In Need Of Advice

[St.Maybe]

Hi guys.

This is more off the topic of PTSD than on it, but I would deeply appreciate any advice from folks with experience being hospitalized for mental health reasons- I've been asked to speak to a case worker to give a statement that would amount to getting someone who doesn't want to be there out of the hospital.

My lover was recently hospitalized and he's been in quite a state about how his rights were violated... he's a control freak and it wasn't easy for him to be ECO'd. He's a bad addict, and some of his symptoms are delusions and paranoia. He can rarely identify this behavior- to him, "the universe is f*cking with him."

He's pushed everyone else away... his lifelong friends remain in spirit but at a distance. His father is a bit of a religious fanatic who behaves questionably and is at the center of a lot of his paranoia. So that leaves me.
I'm the woman who fell in love with him before he addled his brain and who broke off our engagement because he wasn't working toward healing and I was.

My question is, do you think I should essentially lie and say he has a support system to get him out? That's the condition of his release and they only have release hearings once a week.

He is in deep denial about his real reasons for being there. And he feels he has a right to be free. I don't want him locked up, but the truth is he has no support system. I told him when we broke up that I would no longer be there to support him with his addiction problems until he was actively getting professional help for them.

He's in the process of signing release papers and the case worker will be calling me later.
I don't know what to do. I want to help him and I'm fundamentally against people being held against their will... I also don't trust the medical system any farther than I can throw it.

Ugh. I want to avoid overstepping, but I want to be honest and I want him to get help. I'm afraid of him coming back and coming by and bringing his chaos to me during a time when I need it least. I'm afraid his addiction will only lead back to some form of institutionalization or his death.

 

[St.Maybe]

Also, when I speak to the case worker he's insisted on being there for the conversation. He wants me to follow these instructions: "say he has a support system and get him out."

I'm confused as to what would count as betraying him... I betray him if I tell her he has no support, and I betray him if I lie and facilitate his further self-destruction.

 

[joeylittle]

You answered your own question, I think -

My question is, do you think I should essentially lie and say he has a support system to get him out?

And he feels he has a right to be free. I don't want him locked up, but the truth is he has no support system.

Don't lie about being there when you aren't going to be there (as a support system). It sets both of you up for failure.

Whether or not you trust the medical institution isn't as relevant as the reality of his problems and what will happen to him if he's released with an expectation of help. There's a reason they ask that question. You know that he needs help, and you know that he's likely not safe on his own. You also know you can't handle getting pulled into his situation.

Tell them the truth - that you are not his support system.

And Im not sure he gets to demand to be present when you speak. But, regardless, you need to tell the truth here.

but I want to be honest and I want him to get help.

Is there a better/more specific facility you could help get him transferred to? That might be a good middle way.

 

[Justmehere]

My question is, do you think I should essentially lie and say he has a support system to get him out? That's the condition of his release and they only have release hearings once a week.

This is such a hard position to be in and my heart goes out to you.

There are a couple of reasons why I don't think you should lie to the case worker.

If you lie about a support system as part of a hearings process, or in any other role, you open yourself up to possible criminal liability for what he did. If he is released and does something stupid, and they investigate why he was released, it could come back on you. If this goes to court, and you are called to testify, they will ask you about your previous statements. If you continue the lie, you would be commiting felony perjury. If you don't continue the lie, you would have to own up to previously lying and it would harm you and him both.

It also doesn't seem true and honoring to who you are a person.

It also takes on a role that isn't yours. By providing false info the the staff, you make it harder for them to do their jobs to best help him. It doesn't allow the staff to make their best decision for him with all their training.

It's sending a message to him that you know better than the trained pros helping him. It will promote his denial, distrust, and unwillingness to work with them.

Support systems are very important, and claiming he has a support system when he doesn't could cripple his ability to build the support he does need to recover.

The staff have no interest in keeping him there indefinitely. If he doesn't have a support system and that's the key factor for his release, then they will help him build one. They will do it if only to get him out of their hair.

If you lie for him and help him get out when he would not otherwise get out, it is enabling of him to stay stuck where he is. He may not like the loss of control he is facing, but it may actually be a good thing for him. It could be his rock bottom that helps him make the difficult changed he needs in life to get better.

It also allows you to stay stuck too. It is a continuation of a codependent way of relating, and it sends the message to him that you are responsible for his recovery.

It's also not likely the make or break factor that he makes it out to be. They only keep someone against their will if they are accused or convicted of a crime, or if they are otherwise deemed to be an imminent danger to themsleves or others. (Only other reason would be if he is "gravely disabled" - which means he can't feed and toliet himself. It's a very, very low bar.)

Support system or not, they are not going to release him until those matters are solved. Period. They can't hold someone for no support system alone.

