Sexual Assault Im Not Sure If I Can Call It Sexual Assault ??

[Casey_03]

And maybe if I hadn't been drinking I would have been able to get home by myself all right.

In the future, be sure that if you are drinking, you have friends with you who will look out for you and make sure you're okay. OR if you have a problem controlling you're drinking once you start, stop drinking for a while.

Anybody who has a background of trauma or abuse, in my opinion, should give up drinking. It sounds kind of extreme to say that, but alcohol really f*cks with people who've been abused in any way. I wish I had never started drinking when I was younger. It just made my problems worse and gave me a decade of more trauma. (Not saying that is the case with you, but be aware that you are more vulnerable to bad things happening when you're drinking because of your history)

 

[heyheyhey]

I have in the past definitely slept with people I didn't want to but I did it anyways but it was more cons...

Yeah, but you don't know what was happening in your mind when you did get in the car - maybe you thought he was guiding you to a taxi or something? Or maybe he said something like "I'll take you home". Sometimes people with abuse and trauma histories are more accommodating and less resistant - if you resort to the fawn or freeze defence mechanisms. Definitely sounds like a creeper who took advantage of you. I mean if you're not even attracted to men and he made you feel uncomfortable (your gut picked up that he was predatory), then doesn't sound like it was completely consensual.

/at all consensual. Sounds like you were in shock.

Can't remember where I read this, maybe here or somewhere else, but a woman told a story of a man following her into a toilet cubicle and taking her dress off and having sex her. She didn't want it but she totally froze. Just because you didn't scream or resist strongly - does not mean it was consensual sex.

 

[joeylittle]

Whether or not it was? Only you can actually know, because only you can answer the question: was I consenting to sex in my mind when we had sex?

A lot of what you've written points to you perhaps already know that getting in his car was not a great decision. We make bad decisions, it's the human condition.

Quoted for truth.

Most (if not all) rape accounts contain a moment where a choice was made. That's the choice rape victims beat themselves up about. It's the " if I hadn't" - as in, if I hadn't (gotten in the car, gone to the store, smiled at them, etc), I wouldn't have been raped.

But that pivot moment doesn't make you responsible for someone raping you.

The time that matters is what is in your head proximal to the actual assault. Do you think you are deciding to be there, or not?

I've had a decent amount of regret sex, and I've been raped a few times. One rape in particular I was very....What? Co-operative? Tolerant? Something...definitely no fighting back. But it involved a weapon. And even though most of my memory of it was that I was compliant, I do remember that brief burst of a moment when I knew they had a thing that could kill me.

So, rape.

A regret-sex incident: A guy picked me up at a bar, I wasn't even close to drunk. Fast forward, he seemed to have a lot invested in being extra-dominant and rough. At one point I decided I was done, and made a move to get him off me, but I did not succeed. And I really did decide to just get it over with.

Some people would say that move was my 'no'. Some might say I wasn't able to clearly see what was happening to me because on a certain level, I was in a trauma-recreation loop.

But my personal bottom line is, I chose to let it happen. So I would not call it rape. I did place myself in the situation, I did have my faculties, I did make the beginning of a 'stop' action - but then I decided it was close enough to done. I was not afraid I wouldn't get out of there, and I wasn't afraid it would get worse.

In your situation - it's hard to tell. You made it clear to the guy that you weren't interested, you said. I'm curious - is it at all possible you were not definitive? I'm not saying that makes it rape or not - but it's the only tangible moment of consent/non-consent that is in the clear for you, memory-wise. So it might be helpful for you to pick that apart a little.

 

[Tara Lila Rose]

Hey, I am new here, and I am guessing there's a lot of posts like these, so I will try my best to keep it...

You were RAPED dear one. I'm so sorry this happened to you. You must get help immediately! You have a drinking problem but of course that is symptomatic of much deeper wounds which most likely stem from childhood trauma. I should know. Been there. You have much work to do and must be commited and disciplined in order to heal and have a good life.

 

[Suzetig]

You have a drinking problem but of course that is symptomatic of much deeper wounds which most likely stem from childhood trauma.

