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"it's Like You're Two Different People"

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@Solara I honestly believe that self awareness is a key to our freedom. You have been given a gift by these two men in my humble opinion. Now what to do with that?

I have had male friends as well that have been able to help me pinpoint behaviour shifts. I have asked them along the way to make me aware of the shift when they see it. My t-doc explained to me that for every emotion there is a physical change of some sort in the body. Whether that be sweating, feeling cold (physically), rubbing my eyes, the list goes on and on. I am wondering if your friend can be a person that may be able to consistently let you know when he feels or sees that 'change' in you and then you can try to identify the physical shifting of your body - the cue so to speak so that perhaps you can train yourself to see what triggers you into this. With time and patience I have been able to identify a ton of things throughout my journey.

Wishing you the best of luck and good for you for being open to hearing what others are saying they are noticing.
 
I am playing with the idea that it really is a spectrum. That DID is out at one end and that most people have some degree of "splitting." And for myself and my H the thing that seems most helpful (since avoiding the splits is not realistically possible, and possibly not desirable either) is to just... switch gears right along with them and try to deal with whatever is up. It is better than walking away, although in our case I have had to walk away because the splinter was verbally abusive. Interestingly, once I stopped being just reactive to the splinter and consistently walked away or (a couple of times) managed to stay just "present" myself with that angry splinter and do nonviolent communication with him, then it... calmed down. This was incredibly hard for me. But I did it. He gets out of sync, loses information, used to get out of time. I don't. But I still ... shift affective states

I have also noticed that I have "scripts" that I fall into, and when I listen to them, and deal with the underlying emotions - in the sense of having a kind of internal dialogue and attending to the feelings - they ... dissipate? shift? Not sure of the right word. Anyway, something changes.


@Valentino posted this on another thread and it seems appropriate here:
"To experience the Self, there’s no shortcut around our inner barbarians – those unwelcome parts of ourselves, such as hatred, rage, suicidal despair, fear, addictive need (for drugs, food, sex), racism and other prejudice, greed, as well as the somewhat less heinous feelings of ennui, guilt, depression, anxiety, self-righteousness, and self-loathing. The lesson I’ve repeatedly learned over the years of practice is that we must learn to listen to and ultimately embrace these unwelcome parts. If we can do that, rather than trying to exile them, they transform. And, though it seems counterintuitive, there’s great relief for therapists in the process of helping clients befriend rather than berate their inner tormentors. I’ve discovered, after painful trial and much error at my clients’ expense, that treating their symptoms and difficulties like varieties of emotional garbage to be eliminated from their systems simply doesn’t work well. Often, the more I’ve joined clients in trying to get rid of their destructive rage and suicidal impulses, the more powerful and resistant these feelings have grown – though they’ve sometimes gone underground to surface at another time, in another way.

In contrast, these same destructive or shameful parts responded far more positively and became less troublesome, when I began treating them as if they had a life of their own, as if they were in effect, real personalities in themselves, with a point of view and a reason for acting as they did. Only when I could approach them in a spirit of humility and a friendly desire to understand them could I begin to understand why they were causing my clients so much trouble. I discovered that if I can help people approach their own worst, most hated feelings and desires with open minds and hearts, these retrograde emotions will be found not only to make sense and have a legitimate purpose in the person’s psychological economy, but also, quite spontaneously, to become more benign.

I’ve seen this happen over and over again. As I help clients begin inner dialogues with the parts of themselves holding horrible, antisocial feelings and get to know why these internal selves express such fury or self-defeating violence, these parts calm down, grow softer, and even show that they also contain something of value. I’ve found, during this work, that there are no purely “bad” aspects of any person. Even the worst impulses and feelings – the urge to drink, the compulsion to cut oneself, the paranoid suspicions, the murderous fantasies – spring from parts of a person that themselves have a story to tell and the capacity to become something positive and helpful to the client’s life. The point of therapy isn’t to get rid of anything, but to help it transform.
----"
from "The Larger Self" By Richard Schwartz, Ph.D.
http://www.selfleadership.org/the-larger-self.html
 
@Solara I've experienced this kind of thing most/all of my life but was not as self-aware as you regarding the "triggered" parts of myself. Since starting trauma therapy, I'm starting to understand it a bit better/be more aware of it. I have had many relationships (I am middle-aged now, and have been with my husband for near on 24 years). In the longer term relationships with men who were/are aware and responsive, I've often been told that they don't understand me, or can't read me, or are confused by me. In the relationships I kept up for a while, I worked very hard to show only the "normal" part of me. When the "triggered" parts happened, I would just shut down...spacey, not engaged, frozen in fear, or would isolate myself physically. Eventually, I would just get tired of fighting to stay "normal." With the exception of my husband, I have ended every romantic relationship I ever had.

These parts of me that "come out" at different times have been an ongoing source of conversation between my husband and me. He (who does not have PTSD or DID or anything else really except a lot of anxiety) has a lot of trouble riding the varying tides of my roller-coaster life. Now that I have language to describe what is happening (thanks to therapy and a lot of reading), the biggest challenge is to communicate with him about what is going on with me. I find it very, very difficult, but when I can take the leap and talk about it with him, he is grateful and really tries to understand. It doesn't mean he always does...but I don't always "get" him either...we just need to keep working at it. Relationships are really hard work if they get to the deeper/long-term levels!

