I feel like my issues are too complex to recover from

[Elef]

I don't think any behavioral approach in general can help me right now. As far as I see things, behavioral strategies are a good way to maintain health, to avoid getting worse, and maybe to improve a small amount, but I don't think they can resolve deep issues, and I have deep issues.

You won't get better until you want to, and stop believing you are much worse than you really are.

Your ability to maintain focus, organise your thoughts, read large amounts of text etc. is evidence of someone who is functioning at a much higher level than you claim you are.

You're obviously feeding and watering yourself, paying your bills, seeking connection with others, all evidence of a basic level of functioning.

You say you have "deep issues" which cannot be resolved with any "behavioural approach". You think I spent the best years of my life in and out of hospital (don't forget the >12 month long single admission) because my issues weren't "deep"?

Ok. You're special. You're the sickest, saddest person ever to have PTSD (but you aren't actually diagnosed with that are you?). I"m out.

 

[joeylittle]

I don't think it's helpful to put "personality disorder" in a young man's head. I was going through borderline type symptoms at his age and when I got a BPD diagnosis it was anything but helpful.

OP is the one who first introduced personality disorder, here:

I just took a personality inventory test that I'm waiting for the results on because my therapist thinks the same thing you do, there's something more going on that neither of us are fully aware of. It's almost certainly a really bad case of borderline, that's what a psychiatrist I saw was suggesting even though I only saw them once. Narcissism I don't think so, I could maybe fit a couple of the traits if you squint, BPD I nail every trait hard.

I understand you were trying to tell him that in your opinion BPD and CPTSD are sometimes too close to call. I simply wanted to hit the reality check of, we don't know what the trauma history is.

You don't think losing a parent at 4 is traumatic? Most likely the primary carer parent?

It doesn't really matter what I think...lost a parent could be a diagnostic criteria, or could not be. I don't necessarily think it's big-T-trauma, that would depend on context. I agree that it could be a major life event, having a strong (potentially negative), formative impact.

the OP stated that his mother left him at 4, but did not provide further details. He also made reference to a trauma after the end of a recent relationship. Everything beyond that is speculative, and I don’t think it’s helpful to anyone to make assumptions about what the OP has, or hasn’t been through in his life.

Bolding added for emphasis - yes, this. If the core trauma we are discussing here is a romantic breakup, then I would question some of the suggestions the OP is getting on how to proceed. If the breakup was the instigation for this latest 'crash', but the unresolved trauma is separate, that's different.

 

[EveHarrington]

You won't get better until you want to, and stop believing you are much worse than you really are.

Your...

You’re awesome. :)

 

[ninja]

Hmm. I guess I was wondering if one approach feels less pressured. Yeah, I think one does have to process trauma (among other things) to become genuinely whole. But I suppose the difference between those approaches is in the mindset,

(1) is the focus on trauma: the processing of it to get to a stable spot, then moving on learning and growing in and with life,

(2) or is processing the trauma part of the process of becoming whole? Becoming whole, which is usually ongoing and lifelong. Certain theories will attempt to describe fundamental themes in this unexpected and lifelong process. If you'd like to be (intellectually) aware of a possible growth process in a long-term manner, perhaps this focus may interest you.

I hope I am communicating the difference in a clear enough way. I think it is a matter of preference honestly, as I think they both have the same potential for wholeness. If (2), then is it not somewhat implicit that trauma processing is expected to happen while we are not whole, but on our way to becoming? (& Whole being something we will probably always be working towards in our own lives.)

It seems trauma processing happens in the worst of circumstances sometimes. We're marginally put together, shaking angry afraid mess of complex and confusing feelings. If you don't particularly feel comfortable around feelings to begin due to some aspects of personality it can be even trickier. Can be done. You are up for the job.

