Just Found Out The Details Of My Wife's Rape

[scout86]

If it's not against forum rules I'll send you my number if you would like to have a beer over the phone one day.

(I'm pretty sure it's not against the forum rules. My T has suggested that it might be a good idea to avoid alcohol, but he never said anything about "telephone beer". :)

I have been waiting for my T to suggest "Inside Out". He does that kind of stuff. And I don't know what emotion comes before sadness either. Maybe that's a primary emotion. I didn't know any of this, but I'm told there are primary and secondary emotions, just like there are colors.

All I can say is dealing with the rape of a loved one is not intuitive.

When I think about that, which I am, I'm wondering in what version of reality WOULD it be intuitive? I think we all take our best shot and sometimes those shots are better than others. It helps if you can think, I imagine. Where I give you a ton of credit is "thinking" may not have been what you did FIRST, but you did it an pretty quick. It's not so much we all need to avoid mistakes as what we do when we make one, don't you think?

My comment about remembering who the real victim was...... I pretty much have to reveal a little of my history if I'm going to be involved in a relationship that involves sex. I don't have huge problems, and actually find I enjoy voluntary sex. But there are a couple of things I can't handle and I figure a partner needs a heads up. The last guy I went out with got really upset about my history, but in a way that struck me as weird, at first, and disturbing eventually. He took in more or less as someone having damaged HIS property. I ain't nobody's property! :mad: :)

You're right, we are all many things. None of us are "just" any, one thing. Even that rat bastard who raped your wife. (Anthony told me in a previous thread that it's ok to use that terminology to describe preps. :wideeyed:) I guess there are a lot of possibilities with that guy. I've wondered a little in my own case.......

They say the best revenge is a life well lived. I'm going with that thought, I guess. Oh, one other thought. That same guy who first got angry on my behalf, he also said to me that I had a choice. I could let the guy who molested me mess up the REST of my life, or "not". He said he thought I'd already paid a plenty big enough price and maybe I could quit letting him "win". Words to live by, in my book. Doesn't mean things are always easy, or uncomplicated, but it means I'm not giving up without a fight.

I've also come to the conclusion I would rather be taxed and have a fulfilling life than the alternative which is not an alternative.

Also words to live by! I have a biological brother who doesn't have a conscious. I wouldn't trade "issues" with him for anything.

It's one of those horse pills that is stuck in my throat at the moment on the way down. It's just not there yet.

BEER? :D :bag:

 

[Hooper]

It's not so much we all need to avoid mistakes as what we do when we make one, don't you think?

I prefer to avoid them if I know what is coming. In my case I didn't have a clue of what I was getting into. I agree what we do when we make one is most important though because they are inevitable.

He took in more or less as someone having damaged HIS property. I ain't nobody's property!

I think guys are strange in this respect. I remember in high school the sociology teacher asking "who would only marry a virgin?". Many of the guys raised their hands some of whom at least by their own accounts were not virgins. I was but sure as hell didn't want to be by the time I got married. I would definitely have hoped neither of us would have been by the time we decided to marry. I never looked at my wife as damaged property. She is much more of a triumph over adversity type. To each his own. I also don't see her as my property but more along the lines of she picked me. I did ask her out first but she could have said no.

They say the best revenge is a life well lived. I'm going with that thought, I guess. Oh, one other thought. That same guy who first got angry on my behalf, he also said to me that I had a choice. I could let the guy who molested me mess up the REST of my life, or "not". He said he thought I'd already paid a plenty big enough price and maybe I could quit letting him "win". Words to live by, in my book. Doesn't mean things are always easy, or uncomplicated, but it means I'm not giving up without a fight.

It is a good revenge. I wouldn't trade places for anything. The bad part is his wife and kids suffer. One child was very ill. I wouldn't wish that on anyone. I don't see how the wife could have it good either. It's kind of sad and that's coming from a guy who skips sad. As for letting him win he did not. He did get away with a heinous act. That bothers the hell out of me but it is not a victory. He is a complete loser as far as I am concerned and is not capable of winning. Nor is he capable of messing up the rest of my life although he did turn it upside down for a while.

 

[rightkindofme]

I am in a slightly different position than y'all but I deal with a similar problem. I am very "out" in my life about my life experiences. I have named my rapists. This means... dozens of women have shared their stories with me.
I have pretty much backed out of social groups because I know who all the rapists are and I don't feel I can break confidentiality by outing people and... I can't watch them hunt. I can see what they are doing. I'm not allowed to intervene because "people can change".
You know what? Both my husband and I have committed rape in the past. We have changed. I can't say that other people can't.
This is all complicated and hard to navigate. In many of the on-line communities I frequent there is a phrase, "Your fave is problematic." It is a way of trying to acknowledge that even bad people can do amazing things that inspire others.
Life is really complicated.

