youngest one who always cried. I could totally imagine the dad justifying his behavior by saying that at least he wasn't "really" violent, or that he was just being human. I myself was always startled by the angry voice, my heart would be a little faster and I got a little scared. I realized that my yelling for whatever reason was distressing and scary, and for what? Traffic? So I decided not to get mad in the car. I meditated instead, and started realizing that there was so much I could be focused on instead of bad drivers. I was alive, with my son, on a beautiful day, in no hurry. Why the hell was I focused in on the red light getting impatient?? Over time, I totally lost my road rage. I would be horrified to have to go back to a time when instead of relaxing with music and company, I was hunched over my wheel cursing out cars. I do think angry thoughts breed more angry thoughts. I definitely think we build habits of thought that can be healthy or unhealthy.Watch out for the anger/agression overlap.
I said in an earlier post that I have definitely, definitely felt anger and rage. My childhood left me with a lot of that. I sometimes wonder if I had borderline tendencies because sometimes the rage felt uncontrollable. The fact is I have the luxury to say that I am in a much better place because of all the work of healing. At the same time, even then, I think what I'm saying now applies - where you are with your anger is fact, but not the aspiration. I wanted to signal to my bf that wherever we are, I want to be able to aspire to handling anger in a way that does not multiply that suffering by inflicting the demons of the past on each other. I want to build up as much as possible gestures and choices towards uplifting, respecting, and supporting the other. A lifetime of making such choices I think is possible and ideal. Anger tends to be destructive.Have you ever felt anger like that on your own behalf????
I agree with this. My T thinks the primary emotions are hurt and fear. She and I decided that anger is such a sensitive issue because it speaks to a core of vulnerability. But moreover, anger is way of protecting ourselves from hurting, so to tell someone to lower the shield I think kicks up even more feelings of vulnerability. If someone tells you to lower your shield, you want to raise it even higher! To me, that's the reason why many of us go back and forth between suppression and aggression. But BOTH are ways of avoiding primary vulnerability. To be able to sit with hurt and be able to ask the other to address that hurt is a lot harder than yelling your brains out. I try to communicate the underlying hurt to my bf every time I feel it even if it feels silly and scary. Most of the time, it is just silly, and turns out to not be a correct perception. But I insist on vocalizing it anyway so that I am not left with a distorted view unchecked. And thankfully, he appreciates me clearing the air. I genuinely think this will help avoid blow ups later.Anger is a secondary emotion. It is always triggered by a primary emotion. More than one therapist was concerned enough that I was to caught up in the primary emotion that I couldn't move on to anger to release it.
I kind of disagree with this for the reasons I stated earlier.Habits are totaly different and it seems you are trying to equate that with anger. Anger doesn't breed anger, shit that triigers the primary emotion breeds anger.
I'll admit if I'm trying to control someone, but generally I am not someone who tries to control another. That's just not a part of my MO, at least now. I think I was somewhat like that when I was younger. My bf isn't controlling either. But I respect that you can be self-aware.n other words, I’m trying to predict and control the others potential behavior because deep down I know I will struggle to have a healthy response for myself if it does occur.
I understand this and agree with the sentiment. I do believe though that the feeling of anger itself should not be ignored because as everyone is saying, it is highly instructive.I'm not saying I'm gonna be violent because I'm angry I'm saying every time I've experienced violence there was anger but, that's just for me.
Yes, like Aristotle said, anger is the "emotion of justice". It tells us when our boundaries have been violated. But even he said that emotion itself doesn't discern what we ought to do. To act impulsively is animalistic; to act by choice is human.anger is the emotion whose job is to keep other people from running over the top of us. I
I agree with this as I've said a number of times above.In most cases it's about boundary infringement and the way one deals with anger can lead to further boundary infringement or, if your self awareness and communicate skill set are developed, and extensive enough, it's a useful emotional guage for the (e)motivation for maintaining healthy boundaries .