He's trying to manipulate you to believe that it's up to you and an external support system as to whether or not he is released and that's just not true. It's not.

It's a crappy position he has put you in. I get it. It sucks to be hospitalized against ones will and I would be desperate to get out too. But the way to get out is to do the work and no longer be a danger to self or others. Not to manipulate loved ones into lying.

You have the right to decline to go. You also have the right to ask to speak to the case worker privately. You could even ask the case worker to help you figure out how to let him know that you and him didn't meet with the case worker together. They deal with this stuff all the time, it wouldn't be the first time.

Not only do I think you should not lie but that you should reach out for help from this caseworker about how to set this boundary with him. This will show the case worker he does have a really good person in his life, who is willing to set and keep boundaries, and this is just as important to recovery from addiction and mental health issues.

Be honest and don't let him put responsibilities on you that are not yours, for your sake and his.

 

[SoSadGuilty]

Don't lie for him. He needs professional help and you need to look after yourself. I'd tell the truth about his support system or lack of it and leave it to the professionals to deal with.

 

[Justmehere]

I really like @joeylittle's idea of seeing if you could be an advocate for better treatment as good compromise. It meets the needs of the case manager to know honest information about him, it helps address his desperation for you to be an advocate for him, and it may help you over the long-haul as well. The only caution I would give is to be sure to not take on responsibility for his recovery even if you do advocate for him. It's really important for his sake that responsibility for his recovery is left up to him and the professionals there to help.

 

[Anarchy]

That's a horrible position to be put in.

I think JMH has explained very clearly

To put it in a nutshell, it looks like he is emotionally blackmailing you into enabling him to continue his dysfunction

That's not good for you, or your recovery

It's also not good for him.

IMO, Telling the truth, that you are not able to support him and that you are not in a position to enable his problem behaviours... is what I would do.

Let's hope that he stops blaming the universe and starts to look at what he can take ownership of and work on. only he can do that for himself.

no one can do it for him

This gives a good short summary: Link Removed

 

[St.Maybe]

Ahhhhhhh.

Okay. I can breathe now. Thank you all so much for your advice.

You're all right, of course.

I don't even know why I considered helping him get out when he landed himself there... I had him released to me once before when his father (admittedly) set him up by telling the police he was violent in a desperate attempt to get him clean- he'd needed help but he really didn't belong where they put him, a hospital for the criminally insane. This time it's different, and this place is equipped to deal with trauma and drug abuse and general psych evals. I'm going to give the case worker a written statement about my unwillingness to help him (unless he's actively in treatment) as well as my limited capacity to help him at all because of where I am in my own recovery. Further still I'm going to tell her just how long it's been since I've seen him without symptoms of drug-induced psychosis. Included in the statement are the number of times I can remember him expressing a genuine fear for his life during this two-month time period. That way they have the information they need if they want to recommend him for their rehab program.

@Anarchy and @Justmehere, you're right about the emotional blackmailing and complete lack of responsibility on my part- I honestly couldn't see that until you said so.

@joeylittle and @SoSadGuilty, telling the truth for the win.

Much appreciated, guys.

 

[EveHarrington]

Don't lie.

I fear you'd end up on a co-dependency slippery slope.

What if something BAD happened? It really could come back on you for lying in order to get him out of the hospital. I mean that's a lot of responsibility on your shoulders!

 

[SoSadGuilty]

Ahhhhhhh.

Okay. I can breathe now. Thank you all so much for your advice.

You're all right, of cou...

Good, I think you are doing the right thing for both of you :)

 

[Anarchy]

when his father (admittedly) set him up by telling the police he was violent in a desperate attempt to get him clean- he'd needed help but he really didn't belong where they put him, a hospital for the criminally insane.

with a father who pulls life threatening shite like that (he could have easily got the guy shot), no wonder the guy gets paranoid!

Stay safe, and look after you.
Feel free to read up on co-dependency or maybe take a look in on an al anon group as a way to re-discover and repair your own interpersonal boundaries.
:hug:

 

[Friday]

When someone doesn't have a support system? Steps are taken that are not taken when someone does have a support system.

It's not like if you don't have a place to live they keep you hospitalized forever. They help you find a place to live. If you lie and say you have a place to live when you don't? They don't help you find a place. Because there isn't any need to find housing, if they think you already have housing.

That's why these questions are asked; in order to find out what services or help someone might need. Is it a perfect system? Nope. Sometimes people fall through the cracks, and other times someone thinks they have XYZ, and immediately lose it, and other times people lie & they never had it to begin with. But although things can go wrong, like needing help with housing and that person being on vacation, or there not being any subsidized housing available, or something... Better to not intentionally make the worst case scenario (not getting any help,with what you need help with) happen for sure.