 

[Hooper]

I have named my rapists. This means... dozens of women have shared their stories with me.

I do not understand this. If dozens of women have shared their stories with you are you saying that makes their rapists your rapists? Can you elaborate?

I have pretty much backed out of social groups because I know who all the rapists are and I don't feel I can break confidentiality by outing people and... I can't watch them hunt. I can see what they are doing. I'm not allowed to intervene because "people can change".

I am trying to picture a social group made up of many known rapists. Known being I assume you and their victims know? Why can't you out them anonymously? I can appreciate not breaking confidentiality but I can't see hoping multiple people are not raped because "people can change".

You know what? Both my husband and I have committed rape in the past. We have changed. I can't say that other people can't.

This caught me off guard to say the least. I am assuming both of you got away with it legally speaking. I am really at a loss for words. Why would you rape someone? How many rapes does society have to endure before rapists decide they may or may not change? If you or your husband was assaulted by the father, brother or spouse of his victim/victims that you admit you are guilty of would you press charges for assault? This whole post is confusing to me. What am I missing?

 

[rightkindofme]

I do not understand this. If dozens of women have shared their stories with you are you saying that make...

I can see how that is confusing. Sorry.

I have named the people I was raped by. Because I did so, other people have come to me and said the names of their people. They are often different people. I do not feel *I* was raped by every rapist I know about. That's even a bit paranoid for me. :) I brought it up because people in this thread have expressed how difficult it is to know that someone in your community is a rapist. I was trying to express that yes, it is very uncomfortable to know that about someone and have there be nothing you can do.

"Got away with it". yeah. I was 5 when I raped someone. The person in question and I have discussed it years later and I told him I would be ok going with him to the police to make a joint statement that yup, I did that. He said he didn't want to press charges because I really didn't understand what I was doing. I have not sexually assaulted someone since I understood the magnitude of hurt I caused someone.

My husband... that is a more complicated situation. I found out about the rape after he and I had been together for a while. The girl came to me. I encouraged her to go to the police, I took her side when she confronted my husband, and I have been her friend since. So I guess he got away with it too, yeah. Why did I bring it up?

My husband was shocked when she told him that he raped her. He was a teenager and he was following the scripts for "sex" that he knew. It was one of those muddy situations.

I bring it up because at this point in time my husband and I are freakish concerned about getting consent. We have learned that our beliefs about being able to "just tell" when someone wants it is wrong. We have specifically learned a whole bunch of coping methods for trying to be better people.

Honestly at this moment I'm kind of wondering why I brought this up on this thread... I was trying to be supportive about the idea that knowing a negative thing about someone is stressful, I think. Having background information on people complicates your life forever.

I kinda feel like maybe I shouldn't have posted. Sorry.

 

[Hooper]

Honestly at this moment I'm kind of wondering why I brought this up on this thread... I was trying to be supportive about the idea that knowing a negative thing about someone is stressful, I think. Having background information on people complicates your life forever.

I kinda feel like maybe I shouldn't have posted. Sorry.

I'm glad you brought it up. I get the muddy situation your husband was in. I read and listen to what people say to do to prevent rape and I think it is kind of a joke if not just down right unrealistic. Not saying there is consent with any alcohol is wrong whereas a lot of alcohol I can agree with. The first time with any partner is such an awkward situation. It's a delicate dance between knowns and unknowns. You can pretty much rest assured the man wants to. There is the chance the woman might which could be complicated or decreased by a frank discussion of what is already know to begin with. This dialogue that seems to be pushed today just seems so unrealistic. A lot has also changed. I've got single friends that say it is a golden age of sex right now thanks to things like kinder. There's an interesting article if you aren't familiar with it. Google vanity fare tinder-hook-up-culture-end-of-dating(can't post links). It's a dating app like Facebook where you post your parameters and check profiles of anyone who you would like to have sex with and they get alerts when whomever they checked off is interested in them. Some of the guys in the article make a point to text what their expectations are so consent is not questioned. Kind of strange but I guess it would be stranger if it were not out. More like an evolution of social media with a very specific goal in mind. Oddly not one mention of std's in the article.