You can't possibly know this is true for this poster. Going out and getting blind drunk does not in and of itself constitute a drinking problem and not all drinking problems stem from childhood trauma. Projecting your own stuff onto someone else isn't generally helpful.

I don't know whether you were raped or not, I wasn't there but I wonder how the guy concerned would know you still weren't interested? You say you didn't say no after getting in his car and while not saying no doesnt mean you consented, it would be difficult to determine how he knew you didn't want it when you left the party, got in his car etc.

I know you said you told him you aren't interested earlier in the night but it's not unusual for someone to change their mind as the night goes on, to start feeling horny and know the sleeze at the bar is at least a sure thing. In that case, for me, it's regret sex. It's also not unknown for guys to see a girl steadily getting more and more drunk and decide to just wait it out til she's too drunk to know what she's doing... which is rape. And from the outside looking in they can look very similar indeed. I too have know more of both those scenarios than I'd like to admit.

The main thing now is sorting out your feelings about yourself, it almost doesn't matter whether sex was or wasn't consensual - the rape label isn't always a helpful one - but you understanding what made you put yourself in danger (by drinking too much, not knowing what you were doing and not leaving with friends) and how you make sense of the sexual parts of what happened will help you move forward from what sounds like a horrible experience.

 

[Purple_6]

I am surprised at how many responses to you I have read on this thread that have really disappointed me. I think you are brave to try to dig deeper into what really happened and for seeking out help. No matter what your decisions were that night doesn't change the fact that someone took advantage of you in a time of weakness. I am so sorry you are going through this. It seems like societies version of rape is getting attacked and beaten and raped in an ally late at night...but rape isn't always cut and dry, there are a lot of gray areas people do not talk about because it becomes more complicated. But the fact of the matter is you were in NO condition to consent and someone sought out an f*cked up opportunity in that. ITS WRONG and ITS NOT YOUR FAULT. Hope you continue to find help getting through this. Best wishes!

 

[alis]

instead of replying to individual comments I'll make a general reply.
first, I did have friends with me, and through the night I made multiple attempts towards them that I was feeling unsafe. Either they also got drunk and forgot or just left without a second thought I do not know. I just know one second they were there and the next they were all gone.

And, I don't think I suddenly changed my mind and was feeling drunk horny. See the thing is, I'm gay. Pretty freaking gay.

Also, I don't think I have a drinking problem in the sense of alcoholism. I have been trying to avoid alcohol for a little while because recently it makes me very suicidal (Which in hindsight makes sense because it's a depressant.)

Yes, my story is not the "perfect victim" narrative. I made a set of decisions that contributed to something happening that I didn't want. I was not the lone woman walking alone at night. It wasn't a stranger like the most prevalent narrative wants people to believe. I think that narrative exists because it's so much easier to believe. It's easier to vilify someone when it is a stranger, the evil boogy-man jumping out from behind a bush. (I'm not saying that this type of narrative doesn't happen..)However, most survivors of any kind of violence knows the attacker. It's harder to believe when it's someone you know. It's harder to explain, harder to empathize even. But more often than not, it is the boyfriend, the husband, the friend of a friend, the person in class, the friend of a father, and so on and so forth.

I find myself often wishing that it was from out of bush at night. That it was a stranger, that I didn't go into shock and denial. That I screamed, and clawed, and used all my force and might. I wish this because then it would be easier to explain and easier to empathize with.

But then reality check hits in and I realize that it doesn't matter what the narrative is, dominant ideology in western societies alwaysy vilify the survivor, *rarely* the perpetrator. Sexually assaulting a drunk girl in Canada is pretty much legal now anyway. (this comment is in reply to novia scotia judge sexual assault case--I don't want to go into detail to it so google if you desire.)

Well, this comment has accidentally turned into a mini-essay and I definitely did not intend so forth to it!

-A

 

[GWhizz]

instead of replying to individual comments I'll make a general reply.
first, I did have friends with me, a...

I'm not going to comment on whether or not it was consensual or not because I don't think it's helpful getting online feedback in this form, I think you need to take that up with a professional qualified to give legal objective information.