I know this isn't DID as I have been tested numerous times and always come back with no diagnosis, and I know I don't have all the DID symptoms. But, I can't help but wonder if this is somewhere on the dissociative spectrum? I am not sure what qualifies as dissociation versus what is just an emotional shutdown. I don't lose time, I am always here and present. Its just that I go numb and become uncaring/unfeeling. It takes work to fight back from this....sometimes I do, sometimes I don't.
I don't have a diagnosis of DID either, but I have lots of dissociation. From all I have read, what @Eleanor said about dissociation being on a spectrum is true. Emotional numbing/shutdown (one of my issues) is one form of dissociation--dissociation from your emotions.

When I am triggered my self protection goes into over-ride and that may appear as unfeeling or uncaring to other people but it is anything but for me.
In fact it is co caring and so feeling and vulnerable that I can't bare it. And that is usually heartbreaking for me, because the very thing I need to be able to synthesise these two parts and heal is the very thing that I revolt from and it's entirely out of my control.
Yes, yes, yes! I have way more than two parts, but synthesis is definitely what I'm working on!

II am past the stage of fighting it because it only brought more trauma and chronic fatigue. I have had to learn that 'fighting' it is accepting it and nurturing it and spending time comforting that part of myself.
This is, I think, what happened to me. Exhausted after all these years of fighting. Am working on the nurturing, but it is very, very difficult to embrace those wounded parts of myself that make me feel so vulnerable and frightened. It seems, though, to be the only way to heal and feel like one whole person.
 
Hi Solara,

I find it interesting that you call this side of yourself uncaring and unfeeling. Is that really true?
When I am triggered my self protection goes into over-ride and that may appear as unfeeling or uncaring to other people but it is anything but for me.

In fact it is co caring and so feeling and vulnerable that I can't bare it. And that is usually heartbreaking for me, because the very thing I need to be able to synthesise these two parts and heal is the very thing that I revolt from and it's entirely out of my control

Your reply stopped me dead in my tracks so to speak. The guy....He told me pretty much the same thing. He sees it as my protection mode going into overdrive. That is, protection of myself AND protection of others. I have a HUGE guilt complex and fear hurting anyone else, so this makes sense. The words I speak when I am in this mode are those of protection of everybody----trying to protect both myself and others from these episodes. I have always been a self-aware person, but this revelation blew me away. I am so glad that you replied, as it is confirmation of what happens to me from a second outside perspective. I mean, after the guy told me how he sees me, I pretty much blew him off as an "outsider" who didn't get it or really understand. After I read your reply, I went back and told him that he was able to see me in a way that I couldn't even see myself. I told him that he has given me a great amount of perspective on myself that I never could have gained on my own. He was skeptical as to having such a great amount of insight, as he knows he will never truly understand PTSD, but I know how great it is to have someone who can understand, even if they think they don't have a clue. (I hope I'm not just rambling and making no sense at this point, lol)

And then I realized that this isn't so much a dissociative state as it is an extreme emotional state. I get stuck in "emotional mind" and it is difficult for me to get back to "wise mind" when I am in an episode. I think I am more relieved than anything to know that I have my DBT skills to fall back on, as knowing this is a state of mind rather than a dissociative state. I pulled out my DBT book by Marsha Linehan and I am going to work through the skills again.
 
And then I realized that this isn't so much a dissociative state as it is an extreme emotional state. I get stuck in "emotional mind"
You say pot-at-toes, they say po-ta-toes....I agree though, dissociation is just the physiological wrapper.

I had a class with my T yesterday. She doesn't often say much, mainly cos I'm blabbing away.
I was supposed to try and enter a dissociated state in front of her (bit of a leap!). So we were speaking about Shame and Rejection and Re-traumatisation, like a holy trinity in a way.

I have never felt intellectually ashamed of what happened to me. I never felt like it was my fault, I was always furious with him and my family for treating me like they did and waged battle at them to see the error of their ways and the justice system for years.

Because I felt like that and did that stuff, I never really allowed myself to acknowledge that I was ashamed emotionally. Although I knew I struggled with it on that level, it kind of confused me. Sometime I would be certain I wasn't ashamed, yet I wouldn't risk myself emotionally either.

To have the emotional need of that raped child rejected would be too awful for me to risk.. And yet I want be comforted.
So it's this trust and panic circle.

I was explaining all this, when my T said to me something along the lines of this. 'So you think that any rejection is because of your past.'

It's not an earth shattering statement but something about it made something inside me sort of twitch.
Shame and rejection. You feel ashamed because you were rejected (in the most horrible way), so you don't risk rejection because it makes you feel ashamed and shame reminds you of your abuse?? I'm sort of writing this out in relation to myself and for the first time. I don't really know what it means yet.
 
There is a symposium in London this September at The Barbican (if I recall correctly), that is entitled The Neurobiology of Shame.
Of course its only for the functioning, comfortably off, generally private, mental health professional :rolleyes: :shifty: . I did wonder about going assuming I would be allowed (using some of my savings). It would be fascinating but I'm not sure how much it would actually help me deal with may actual problem.
 
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