M
Madhather
Is PTSD different for those that suffer childhood trauma as opposed to those who suffer adult trauma?
Thank you for any input and information.
Thank you for any input and information.
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Kas_Can_Fly
Diamond Member
Yes, both physically on a gene level [Link Removed and emotionally/Psychologically due to the disruption of a not yet fully formed describe and personality and other developmental disruptions. Of course there are other factors such as whether the trauma is Complex or repeated, as well as the reinforcement in those traumas, even if just aspects. For example my Nan was my first abusive care provider, being extremely narcissistic, this led to me not standing up for my self and reporting bullying/abuse from teachers/sexual abuse later on.
I'm sure many will come and describe their own personal ways they have been affected differently by the age they were when they suffered their trauma. But I just wanted to point out the physical changes on a genetic level that happen are also different.
Sometimes I think it must be worse for a child because they're so much smaller and not as strong or able to say/do anything. Sometimes though children are more resilient and bounce back faster - speaking for myself I heal almost unnaturally fast and don't feel too much pain from a lot of things, but I also know I'm damaged beyond belief by my abuse. Sometimes an adult loses a connection to what they were before which must be very difficult, they have to relearn what they knew previously or to change. For a child whose never known anything other than trauma, they don't know who or what they are. Mostly I think it's most difficult on the individual experiencing the trauma and resulting aftermath.
I'm sure many will come and describe their own personal ways they have been affected differently by the age they were when they suffered their trauma. But I just wanted to point out the physical changes on a genetic level that happen are also different.
Sometimes I think it must be worse for a child because they're so much smaller and not as strong or able to say/do anything. Sometimes though children are more resilient and bounce back faster - speaking for myself I heal almost unnaturally fast and don't feel too much pain from a lot of things, but I also know I'm damaged beyond belief by my abuse. Sometimes an adult loses a connection to what they were before which must be very difficult, they have to relearn what they knew previously or to change. For a child whose never known anything other than trauma, they don't know who or what they are. Mostly I think it's most difficult on the individual experiencing the trauma and resulting aftermath.
rightkindofme
Diamond Member
I'm not going to add my background stuff, actually. :)
I will say that there seems to be dispute as to whether it is different.
I will say that there seems to be dispute as to whether it is different.
DharmaGirl
VIP Member
I believe the symptoms are the same, but the complex stuff takes longer.
My understanding and experience is that it changes many things as the formation of the personality is disrupted when trauma happens to one who is young. Especially repeated trauma. They cannot bond properly and this is the time for bonding, and at times not only do they have one parent they cannot count on for support but both.
For a description google Van der Kolk as he has done a ton of work on developmental trauma.
For something that points to more specific development issues and is less technical this might be something that would be of interest google 'the developmental impact of childhood trauma ' and click on the site that refers to nctsn org site or whatever else catches your eye.
Hope this helps
Shimmerz
For a description google Van der Kolk as he has done a ton of work on developmental trauma.
For something that points to more specific development issues and is less technical this might be something that would be of interest google 'the developmental impact of childhood trauma ' and click on the site that refers to nctsn org site or whatever else catches your eye.
Hope this helps
Shimmerz
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D
Deleted member 1860
Yes. It's not just about taking longer to heal. We had the formation of a "self" disrupted at a critical point. Mine was disrupted at the age when safety is being learned, hence why it's a huge problem for me. Depending on the age of trauma, one may struggle more or less with certain aspects of the formation of the self. I learned all of this while in a trauma hospital. It was very enlightening.
Meadowsweet
Diamond Member
The trauma is different, but PTSD is a set of symptoms. But then, what is being re-experienced makes a difference to how the person reacts to that re-experiencing. So somebody with combat PTSD might behave as if they are in battle, whereas sombody with child-hood trauma might hide in the wardrobe like a child.
I think what gets confusing, is that childhood trauma causes a lot of other problems that are an effect of trauma, but they are not symptoms of PTSD. So there is PTSD symptoms + a load of other developmental issues, (that for some, may be diagnosed as other disorders).
I have had a lot of issues with self-identity, and socially and emotionally I'm very un-developed and I battle with childish needs and worries. Those issues have been there always and have messed up my adult life with poor decision making and unhealthy relationships. But I didn't experience distinct PTSD symptoms until I was attacked in my thirties.
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I think what gets confusing, is that childhood trauma causes a lot of other problems that are an effect of trauma, but they are not symptoms of PTSD. So there is PTSD symptoms + a load of other developmental issues, (that for some, may be diagnosed as other disorders).
I have had a lot of issues with self-identity, and socially and emotionally I'm very un-developed and I battle with childish needs and worries. Those issues have been there always and have messed up my adult life with poor decision making and unhealthy relationships. But I didn't experience distinct PTSD symptoms until I was attacked in my thirties.
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The powers that be have still decided that it is one thing and added a dissociative sub category to address those with some of the things that usually additionally come up with early or repeated trauma.
As Meadosweet said they claim that the symptoms are the same - hypervigilence, flashbacks and intrusions, flight and flight issues, emotional numbing. The differences tend to come with things that are in the realm of what is thought of as the "complex" part of complex trauma and which is argued is not an actual part of PTSD itself.
Some of those things can happen from abuse and neglect that isn't necessarily trauma to an extent. Obviously the more extreme and earlier the trauma the more likely the damage would be worse. At different times in child development we develop different functions and an absence of what we need or the presence of a trauma do huge damage.
They are things like attachment problems, inability to learn any emotion moderation, trust and other related issues, interpersonal problems, social skill issues and many more. When these are severe enough at present there is a dual diagnoses of personality disorder and or a dissociative disorder as well as there commonly being such problems as eating disorders, OCD and addictions to self harm etc.