From the little bit I've gleaned I do not think the monster will damage everything. Though your T knows better than I here. Do you know what you are afraid he will damage? Feel free not to answer.
Perhaps he has never had the chance to be trusted. There will be a place for him and he is allowed to find his way out of dysfunction and into a healthier state. He'll always have a place. He can change. He's holding a lot and trying to figure out how to safely let it go in a way that works for him. I think when we don't have the spot to release the anger it can turn inwards in a big way. If this resonates, you don't deserve all of that anger directed at you.
This is where the boxing came to mind for me. If you can find any shrivel of anger and direct it outwards in a safe-ish way.
I would be careful about diagnoses in general. Is there a possibility for more frequent therapy sessions, or any free services your T might know of and recommend for you? Awesome job getting to this point. It can be utterly nasty stuff. Keep at it. Hope your session went okay.

 

[AngelKeeperJ]

I see good things here....You are 21 years old. It is a fact that your brain is not fully matured. That works in your favor. You are smart and you aren't giving up. There is hope. You are not a bad person and you deserve the BEST that life has to offer.

 

[mumstheword]

OP is the one who first introduced personality disorder, here:

I understand you were trying to tell...

I think I'm pretty reactive, with my own charge around the bpd diagnosis due to more trauma, neglect and mistreatment dolled our to me at the local hospital (I think I've mentioned this on other threads) and an astounding lack of trauma-informed care here at our local hospital. So I'm happy to gracefully bow out after that admission. I just think Jameson would really benefit from checking out Pete Walker's material really. That was my agenda. So there, I'm being transparent.

 

[Deleted member 39476]

Ah good you took a test already. It’ll be interesting what it spits out.

Basic rundown I got was "these issues are very complex, there seems to be a lot of contradictions, the things that were hinted at before are now much clearer." My T put a lot of emphasis on "this is very very complex stuff and is going to take a long time to treat." I asked him what he thought I have, and he specifically avoided naming anything but said something like "you have traits from a few different personality disorders, severe complex ptsd, in general a very complex deal with a lot of different and apparently contradictory elements". In my opinion he just doesn't like naming names because his focus is on how I'm feeling and he doesn't think giving it a specific name is that important, but if I were to interpret it its just some pretty intense borderline. I don't know how else you would explain the crazy amount of instability and contradictions. Above that he said that the test revealed some patterns that he hadn't noticed before, and that are helpful in therapy, but those are very specific.

Personally? I'd be putting my money on Complex-ptsd, as by its very nature it's "complex" hence the name, which certainly can, and frequently encompasses traits of bpd. I think you're a little too honest and self aware to be a straight up bpd, which in my opinion is usually undiagnosed or misdiagnosed complex-ptsd anyway. A good way to assess this for yourself would be to get hold of Pete Walker's book Complex PTSD from surviving to thriving.

complex ptsd is my "official" diagnosis. I read a few of pete walkers articles and I like his stuff, I will read his book eventually.

For someone who is dissociating 24/7, you are concentrating, reading and writing quite well. I can't do that while dissociating.

My therapist and everyone here point out all the time that it doesn't seem like I'm dissociating because I can write and speak clearly. In my personal experience, I am very depersonalized nearly 24/7, the feeling of being empty, being disconnected from my own body, looking at the world as if through fog or a pane of glass, feeling as though I am not real, or my surroundings are not real, and in general feeling disconnected from my environment is severe. I can't think clearly in general, my best explanation as to why I can speak/write clearly is because A) My other main defense mechanism besides dissociating is intellectualizing, so I can think but not feel B) I have a reactive personality, its easy for me to answer a question or react to a statement but not easy for me to just write a personal letter or say what I feel. In general my thinking is extremely scattered.

If the breakup was the instigation for this latest 'crash', but the unresolved trauma is separate, that's different.

