"I must have all available information to be safe"

[HealingMama]

I thought this was a military thing because J sometimes asks a thousand questions if we're going somewhere new or out of town. He does it a lot. Drives me nuts sometimes because I don't always have the answers. And "I don't know, isn't an answer".

We deal with this all the time so thanks for posting. Do you feel that it happens more when you're symptomatic?

Definitely happens more when I am symptomatic. If I am triggered this is one of the main ways I cope.

 

[LuckiLee]

Same with J.

 

[Tinyflame]

Do you feel that it happens more when you're symptomatic?

Yes,, definitely.

this is one of the main ways I cope.

Interesting. I never thought of it as coping, I always thought it was being symptomatic (though there are times it is warranted or things just wouldn't get completed), and I can't tell how much I'm symptomatic until I'm not as symptomatic (if that makes sense).

 

[HealingMama]

Yes,, definitely.

Interesting. I never thought of it as coping, I always thought it was being symptomatic (though there are times it is warranted or things just wouldn't get completed), and I can't tell how much I'm symptomatic until I'm not as symptomatic (if that makes sense).

Well I can't speak for others, but I think for me, I get anxious about unpredictability, the unknown, or situations working out beyond my control, and cope by trying to get as much information as possible.

I do this in my relationship too, if things are not going well I compulsively research the situation, ask a lot of questions, etc.

 

[Muttly]

Heh, I might be having an aha moment. I mean, I feel sort of dumb at the moment, because I guess I assumed that everyone was like this. And when I think about it, my closest friends aren't. That's why they drive me crazy sometimes. They seem to be ok with not having all the information. I

I think for me, I get anxious about unpredictability, the unknown, or situations working out beyond my control, and cope by trying to get as much information as possible.

Yes. And I guess that's the hyper-vigilance. The more I know, the more I can have plans and backup plans and backup plans for the backup plans...

 

[Friday]

I’m the other way ‘round; if someone withholds information I need in order to make an informed decision, or to protect those in my charge? They’re dead to me. At best.

I view it as their responsibility to present that info, not mine to interrogate for it. If I’ve reached the point where I’m interrogating someone for information I need? We’re past simply being done, we’re now enemies. And why the f*ck would I believe anything an enemy has to tell me?

I’ve only ever broken that rule once, and I lived to regret it, so it’s not a rule I’m interested in changing.

***

Conversely? If someone demands information they have no right to, as if they did? I have a whole helluva lot more tolerance for that kind of blatant disrespect, as I don’t end the relationship on the spot, I “just” stop volunteering any information I would otherwise have shared by choice in addition to refusing their demands. IE the relationship isn’t over, but the intimacy is.

Neither of which means I have a problem with questions, curiosity, or enthusiasm. I just have little tolerance for disrespect, and none at all for betrayal.

 

[Tinyflame]

I know it's entirely different as a different person, and civilian, but @Friday were you left feeling shame, or regret you disclosed, mortification, or something else (anger, indifference)? Did you fear bumping in to them, or how did you deal with it when you needed info? Did you second guess your ability to read character, or question yourself and capabilities if you trusted? Did you question your perspective, or doubt whether they felt it was important and therefore were indifferent, and therefore wasn't a big deal to them? (Thank you.)

ETA, I forgot for the life of me what this thread was even called lol. I guess it's not across the board I need info, only if it's relevant to what I have to do, or the environment in which I have to do it. Sometimes it's physical, because just accomplishing A-> B -> C is a lot harder for me than many. As @FauxLiz said (I think?) it kind of beats the spontanaity out of you. (I know an unsafe feeling isn't a big pblm for you specifically, so just hoping to understand. I'm pretty sure the general unsafe feeling is triggers or just 'ye old amygdala hijacking'.) Hope that's ok to ask- not meaning to derail thread.

 

[Friday]

I know it's entirely different as a different person, and civilian, but @Friday were you left feeling shame, or regret you disclosed, mortification, or something else (anger, indifference)? Did you fear bumping in to them, or how did you deal with it when you needed info? Did you second guess your ability to read character, or question yourself and capabilities if you trusted? Did you question your perspective, or doubt whether they felt it was important and therefore were indifferent, and therefore wasn't a big deal to them? (Thank you.)