Agreed. There are times when I make it a point to stay with my anger because I think it's so instructive. When I was bulldozed over by my parents, I didn't have time nor ability to reflect on the ways in which that impacted me. I like how Walker describes anger as a protest emotion. At first, if we don't get our needs met, we get angry, and after a while we give up and conclude that it is our needs that were wrong, not our parents. We need our parents to survive, so we contort our behaviors to make our parents's demands work no matter how much we have to distort and suppress ourselves. I think getting in touch with our anger revives our sense of selves. We were not wrong for having needs for love and recognition. I do think that anger at past hurts causes a problem when it gets mixed in with justified anger in the present. The raging over and above what is justified is so unfair to the other. There is no end to this rage, so nothing one could do can truly satisfy and resolve it. I've been trying to present to my partner feelings of hurt or misunderstandings that I want him to address. I make it possible to address it fully and I give him a way of completely resolving it to our satisfaction. Any kind of venting and raging over and above this is exhausting, futile, and without redress. That's okay too if that's where one is. But as I said earlier, that kind of exchange is not what I want to aspire to.Anger is an absolutely necessary and important aspect of an assertive, non-niave self-and-sometimes-other protective mechanism, that is part of what helps us survive, and not simply be predated on and at the mercy of those-who-would-predate-on-us, those who would manipulate us and corral us into behaving in ways that are not in keeping with our soveignty and best interests.
Are you implying that this what I'm doing with boyfriend?The most manipulative, hurtful, controlling and harmful people in my life have tried to manipulate me by telling me my anger is not allowed, thus, ultimately, completely disempowering me.
I think that it’s really obvious that you’ve put a tonne of work into managing your emotions, anger especially. It shows in your posts, and if you haven’t already, perhaps give yourself a little high five because there’s so much work involved in getting to where you are now.Anger tends to be destructive.
Thanks so much for all of your thoughtful responses. I wanted to try and hit up as many as I could, but undoubtedly I'll miss some really good points. I feel like some people misunderstood me, but even then they had some really good points. And there was a lot of you that I think hit it on the nail.
Most important point: I do agree that anger is an important emotion. Aristotle called it the "emotion of justice". As many of you said, it tells us that our boundaries have been crossed and it impels us to seek justice. But also, as many of you said, the very important thing is what we do with that anger.
Very important point: I DO NOT BELIEVE IN TRYING TO CONTROL SOMEONE ELSE'S ANGER. My T convinced me that the way I framed the conversation was anticipatory, but appropriate, and my bf did not take it as a way of trying to control him. So I'm satisfied that this was neither my intention, nor effect. The title of this thread, I think, is more inflammatory than what is the case.
I agree with this. I think suppressing/splitting off from anger is just as bad as being overly aggressive about anger. I get angry at parents who stay with abusive spouses too. I left my ex at a time when I hadn't finished my degree, had no job, my son was younger than 2 and I was scared as s**t, but jumped into the abyss anyway. I really have a hard time accepting the choice some parents make to stay out of whatever, apathy, fear or convenience.
I understand the caution here. However, in the quote you refer to, I really did mean 'anger' and not merely the aggressive form. A little story: early on in my journey to re-evaluate my relationship with anger, I used to get road rage. I was in the habit of getting mad at traffic, drivers, etc. and I "allowed" it because I thought it was harmless enough. But then I looked back at my young son who was about 5 years old at the time, and I could see that he was very concerned, perhaps scared at my raised voice and angry expression. Around the same time, we had a neighbor family who's father raged almost every night. Without warning, we'd hear loud yelling, and a second later, there would be crying. They had three kids, but I think it was the youngest one who always cried. I could totally imagine the dad justifying his behavior by saying that at least he wasn't "really" violent, or that he was just being human. I myself was always startled by the angry voice, my heart would be a little faster and I got a little scared. I realized that my yelling for whatever reason was distressing and scary, and for what? Traffic? So I decided not to get mad in the car. I meditated instead, and started realizing that there was so much I could be focused on instead of bad drivers. I was alive, with my son, on a beautiful day, in no hurry. Why the hell was I focused in on the red light getting impatient?? Over time, I totally lost my road rage. I would be horrified to have to go back to a time when instead of relaxing with music and company, I was hunched over my wheel cursing out cars. I do think angry thoughts breed more angry thoughts. I definitely think we build habits of thought that can be healthy or unhealthy.
I said in an earlier post that I have definitely, definitely felt anger and rage. My childhood left me with a lot of that. I sometimes wonder if I had borderline tendencies because sometimes the rage felt uncontrollable. The fact is I have the luxury to say that I am in a much better place because of all the work of healing. At the same time, even then, I think what I'm saying now applies - where you are with your anger is fact, but not the aspiration. I wanted to signal to my bf that wherever we are, I want to be able to aspire to handling anger in a way that does not multiply that suffering by inflicting the demons of the past on each other. I want to build up as much as possible gestures and choices towards uplifting, respecting, and supporting the other. A lifetime of making such choices I think is possible and ideal. Anger tends to be destructive.
