I Wish I Had Faith - God Or Myself?

[anthony]

Cathy, I am not angry about any of this, not even flustered. This is opinionated discussion... I don't see a god or devil, don't believe they even exist. Some people have died for a short period, then returned, the things they say vary so much that no definative proof can be found, and then the more detailed aspect is that when asked what they believe in prior to death, the one's who believe in christianity and so forth, see a bright light or something like that, varies once again between them all, which has been directly associated to each person being in that situation have literally believed what they wanted to believe death was prior to the near death experience, ie. those who seen a white light always believed one existed, thus the brain told them what they have already made believed, and the list goes on and on with all the different things people see, or think they see in those experiences, and you will more often than not find the person had those thoughts prior to the near death, so their mind simply gave them what they had already pictured and put together, but only occurred in their mind, didn't really happen.

There is no definative proof either way! It is about beliefs, about faith. You believe there is a god, I don't believe that. You have faith in some higher power helping you in life, I don't, and see that the only person who can help anyone is themself.

 

[goingonhope]

Cookie.....

i double dirty dog dare you to humble yourself and ask God himself to show you He is real.

Cookie, I'm going to borrow this sugg. for myself, bc I do believe in God and yet have had faith and lost it....found it again and lost it again....and so forth.

I'm struggling these days in relations. with God, and yet I believe and do have faith that yes, if I do ask him to show me he is real, and present, he will and my faith struggle will be over for as long as I continue to accept God.

Your post reminded me of this option, cookie. I had completely forgotton.

Once when I was convinced that I was totally unlovable and unworthy of God, .........Now mind you I had previously known little about God, nor recognized and acknowledged many experiences of God, a very kind man said that if you don't believe that God loves you, ask him to show you that he loves you.

I did this repeatedly and in his time, God soon showed me how very much he loves me. For a long time, I have cont. to ask and he responded by showing me in many ways.

It wasn't until, I gave up on my devot. disciplines and walked away that sometime afterwards my perspective of life and its meaning all shifted into a downward spiral, life got much tougher to live, and I began in my, (perhaps small, perhaps some larger) but ways none-the-less of perpetuating unneccessary suffering for myself and others.

I know all strength and loving power comes from God, and yet my thoughts and head will persistantly, work-overtime to trick me.

So again, cookie, I'll be borrowing this little prayer and be asking it, bc I now can spot a good thing when I see it.

And, really cookie, I want my faith back. And know that God wants this and will respond. So thanks for posting and sharing with us your faith.

Hope

 

[mac]

I notice a lot of people base their faith that God loves them by how much money or wealth they acquire in life. Makes me wonder...

Essentially, our body's life, just like any other animal or organism, is nothing more than chemical reactions taking place at any second in time. I would say that it is possible to break it down mathematically. In the past, man did not understand or have such knowledge as he does today, therefore its man's instinct to explain things that are not understandable in a divine light to fill in the pieces of the puzzle. Superstitions are also born from such ignorance. I don't know what difference it would really make, but I do wish I believed in God; I guess it would give me something to look forward to when I die.

 

[Linda]

I am an atheist, and do not feel the need for religion - not any more. No more faith after what happened in my country many years ago. The religion does not provide explanation for what's going on around, and the faith is not based on knowledge, so I can not accept it.
But I do have a faith in myself. I Think that the life is sometimes hard, but it is possible to handle it. I am a natural fighter, a daughter and a grand-daughter of fighters, and I know that someday things will be all right for me. I know it, althoug sometimes do nod feel like this.

 

[cookie]

mac, I don't even know anyone really wealthy personally. as a matter of fact, most of our church is made up of lower middle class, a few upper middle, and a few poor. we are all the same in God's eyes. i have never had a lot of money. as a matter of fact, if I write out a budget, we can't meet it, but somehow God keeps helping me out when I need it. and I know that He loves me. do you know in the Bible it speaks of how hard it is for a rich man to get into heaven.(about as easy as a camel passing through the eye of a needle) because many put their faith in their money instead of Him.

I also have a very good understanding of science. Do you know that charles darwin based his THEORY of evolution on one species of bird, on one island, and that he basically said it was full of holes himself before he died? Not claiming he converted, that didn't happen, but evolution is just a theory, and a poor one at that. look at the mechanics of the smallest organism,
I feel that science and God actually go hand in hand, and there are several christian men and women who are also scientists, lol.(and I'm not superstitious) whether or not you have faith or believe in God is your own business, I would love for you to, only for your own benefit, but would never ram it down your throat. however, not having faith in God yourself, how do you know what people base their faith on, and they are just all ignorant of science? I know in whom I have believed and i trust in him. what if you are right? We will both be dirt, and I will be none the wiser, lol. What if i'm right? where will we be then? I want everybody to be in heaven some day, and so does He, but I can't force you, and He won't.

 

[mac]

what if you are right? we will both be dirt, and i will be none the wiser, lol. what if i'm right? where will we be then?

I have to admit that is a good point.

One thing I have noticed is that those who believe in any sort of religion generally have a mental edge over those that don't. It almost seems like a survival instict ingrained into the mind of a human. I guess that's why they say there's no aethiest's in a fox hole during an attack. Reality is a big slap in the face though!

 

[goingonhope]

Question ???

how do you know what people base their faith on, and they are just all ignorant of science?

Struggling to keep this simple. In finding and reading and participating in this thread I have become a obsessive mess over personlizing one simple statement, that being the appearance of an assumption.