I’m sorry… but this just isn’t parsing in how it relates to whose responsibility it is to get/give info inside of a relationship?

IE @HealingMama views it as hers to seek it out, even if the other person not only doesn’t want to give it but she has to totally ignore their boundaries in order to attempt to acquire it; whilst I’m on the opposite side of the spectrum, if they don’t supply anything/everything I need to know -without my asking- (&/or worse are withholding info I need in order to keep me&mine as safe possible) we’re done.

((To be fair, I hold myself to the same standard; It’s my responsibility to give those in my circle the information they need in order to make decisions / react&respond in the best way possible. Similarly, once that’s happened? Their decisions are on them, the same way that my decisions are on me. It’s only when someone withholds info, whether in an attempt to manipulate those decisions/actions or not, the the responsibility backflows to the person who isn’t giving the necessary information to those who need it.))

Totally willing to kick it around inside my diary, rather than hijacking this thread.

The connection may be obvious & I just haven’t had enough coffee, so I’m just not seeing it. Either way, I’d need you to connect the dots for me.

Definitely happens more when I am symptomatic. If I am triggered this is one of the main ways I cope.

& @LuckiLee

I definitely RUN information back and forth with people -multiple times- the more stressed I am, or the more important -or out of the ordinary- the thing is.

Info we’ve totally discussed and thrashed out gets at least 2 run throughs prior to “starting”…. As long as everyone agrees on all points? It’s fast and painless. Where it gets sticky is when there is any difference or disagreement.

Spoiler: What running info looks like

ABCDEFGHIJKLMNOP? (Me)
ABCDEFJHIJKLMNOP. (Them)
A. D. G. N.
A. D. G. N.
Alright! Let’s do it!

The whole thing, with every point.
The most important points that the other points hinge on.

((so if there’s a change in plan -and there is almost ALWAYS a change in plan- we know where we’re going to be regrouping / what’s important to keep running. As the details can change, but the big points either don’t change, or need discussion about how to change.))

^^^ That’s definitely a military thing, as it was the normal way to do things since I was a kid, in a military family, with all my friends -also military brats- also doing the same run through. It only became far more important, and codified, once I grew up, and those were mission briefings, ceilings/ROE, rally points, etc; and checking the person’s gear in front of you, whilst the person behind you checks yours. It’s also similar to how sports teams operate; gameplan, major points, go. <<< It’s not abnormal to find a similar sort of exchange in non-military households, it’s just not as formalized.

If there’s any variation in either run though? BIG heated discussion follows. Because those SHOULD HAVE been worked out prior to the final check before go. New information & disagreements showing up right before things start? Is a big no-no. Just not in the same universe as withholding info. Things are GOING to change once we start, if things start changjng before we start? Ensue clusterf*ck. Who the hell has screwed up so badly we’re not on the same page THIS close to “go”?!? >.<

ABCDEFGHIJKLMNOP?
ACDEFGHJKLMNP.
???

ADGN?
BCJP.
???

Most of the time, though, whether 7 seconds of ABC? XYZ? (Homework, lunch, bus pass? Meet at George’s after school?) or whatever just flies back and forth with no alteration, or much attention paid. And any change in plan is absorbed easily, as long as it’s said again, and understood as equally viable. (Homework, lunch, bus pass? // No homework, buying lunch, catching a ride with Sam. Meet at Michael’s. // Okay. No homework, here’s lunch money, riding with Sam. See you at Michael’s!)

It’s the out of the ordinary, that get the BIG run throughs, and a helluva lot of back and forth prior to that.

 

[HealingMama]

I'd like to add that I don't intellectually view information as mine to have even when it violates someone else's boundaries. It's more like, safety becomes the primary goal, and I don't always consider that other people have needs too, in pursuing my own safety.