I would just like to stress that if you ever find yourself in a situation where you feel unsafe and your friends are not registering your cry for help for whatever reason, please get yourself to an environment where you do feel safe.

Maybe it's my hypervigilance but I know I have to rely on myself ultimately so I take precautions to ensure I'm never too drunk to self-care unless I have a sober person I know I can depend on. I also would leave an event early if I was in anyway uncomfortable as it means I'm not enjoying it anymore and I like to be mindful about how I spend my time.

Not that I'm saying that led into what happened. I'm just making the point that you protect yourself as best as you can going forward.

 

[alis]

The simplest, of course, is not to drink when my anxiety is up. But from a practical standpoint, I could be drinking with my best mates and the situation changes / someone shows up to hits my alarm bells, so knowing either of those patterns is hugely useful to me, because it lets me interrupt them, make different choices, and change the outcome. That's not possible with rape. Just isn't. So even though I've got a whole lot more to sift-sort-deal with when I'm dealing with the results of my own choices and actions, in the long run, I far prefer it. In the short term, though, generally the opposite..

I wasn't drinking when my anxiety was up, it was a fantastic day, a fantastic night with people at the time I considered friends. When I denied dudes offer in the evening he told me he would leave, (by this point I had had a stupid amount to drink but still), I didn't even REALIZE he was still there until my friends had left me and I was in a car? And I had told multiple friends throughout the night about this but they still left all at once while I was in the bathroom or something I don't know that's what I assume. At no point did I feel attracted to and drunkedly lose my inhibitions either? Because I've definitely done that before too and been all sloppy and felt bad about it the next day but In those cases I didn't have negative connotations during the actual event ? I don't know . Not making much sense here but... I realize now a few things I could have done differently.

Firstly, avoidance of alcohol. Secondly, dressing more masculine and wearing less makeup attracts less attention to myself. (proven to work actually.) Third, not staying so late and leaving earlier. Fourth, Perhaps jumping out of the car or realizing where I was. Fifth, calling a cab like a logical person. Sixth, Not being so Damn Stupid! Haha.

 

[alis]

actually, just delete this post, this was utterly and completely my own doing. goodbye.

 

[Suzetig]

I'm not sure it was all your own doing, you've said you know you wouldn't have got drunk and horny and if you did, you wouldn't have been attracted to a guy in any event. So, somewhere along the way consent didn't happen because you're clear you wouldn't have consented to sex with a guy. We can all look at decisions we make that leave us vulnerable and blame ourselves but at the end of it all you've had sex with someone you wouldn't have chosen to and are clear you didn't choose to. Which makes it sound more like my scenario 2 where some sleeze waits for you to be too drunk to know what he's doing.

 

[Friday]

I wasn't drinking when my anxiety was up, it was a fantastic day, a fantastic night with people at the tim...

I shared with you some pieces of my story, and some of the ways I break things down in my own life and why I do it that way... For 2 reasons.

1. I am one of a few/one of the few people on here who will say "That's not rape." when I don't believe it to be from what's written. No matter how unpopular the opinion. I didn't say that on yours. For damn good reason. I also didn't say "Honey, I'm sorry, that's definitely rape." Also for damn good reason. From what you wrote, there was no way for me to tell based off of a few paragraphs. Sexual assault can and often does get murky as hell. If I think it's rape? I'll say so. If I don't think it's rape? Same. When I can't even begin to form an opinion, (correct or incorrect), or when it could go either way... I either say that OR I share parts of my story, instead, so that a person reading it can take anything useful from it / while also being aware of my own biases. My life. My lessons. How I tend to think about things and why. If anything is useful to you? Have at. Whether it clarifies in either direction.

2. You were really honest about shit. You didn't paint yourself as "the perfect victim", or start changing your story to make yourself look better/him worse... Which in my book rates me going to the effort of sharing my own life, instead of just telling you XYZ.

...

If I'd been in a better headspace while I was writing I'd have shared BOTH regret sex AND murky sexual assault stories from my life, like I usually try to and JoeyLittle did, but I was having kind of a shit day, that day & ended up talking about 2 different versions of regret sex instead, and that's my mistake.