Mac are you simply making the statement that you

"notice a lot of people base their faith that God loves them by how much money or wealth they acquire in life. Makes me wonder..."

or are you assuming that this has anything whatsoever to do with what I build and have built my faith upon? Because, if so? It in fact highly contradicts what I do indeed build my faith upon.

Get me out of here. I'm too sensitive! I don't belong here on this thread and tonight see threads such as these as nothing but the invitation for judgement, assumptions, fear and ill-feeling.

We've touched on everything from opinions to faiths to experiences and now we've introduced reality. All of which don't even mean the same thing; in fact defined very differently. The two closest in the definition are 'opinion' and 'faith'. And yet, still different, as faith 'kicks opinion up a notch' while including things like trust, reliance, conviction.

This is a dangerous thread for me to leave myself vulnerable. So, Bless and best wishes to you'all and have a goodnight.

 

[BassistKara]

Im personally an atheist, but have many friends who are religious....
I just wanted to add that i think if people had as much love for/faith in themselves as they do for "god" the world would most likely be an even slightly better place...
I also tend to find the whole thing very patriarchial, cult like and close minded.

 

[cookie]

too many people love themselves more than anybody else already. hence people thinking it's ok to just take what they want from others-physical or emotional. we are to love everyone as much as ourselves, so we are also to love ourselves, but not to esteem ourselves higher than another.

how can you say that religion is close-minded? when you have not been a part of it? what do you site for evidence? not denying that there are some cults and close-minded people out there,(I once knew a man that was so narrow-minded, he could look through a keyhole with both eyes open!) in the name of religion, but there are many that know their mission in life is just to live, and share God's love, hopefully to show others the way. i could say that i think all athiests are closed-minded too, but it wouldn't be true, because people are individuals, and you can't really lump us into a category like that.

by the way, it is hard to share these things with y'all not knowing the tone of my voice, lol. i am not angry, or feeling argumentative, rather happy to see people thinking on these things.
cathy

 

[Nam]

Faith is available to you whenever you want it. Sure, I had moments when I thought for sure He abandoned me, left me to whither and die....but it was I that rejected Him. No matter how angry, how anti-religious you are, He's still there for you. I don't go to church or read the Bible. I don't go to Sunday School, but I talk with Him everyday. I find that it helps to talk with Him about things that I can't talk with anyone else. Since He knows me inside and out, there's no point in lying or embellishing or down playing....I just say it. For some reason it makes me feel better.

 

[beatle_bailey]

boy can I relate to that

at one time I believed so much it scared me cuz I was headed to hell {still may be } ,, ,, another time I hated God and any thing to do with him ,, ,,
,, But mostly I hated me and every thing I had become ,, ,, ,, much later I feel very different ,, I am OK with God and even more I am OK with who and what I have become since I quit all the drinking an druging ,, Beatle

PS,, hang on Brother

 

[anthony]

I also tend to find the whole thing very patriarchial, cult like and close minded.

I totally agree, in that religion is a form of cult, just seems an acceptable one. Seventh Day Adventists are known to be cultish, yet accepted. Scientology the same, yet accepted for some silly reason. Where does the line get drawn at cultish behaviour vs. commonsense where people really do think for themselves?

however, not having faith in God yourself, how do you know what people base their faith on, and they are just all ignorant of science?

A nice selling point Cathy, but that as mentioned above, is cult like behaviour IMHO. Any church who accepts such statements like what you just made, is cult orientated, not free thinking. If you as a Christian are telling me that any person who doesn't have faith in God must be ignorant fo science... please do explain, because I really do want to hear the cult logic to this one.

Beliefs and faith are personal, nothing to do with god. Believing in god in one thing, believing in yourself another. Believing in whether the colour pink is actually pink is another belief. Believing grass is green, is a living organism, and everything in life itself, is all personal, and not related to god or any other religious icon. These are facts of science, not of god or relation of science to god or any other being. Science contains proven and unproven theories. God, is an unproven theory, just like life after death. There are no FACTS to this, only personal beliefs and personal faith. What another believes or has faith has no bearing on any other person.

Right vs. wrong has nothing to do with faith; beliefs yes, faith no. Plenty of people who believe in god commit crimes, plenty of people who don't commit crimes. Why? Because they believed they could get away with it! They believed it was the right thing to do at that time! They believed it was the wrong thing to do, but choose to do it anyway! All personal beliefs, along with hundreds, if not thousands more.

Spiritual belief becomes part of a person overall beliefs, but when it becomes cultish, is when a persons overall beliefs are nothing other than spiritual. A minister uses commonsense in life, and does not believe 100% in God being that this mystical all powerful entity can fix anything. A minister knows that if he cuts his wrists with a knife, he will bleed out and die, and God is not going to help. So even the smartest minister would not have 100% faith in God to save them or take care of them, because if they did, it would be cultish, not religious.

One thing I have noticed is that those who believe in any sort of religion generally have a mental edge over those that don't.

I must actually disagree with this, because with what I see from working with people every day, is that those who attempt to put all their faith in God or other religious entity, don't actually do as well as another who gives themself faith, and believes in themself, and believes they can beat what they have. Sorry, but those I work with who are strong in religion don't do as well as those who aren't strong in religion, because they are often more determined to fight for their themselves, opposed to sitting around waiting for some belief to come save or help them. I must say, factually looking at people that I help, you couldn't be further from the truth mac.

Those who strongly believe in religion might put on a brave face, but when they look for therapy, that face doesn't cut the mustard anymore, and they fall apart, all often doubting their beliefs in God or other religion, because they haven't helped them as yet.