And in the example here, which is really silly and embarrassing so I haven't articulated it, the other person put up a wall and I had an anxiety attack over it. I wanted my way, but the reason I wanted my way was to feel safe.

I guess knowing so many people with ADHD I would struggle to figure out what is withholding on purpose vs ADHD problems in communication. Some people don't realize they withheld information, and if you don't ask the perfect question to draw out the information it's just in their head somewhere and they don't mean to keep it there.

In the example that spawned this thread it was definitely "you have info I feel like I need and won't give it to me."

 

[Tinyflame]

@Friday , I thank you, it's ok, and I also relate to running info and your spoiler and this:

I definitely RUN information back and forth with people -multiple times- the more stressed I am, or the more important -or out of the ordinary- the thing is.

Actually, been thinking that my questions are just borne out of symptomolgy, not usefulness, if that makes sense? Bringing forward my own head and history.

It's more like, safety becomes the primary goal, and I don't always consider that other people have needs too, in pursuing my own safety.

^^ Me too. I think that might be part of what makes ptsd appear very selfish, and in that way it is, but without intention to be.

I would struggle to figure out what is withholding on purpose vs ADHD problems in communication. Some people don't realize they withheld information, and if you don't ask the perfect question to draw out the information it's just in their head somewhere and they don't mean to keep it there.

^^ I think (only speaking for myself) that this is very much like what @recoveringfromptsd spoke about as 'situational uncertainty', and how to overcome it. I am not sure if this is helpful @HealingMama , but I was thinking it could have many points on it (like a star) ffrom which we could tackle it:

1. How can we down-regulate, and reduce the stress cup? Because that doesn't bode well for calm or clear thinkng. It also means taking care of ourselves better.
2. What portion of this is our past experiences? Or what portion of our past experiences is assigning meaning to this? So a reality check or teasing apart.
3. How well are we communicating? Are we taking things personally? Is our message one of mutual respect, care, trust?
4. How much are we assuming unconditional positive regard for the other person, or people, or them for us? Are we operating from a place of feeling they wouldn't want to harm, or better still is their evidence of wanting to help?
5. Are we trying (even unintentionally), to have others bend to our needs that come from a place of trauma, instead of pushing a bit 'out' of our past? (This is where communicating also might help.)
6. Are we hyperfocusing on the negative or a negative aspect, and not seeing a bigger picture?
7. What are also our strengths? Are we kind? Do we care about others? Can we practise gratitude? Can we be respectful, are we willing to seek a different way? And use those instead of focusing on what isn't us, or where we are struggling?
8. Can we get a health(ier) balance of processing, but also being present in today (vs feeling like it's 1970/ 1980/ 1990 , 2020, whatever.)
Etc.

I am sure there are more, and if this isn't helpful please disregard. I find trauma makes for a sort of panic- even a frantic panic for safety, or security, and that can feel like it needs to be solved a.s.a.p. (due to experiences/ history). But it may be more realistic-more possible- to identify which parts are causing the distress, and more importantly why. Versus thinking, 'if' I had x,y, z it would 'solve' it (and there always comes up something else to solve, if trauma or triggers keep popping up). Maybe solving it has more to do with understanding what else is possible, using communication, to help. Such as, do you need reassurance? Or an alternate plan? Or just to manage waiting to see, or to put your trust in someone beyond yourself?

(P.S, You don't usually hear this emphasized but I've heard it said with AD(H)D people are exquisitely sensitive. That's a Big Good Thing. You can honor that in yourself, and others. )

Thank you for your thread.

 

[Friday]

I guess knowing so many people with ADHD I would struggle to figure out what is withholding on purpose vs ADHD problems in communication.

To me, it doesn’t matter. The allowances I make for that, or any other disorder or condition? Don’t cross my hard limits. But then, I have ADHD, too.

I DGAF what motivates someone to knowingly -without telling me- put me&mine lives in danger. They do that? We’re through. End of story.

- My hard limits? Are nonnegotiable.
- My soft limits have a variable amount of wiggle room… from miles, to molecules short of being a hard limit.