Ignoring

[Crow]

@Chava closed or deleted....Either is good. And I agree with you and appreciate @Rumors pinpointing the core issue.

 

[Rumors]

I am certainly not trying to beat a dead horse, however I don't understand why it is allowed? It actually makes me angry a bit bc I feel like there are things members do, me included, that are less toxic that are called to point. We have threads about avoiding gas lighting and what it is and how it is a form of abuse but we allow it to continue here???
I am not sorry for posting on this thread what I feel like is honest bc if we aren't at least honest then we all walk around thinking that behavior is acceptable. I know that there is a certain amount that is acceptable, but the continuous use of it I feel like is dangerous. Certainly I don't write the rules here and my intent is NOT to hurt anyone ever. That is why I blocked the user. But my issue, if you will, is why it is continuously allowed and has been since inception without even pointing the behavior out as what it is.
Anyway, I am sorry of I have offended anyone, especially you @CrowFeather. It wasn't my intent. I don't feel as if I have said anything but the truth and if you read much of my past posts with the user you will find I have tried to have empathy and am not without compassion but the user exhibits dangerous intent which we have been warned about in other threads as it pertains to gas lighting.

 

[Crow]

@Rumors no offense here. I totally agree with you. Thank you for voicing it so well.

 

[Teasel]

I read an article @CrowFeather posted recently on gaslighting. The thing that really struck me was that it is possible for someone to gaslight you without being fully aware of the harm they are doing.
I've always struggled with holding on to both the knowledge that my partner is basically good with thinking that his gas lighting behaviour must mean he was heartlessly and deliberately trying to destroy me.

I still think he is wrong - that he has wrong ideas about what us acceptable behaviour. That he has very troubling views on the place of women and gas treated me very badly. But I'm no longer thinking that just because I can see good things about him, that it can't also be true he's gaslighted me.

 

[Queen Boudica]

That is just my opinion.... I am just speaking honestly. I certainly do not have all of the answers, but I will avoid further contact with such participants moving forward bc I view them as manipulative.

Couldn't agree with you more. The gaslighting needs to be pointed out though as perhaps others are more vulnerable, to this manipulation and it could harm other members.

 

[joeylittle]

But my issue, if you will, is why it is continuously allowed and has been since inception without even pointing the behavior out as what it is.

I can respond to this.

Posters throughout contentious threads have articulated why and how their own words are being used against them, and when there is apparent re-writing of history, by anyone, you can find another post addressing it. What I think you are looking for (and you should tell me if I'm wrong) is a clear, public warning against an OP in which we state that gaslighting is not allowed.

MyPTSD can't do that - and here's why. Gaslighting in full effect requires there to be an individual or individuals who are being successfully 'conned', convinced - people who are buying into a calculated attempt to re-write events.

I can vouch for myself and staff: no-one is missing a beat, here. I've seen individuals struggling with their own triggers. I've seen highly activated, upset posting. I've seen extreme cognitive distortion and the mis-steps that arise as part of that. I've seen these things on the part of every poster in this thread, to one degree or another.

This is not the first time the board has been in this situation - I can personally recall three times in my own experience since I've joined, and I've read of many other sequences of events in past, archived threads.

What has not occurred is a direct personal attack against a member. That would be actionable. But uncomfortable discourse, misunderstanding, blame, anger, even badly hurt feelings - these are all going to come to this forum from time to time, in greater and lesser degree.

The judgement call - and I've seen it employed by admins and staff before - is in deciding when enough has been enough. This isn't something that is ever done in a vacuum. Staff actively discuss all the current stressors on the board, and having that variety of voices keeps this place from suffering from a single-minded kind of leadership.

Threads like this are actually very important, because they allow the community to talk about their concerns, and how those things might be best addressed by the leadership. I'm deeply and sincerely appreciative of everyone's time on this thread, and agree it has nearly run it's course, but would like to make sure it's open long enough for other time zones to have a weigh-in, if they'd like.

We have threads about avoiding gas lighting and what it is and how it is a form of abuse but we allow it to continue here???

I guess the most important thing I want you to know is that no-one on the admin/staff side is being gaslit - we are watching and reading how everyone engages in contentious, difficult conversations, and if individual members were not speaking their own minds on the matters involved - if there were members who were allowing themselves to be convinced that they had not said what they said - then there would be a different situation happening. But I don't see anyone allowing themselves to be abused, and there have been no personal attacks made. We do define 'personal attack' quite narrowly but clearly here, and none have occurred.

Remember, also: there's a report button. Use it. You don't have to be certain whether a rule is being broken - we can work that out. If you see something that you question, hit report. It is a large part of how we learn when there is a cumulative problem occurring. When we hear from individuals, we can respond. It also has the advantage of being confidential.

I don't mean this to read as nitpicking the fine print, or avoiding the issue by saying 'well, we don't have a rule precisely against that, so we won't do anything.' We follow the rules, the rules do get adapted over time when needed, and we also use our best judgement based on past and current experience.