The breakup is what took me from living life at a 4/10 to living life at a 1/10, its what got me into therapy because it derailed me so badly. One of the first things I figured out in therapy is that I had attachment trauma, leading me to become very strongly and very quickly attached. From my understanding my main trauma happened before I can remember, probably when I was not even a year old. We can only extrapolate as to what happened based on how I act, and I probably just had numerous bad experiences being mistreated by my mother. Presumably all of that came to a really awful climax when she left, leaving me with a really awful internal conflict, me both wanting her to be gone, while also losing my mother. Lots of things happened after that but all of them are little T, dying pets, getting lost, breakups, rejections, firings, etc. Besides what happened between me and my mother the other things are only significant because they play on it in a complex way, rather than being significant on their own.

Hmm. I guess I was wondering if one approach feels less pressured.
This is where the boxing came to mind for me. If you can find any shrivel of anger and direct it outwards in a safe-ish way.
I would be careful about diagnoses in general. Is there a possibility for more frequent therapy sessions, or any free services your T might know of and recommend for you? Awesome job getting to this point. It can be utterly nasty stuff. Keep at it. Hope your session went okay.

At this point it's not really relevant which one is less pressured, I cannot do any trauma processing do to my coping mechanisms completely stopping me from feeling anything. It's basically try to put myself back together indefinitely, can't do very much without being a whole person. If I can put my personality back together then it will probably be trauma processing. I have serious problems with retraumatization though so only time will tell I suppose. The "integration will damage everything" thing is just a fear. I am terrified that in order for there to be a coherent person made out of what I am now, either the monster part would have to be removed somehow, or every other part would be corrupted by it. This kind of mutual fear and distrust internally in a lot of ways is the root of my problems I think. I would love to go more frequently, right now I only go twice a month, but I am already on disability benefits because I can't work anymore, and 2 sessions a month is literally my entire income because I go for hour and a half sessions. Right now I live with my father and don't pay any bills besides my phone bill and therapy, and I lose $55 a month even if I literally make no purchases. There are places I could get free therapy but right now I'm grinding through really complicated issues with one of the best therapists in my city, I don't think there would be any real advantage in also seeing someone else.

I just think Jameson would really benefit from checking out Pete Walker's material really. That was my agenda. So there, I'm being transparent.

I like pete a lot I actually didn't even know he had a book. I've read a lot of the stuff on his website and it resonates with me.

PS: Sorry for the gigantic walls of text where I try to respond to everyone who left me a comment. It's just easier to formulate responses that way.

 

[Hojay]

Alright, so that sounds like you got some rudimentary answers. It's not uncommon for therapists to avoid giving, naming, or working off a diagnosis. It could keep the patient from taking responsibility for their own actions and reactions, is just one of the reasons.

"this is very very complex stuff and is going to take a long time to treat."

If you're really quoting your therapist here, I'd have to wonder if he is somehow reinforcing and enabling your idea that your problems are exceptional and unique.

"you have traits from a few different personality disorders, severe complex ptsd, in general a very complex deal with a lot of different and apparently contradictory elements".

Here as well. And this could be a reason why you've rubbed some people the wrong way on here. cPTSD is by definition severe, or else it would not be cPTSD. The c, as you know, stands for "complex" so, by definition, anyone suffering from it has a "very complex deal" going on.

some pretty intense borderline

And here also, BPD is BPD because it's a "pretty intense" manifestation of otherwise common behavioral traits or symptoms in response to life events. To call your case, "pretty intense" reinforces your idea that you are somehow unique and separate, not only from the normal population, but from those who suffer from BPD as well.

You've talked about Catch 22s before, and one I can see here is that you seem to believe that if someone was able to cope and heal, or certain treatments you've dismissed have worked for them, their disorder was not as bad as yours. In other words, "if the disorder was treatable, the disorder was not as bad or complex in the first place." Perhaps you resist treatment and advice because you're afraid applying yourself to them would mean your pain and experience is invalidated, as per that Catch 22 up there? It could also be an explanation why your T uses terms like "very very complex stuff" and "severe cPTSD"--he's trying to validate your experience, but isn't seeing that by hyperbolizing your case, he's reinforcing your cognitive distortions.