I agree with this. My T thinks the primary emotions are hurt and fear. She and I decided that anger is such a sensitive issue because it speaks to a core of vulnerability. But moreover, anger is way of protecting ourselves from hurting, so to tell someone to lower the shield I think kicks up even more feelings of vulnerability. If someone tells you to lower your shield, you want to raise it even higher! To me, that's the reason why many of us go back and forth between suppression and aggression. But BOTH are ways of avoiding primary vulnerability. To be able to sit with hurt and be able to ask the other to address that hurt is a lot harder than yelling your brains out. I try to communicate the underlying hurt to my bf every time I feel it even if it feels silly and scary. Most of the time, it is just silly, and turns out to not be a correct perception. But I insist on vocalizing it anyway so that I am not left with a distorted view unchecked. And thankfully, he appreciates me clearing the air. I genuinely think this will help avoid blow ups later.
I kind of disagree with this for the reasons I stated earlier.
I'll admit if I'm trying to control someone, but generally I am not someone who tries to control another. That's just not a part of my MO, at least now. I think I was somewhat like that when I was younger. My bf isn't controlling either. But I respect that you can be self-aware.
I understand this and agree with the sentiment. I do believe though that the feeling of anger itself should not be ignored because as everyone is saying, it is highly instructive.
Yes, like Aristotle said, anger is the "emotion of justice". It tells us when our boundaries have been violated. But even he said that emotion itself doesn't discern what we ought to do. To act impulsively is animalistic; to act by choice is human.
I agree with this as I've said a number of times above.
Agreed. There are times when I make it a point to stay with my anger because I think it's so instructive. When I was bulldozed over by my parents, I didn't have time nor ability to reflect on the ways in which that impacted me. I like how Walker describes anger as a protest emotion. At first, if we don't get our needs met, we get angry, and after a while we give up and conclude that it is our needs that were wrong, not our parents. We need our parents to survive, so we contort our behaviors to make our parents's demands work no matter how much we have to distort and suppress ourselves. I think getting in touch with our anger revives our sense of selves. We were not wrong for having needs for love and recognition. I do think that anger at past hurts causes a problem when it gets mixed in with justified anger in the present. The raging over and above what is justified is so unfair to the other. There is no end to this rage, so nothing one could do can truly satisfy and resolve it. I've been trying to present to my partner feelings of hurt or misunderstandings that I want him to address. I make it possible to address it fully and I give him a way of completely resolving it to our satisfaction. Any kind of venting and raging over and above this is exhausting, futile, and without redress. That's okay too if that's where one is. But as I said earlier, that kind of exchange is not what I want to aspire to.
Are you implying that this what I'm doing with boyfriend?
I get angry at parents who stay with abusive spouses too. I left my ex at a time when I hadn't finished my degree, had no job, my son was younger than 2 and I was scared as s**t, but jumped into the abyss anyway. I really have a hard time accepting the choice some parents make to stay out of whatever, apathy, fear or convenience.
It took me a long time to realize that I harbored anger at my passive mom who allowed my aggressive dad to abuse us. I think the passive parent is all the more frustrating because they often do not take responsibility for their part, as my mom did. Until the day she died, she never acknowledged her part.I'm sorry @PreciousChild I found this part of your post disturbing. You get angry because parents don't or didn't do something you did?
I get that you feel your particular circumstances were terrible for you and yet you managed to flee them. Not everyone has that capacity. I'd wish everyone did and would but it's not always possible. Some parents don't make a 'choice' to stay.
Apathy, fear and convenience are not the only inhibitors or factors or combination of circumstances that prevent a parent from leaving abusive spouses. It's much more complicated than that.
But I guess what spiked my interest is your use of the word anger at what are at best victims. Did you really mean to use the word anger?
It seemed to me that she did so because she wanted to keep her home and comfortable (materially) life.
Thanks. That's a good perspective to keep in mind. Maybe I'm being a little judgmental about parents who stay in abusive situations. I understand that they probably don't intend harm by staying despite the fact that it does do harm to the child in the end.(Not my situation even remotely, though to the point of discussion) ... I think this bit, right there, can be very much protectiveness, in many a parent cases.
As in trying to give the kid at least something, by them staying, instead of throwing the life completely in turmoil (with the abuser probably still getting their way.)
In my case, harm was done to my children by staying AND by going. Less harm was done to my children by staying as long as I did, and less harm was done by going when I did, I believe..Thanks. That's a good perspective to keep in mind. Maybe I'm being a little judgmental about parents who stay in abusive situations. I understand that they probably don't intend harm by staying despite the fact that it does do harm to the child in the end.