As I said above, I do expect to lock the thread when it's run its course, which will be soon. But please, for you @Rumors (since I've addressed you the most here), but also anyone - if you've something to say, that hasn't been said or that you want to share, please keep posting.

 

[EveHarrington]

As someone who has only been posting a few weeks, I assumed this person was very popular and well liked here on the forum because quite a few of their threads are many pages long with lots of other people responding to them.

I have not responded to any of those threads myself, but I think that those of you who have honestly tried to help should be commended for this. I think it's great that there are people here who will take the time to help another in need. It's sort of like do your best to help another, but at that point you have to let it go and trust that the person will take in what you've said and use your feedback to better themselves. If the person subsequently engages in negative behavior, you have the power to not put yourself out there again.

You can learn to regulate online relationships in the same way you regulate real life relationships. If someone crosses a boundary, you have the right to cease contact with this person. That is, "if you gaslight, I will cease contact with you" and so on.

I am not advocating black balling or anything like that, but if people stop responding to these posts, the other person may realize that in order to get support they must behave in a respectful way. The same goes for real life, where someone learns that their behavior isn't desirable and realizes they must change after losing all of their friends, family, and so on.

 

[Friday]

I've never used the ignore function on someone I was angry with, didn't like, or disagreed with. I have used it when reading made me sad.

Those are my issues. I can handle disliking someone, disagreeing with someone, being angry with someone... I cannot handle being sad with someone.

Voila! Acute problem solved. Longer term problems? How to deal with sadness (ugh, no f*cking clue), & how to maintain my own integrity. That one is easier for me. Except in rare circumstances other people have no power over me. Zero, zip, nada, zilch. It's my choice to grant anyone power over me in nearly all cases, as well as what they have power over. My choice to be here grants admin the power to ban me, but that's it. That's the sole power they have over me, and I continuously agree to it, by continuing to come here. I can take that power back by no longer logging in, & voila, no more (exceptionally limited) power over me. Everything else? Everything I learn, do, take from things... That's an active process of my allowing others to influence me. Or not ;)

Other posters? Pfft. Anything I give someone is by choice. If I don't think I have a choice? My issues. I've certainly done that. I've lost my temper at someone, I've gotten emotionally invested in (a)other(s), a whole bunch of things. That's not always a bad thing. Connecting to people allows them to influence us.

Connecting, what & how much influence to allow others to have, even knowing that we're allowing others to influence us... Is something a lot of us struggle with in a lot of different ways. We have PTSD, we tend to struggle with a lot of different things to begin with, and then are in different places in our travels even with the same issues.

I love the ignore function for this reason. It has nothing to do with the person themselves, and everything to do with our own issues. It gives us the space, the time, to be able to do so when we're struggling & our own filters aren't working.

Some people struggle with seeing people as threats, or not liking someone, or anger, or granting too much influence, or sadness, or trust, or, or, or. Those who are struggling with some aspect? Can pop another member on ignore until we've sorted out our own issues or have the head space to be able to attempt to.


Just my 2.02

 

[Chava]

we are watching and reading how everyone engages in contentious, difficult conversations, and if individual members were not speaking their own minds on the matters involved

So we have to follow all the posts to speak our mind, make corrections/clarifications, and/or defend ourselves? Who has the f*cking time? I regret doing too much of that and not replying more to other people in that time. In the end, it was all a waste for me. But, I tried. I see people responding but there is so much straightening things out, so much denial and contradiction, blaming others for triggering her (very subtle gaslighting I'd say because she is good at not directly attacking, probably allows her to stay a "victim" better than very direct divisions and attacks would) and very little willingness on the poster's part to acknowledge this habit (just more subtle in suggestion how others trigger her and a little more quiet). Yes, ignoring will be easier. Just watch for leeching onto new people and tearing them down.

That all being said, I respect your examination of things @joeylittle

 

[Rumors]

Thank you @joeylittle. I guess I had to get that off my chest. I am sure staff is aware, but I do feel like after reading replies from other posters that they were led to believe one thing, but in fact it isn't that way.
Anyway, I appreciate your lengthy reply and I completely honor your rules and judgement. I have no further comment on the subject but to say thank you for allowing me to have an open honest discussion regarding the topic. It feels very good to be able to discuss something this hard without It becoming a slug fest. There is hope in humanity!!! Perhaps gas lighting is my trigger and I need to look further in to that detail. I am certainly not without major issues of my own.
Kindest regards to all...

Edited to add my twisted sense of humor....

 

[Queen Boudica]

what I find concerning and why I pitched in and wish I had never read it in the first place is how can you not respond if someone is actually abusing How Do you ignore that?

 

[Friday]

Was going to ETA this... But I'm already 50 words instead of 5 today :wtf:

For anyone who feels too guilty (or any other version of very bad things) to ignore someone? Clearly, you're reading this / I'm not already on ignore...so ignore me. Just for a day (week, month, forever... Or an hour). Pop me on ignore, just because you can. And it's totally safe to. I not only don't care, won't be hurt by it, but am inviting you to :D Test out the function. We're words on paper. Pixels whirling in cyberspace. Anything I write will still be here in a day (week, month, hour).