 

[Deleted member 39476]

You've talked about Catch 22s before, and one I can see here is that you seem to believe that if someone was able to cope and heal, or certain treatments you've dismissed have worked for them, their disorder was not as bad as yours. In other words, "if the disorder was treatable, the disorder was not as bad or complex in the first place." Perhaps you resist treatment and advice because you're afraid applying yourself to them would mean your pain and experience is invalidated, as per that Catch 22 up there? It could also be an explanation why your T uses terms like "very very complex stuff" and "severe cPTSD"--he's trying to validate your experience, but isn't seeing that by hyperbolizing your case, he's reinforcing your cognitive distortions.

I'm not comparing my symptoms to anyone else here, this is just absurd. It's a matter of honesty and severity, some people can hold jobs with BPD, some people can hold relationships. I am mostly disabled by it right now, so its a very intense case, it is extremely difficult to treat, so it is a very complex case. I think its totally absurd to suggest I'm delegitimizing anybody else's problems, if I say "I cannot use this because of my extensive issues" it's not saying that their issues are not severe, it's saying in my case I cannot use them. It's also not hyperbolizing my case, its not a cognitive distortion. Any illness that has the potential to cripple someone for years if not forever and is also very resistant to treatment is a severe complex case, that's just realism. He didn't it was untreatable just that it would be difficult, expensive, risky, and take a long time, all things that are completely true. You're misunderstanding the point about complexity too, by complexity its not just necessarily "A complex web of traumas" its "some combination of different variables that make it very challenging to treat." Resisting treatment is still complexity.

 

[Hojay]

It's a matter of honesty and severity, some people can hold jobs with BPD, some people can hold relationships.

...and some can sit at a computer, intellectualize, express themselves, and go to therapy on a consistent basis. Others can't by virtue of BPD. So what's your point? This confirms what I was saying, you believe that "if XYZ is the case, the disorder wasn't/isn't as bad in the first place."

it is extremely difficult to treat, so it is a very complex case.

cPTSD and BPD are always and without fail very complex and hard to treat. The term "severe" is misplaced in the realm of psychiatrics. It's inherently subjective and no useful tool for establishing treatment strategies.

Any illness that has the potential to cripple someone for years if not forever and is also very resistant to treatment is a severe complex case, that's just realism.

My point exactly, anyone who suffers from cPTSD or BPD is a severe and complex case, even if only by their own estimation. It's not just you.

You're misunderstanding the point about complexity too, by complexity its not just necessarily "A complex web of traumas" its "some combination of different variables that make it very challenging to treat."

No, I got it alright. The word "complex" in cPTSD does not necessarily refer to a complex set of traumas but a complex combination of acquired behaviors and belief systems that complicate its diagnosis, treatment, and outlook.

Your level of anger and defensiveness makes me think I hit a nerve. It seems you really do want to be validated in being an exceptional case. I can't do that for you. And you might have come to the wrong place to look for it. There are people on here who have seen, experienced, and overcome things the likes of which you cannot imagine. They can sit in compassion with you, but I doubt anyone will bow down in awe for what you're experiencing. They've been there, done that.

You've got a tribe here, people who have and are experiencing EXACTLY what you are with the EXACT same degree of complexity and severity in some cases. Some people take comfort in seeing they're not alone, it gives them hope and a way in for compassion for self and others. Other people feel invalidated by it.

And just to make sure, I'm not invalidating your experience. I believe you when you say it is crippling, bleak, and impossible to cope with at times. That's very real. For you, and everyone else suffering from it.

 

[Deleted member 39476]

Others can't by virtue of BPD.
inherently subjective
anyone who suffers even if only by their own estimation. It's not just you.

an exceptional case There are people on here who have seen, experienced, and overcome things the likes of which you cannot imagine.but I doubt anyone will bow down in awe for what you're experiencing. They've been there

You've got a tribe here, people

"Other people also have it bad"

k?

 

[Deleted member 28403]

"Other people also have it bad"

k?

Seemed to be pointed at the validation thing, so sorta missed the point