I know for myself the difference just something such as being better at moderating emotions can make. The flashback can be exactly the same but it felt hugely magnified before and so therefore so much worse. Now I can deal with it better and so even though it is the same thing it feels so different.
|All these deficits and terrible early wounds make it so much more difficult for someone with early trauma, neglect and dysfunction to heal and deal with therapy. The relationship with the t is complex and all the basics that someone needs to deal with something difficult - in this case PTSD - aren't there.
There are other things too of course. Like the research that Kas mentioned that may indicate that it is passed on to the next generation through epigenetics.
As Meadosweet said they claim that the symptoms are the same - hypervigilence, flashbacks and intrusions, flight and flight issues, emotional numbing. The differences tend to come with things that are in the realm of what is thought of as the "complex" part of complex trauma and which is argued is not an actual part of PTSD itself.
Some of those things can happen from abuse and neglect that isn't necessarily trauma to an extent. Obviously the more extreme and earlier the trauma the more likely the damage would be worse. At different times in child development we develop different functions and an absence of what we need or the presence of a trauma do huge damage.
They are things like attachment problems, inability to learn any emotion moderation, trust and other related issues, interpersonal problems, social skill issues and many more. When these are severe enough at present there is a dual diagnoses of personality disorder and or a dissociative disorder as well as there commonly being such problems as eating disorders, OCD and addictions to self harm etc.
I know for myself the difference just something such as being better at moderating emotions can make. The flashback can be exactly the same but it felt hugely magnified before and so therefore so much worse. Now I can deal with it better and so even though it is the same thing it feels so different.
|All these deficits and terrible early wounds make it so much more difficult for someone with early trauma, neglect and dysfunction to heal and deal with therapy. The relationship with the t is complex and all the basics that someone needs to deal with something difficult - in this case PTSD - aren't there.
There are other things too of course. Like the research that Kas mentioned that may indicate that it is passed on to the next generation through epigenetics.
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I agree with what others have posted about the differences. Also about identifying what's PTSD and what are other trauma-related issues.
Something that I think isn't discussed enough is whether the same sort of treatments for PTSD are appropriate for adult trauma and childhood trauma, given the other trauma-related issues. For example, I think exposure therapy for an adult who developed a fundamental feeling of stability and security before being traumatised is very different from using exposure therapy for someone who has never developed a sense of safety in the world and whose baseline is fear.
I also think that some treatments might be inappropriate when there has been a lot of dissociation and even selective amnesia, which is often the case with childhood trauma. I think there needs to be much more care over stirring up the subconscious when it's still trying to protect us from being overwhelmed by memories we aren't ready for. I think that's true of adult trauma with amnesia too, I'm just making the point because it's frequently the situation with childhood trauma.
Something that I think isn't discussed enough is whether the same sort of treatments for PTSD are appropriate for adult trauma and childhood trauma, given the other trauma-related issues. For example, I think exposure therapy for an adult who developed a fundamental feeling of stability and security before being traumatised is very different from using exposure therapy for someone who has never developed a sense of safety in the world and whose baseline is fear.
I also think that some treatments might be inappropriate when there has been a lot of dissociation and even selective amnesia, which is often the case with childhood trauma. I think there needs to be much more care over stirring up the subconscious when it's still trying to protect us from being overwhelmed by memories we aren't ready for. I think that's true of adult trauma with amnesia too, I'm just making the point because it's frequently the situation with childhood trauma.
Totally agree. That is where the diagnosis falls flat. Diagnoses are a construct and what they are there for is to direct treatment. And what works for someone with dissociation, partial amnesia and all the other things related to coping and relationships is going to be very different from someone with little of these things. Especially the usual 6 sessions of aggressive CBT exposure therapy with no other preparation or containment. Re traumatisation is a big risk.
As a result you see people go through many many lots of therapy without being helped and often being harmed before they start finding out what is safe and helpful. The system should be doing that for us and it isn't.
As a result you see people go through many many lots of therapy without being helped and often being harmed before they start finding out what is safe and helpful. The system should be doing that for us and it isn't.
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Meadowsweet
Diamond Member
@Hashi @Abstract , regarding treatment: When first diagnosed, I was sent to a therapist who practised trauma focussed CBT. She dropped me because she felt that the limited treatment she could offer was not suitable for complex trauma. Instead she directed me to a therapist who specialised in my specific trauma 'type' rather than in specific symptoms.
This seems to be much more beneficial, because she addresses all of the effects of trauma and growing up with that type of trauma effecting me, not just the specific traumatic incidents.
This seems to be much more beneficial, because she addresses all of the effects of trauma and growing up with that type of trauma effecting me, not just the specific traumatic incidents.
@Meadowsweet. I remember. I think it is very lucky when someone is knowledgeable and ethical enough to know when something is beyond them. You were lucky and I am glad for you. Sadly if you look around at the site this very often doesn't happen. I had therapy over about a 20 year period of time that was wrong for me. It even happens with T's that are advertising that they treat PTSD. It doesn't seem to guarantee that they can treat it in the context of all the other complexities.
Even for you look how long it took to get the correct treatment and you almost never went because of the deficits of the first. There are lots of people with complex ptsd and related issues and very little catering for them. It is standard for them to do the basics and whatever costs the least. What they can get away with. They can do that because there is only one diagnoses. If there were set requirements in place for treatment for those with childhood trauma and PTSD related issues including dissociation and amnesia issues then they would need to balance it out more.
Even for you look how long it took to get the correct treatment and you almost never went because of the deficits of the first. There are lots of people with complex ptsd and related issues and very little catering for them. It is standard for them to do the basics and whatever costs the least. What they can get away with. They can do that because there is only one diagnoses. If there were set requirements in place for treatment for those with childhood trauma and PTSD related issues including dissociation and amnesia issues then they would need to balance it out more.
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