Back to your husband's situation. I have reexamined my whole limited dating life trying to see if I may have been in a muddy situation. I can think of 3 occasions where I had all but had sex with the exception of intercourse. I tried but 2 were no's and 1 was I didn't have a damn condom. In every situation there was a testing of boundaries. It was a fun exploration of what is ok and what is not. I've read several of the "is this rape" genre of threads. Some clearly were and some were not. At 5 I don't see how it could be. I think you are being hard on yourself. I got my first blow job when I was 2 or 3 from a boy the same age as me who lived a few houses down. It is stupid looking back but for years the only damage it did to me was I thought I could possibly be gay which was horrifying. I had this idea in my head I wouldn't know until I had lost my virginity. That was a weird one as well. Depending on the state that could have been rape. I was 17 and she was 34. She was intoxicated to the point she shouldn't drive so I offered her a ride home. She pretty much jumped me but I was all for it. Nothing non consensual about it. Fast forward and I am not gay, the kid down the street who knows and getting jumped didn't prove much of anything. I did not pick what I am. It just worked out that way.

My wife thinks her situation may be questionable because she thinks he may not think he did anything wrong. I actually agree with her on that point. A lot of predators don't see themselves as such. It was a combination of manipulation, coercion, alcohol and finally force. In my mind it was not questionable. What I have the hardest time with is why she didn't end the relationship. I know they had sex other times but I don't know if they were rape as well or just a byproduct since she was just trying to get to the exit door the best way she knew how. I am certain I don't need to know.

 

[ZenDog]

I'm going to take your advice. This has been the best thing to happen to me all week. I've already take...

Hooper, sounds like you have secondary trauma. Sadly, rape affects more than the victim - the people she loves are victims, too. It's about her, but it is also about you because you love her.

My wife was the victim of date rape 40 years ago. I knew that something occurred, but not the details. Two years ago as part of some counseling she did at a center for poor and at risk girls, she gave her testimony and gave out the details, details I had never heard before. I felt like I was a witness to the event, and I could not do anything!. This was a major factor in my depression. I am finally at the point where I can forgive, but the anger at the situation remains when I get a trigger. Still in counseling. Hang in there. God bless you.

 

[Hooper]

Thanks Zendog. I actually just got back from therapy. Things are much better but I'm not at the point of forgiveness. I have zero desire to give to someone who takes what they want no matter what it is that they want. Forgiveness is actually one of the few things that can not be taken so for now I choose to keep it. I get set off all of the time. The good that has come from my therapy is realizing what my own issues are. Anger is probably the worst. I'm just going to keep going. I guess I'm a work in progress. Thanks again.

 

[rightkindofme]

@Hooper we are all works in progress. :)

 

[Hooper]

Strange week. It started with my wife telling me it was her sister's 25th anniversary on the 28th. She is 10 years older than my wife. I know my wife was raped 25 years ago today. New Year's eve is hard to forget. My wife's Mom was an aspiring photographer and we went by her house after Christmas to exchange gifts. She had pictures of my wife from the wedding as well as others a month or 2 before. They were very strange. One from the summer was very sexual. Another from October a few months later was what she was which was a 13 year old child. The wedding picture I've seen many times was just 3 days prior to her rape. Looking at them for the first time knowing their significance was surreal. This is sounding disjointed but it is representative of the week. My wife's sister married a priest and was a virgin when she married him. I didn't realize the rape was a few days after her marriage. All I knew of her marriage was they went to mexico for the honey moon where she promptly got sick and the consummation of their marriage was delayed a few days. I pulled up a calendar from 91 and the 28th was of course a Saturday and New Year's Eve was a Tuesday when my wife was date raped. This is only my 2nd year to know it happened on New Year's eve. I didn't discuss last year but I noticed for the first time she doesn't see it the way most people do. She doesn't celebrate it or say anything about it. She just says be safe with the kids while we go shoot fireworks with the neighbors and she reads a book or watches a movie. Before I knew I would always joke about New Year's Eve being the last day of the year to have sex for whatever year we are in. Now it's a strange day. I pretty much want to get laid all the time. This year and last year far from it. She can tell something is wrong with me but I don't really want to discuss it because she is as best I can tell over it and I'm still adjusting after just under 2 years of knowing exactly what happened. I'm still in therapy but I don't know exactly how much it has helped. I'm never going to be ok with it. My desire for revenge is still there but tempered. I thought about buying her flowers but didn't because I don't feel like discussing why I bought them. The 25th anniversary of her rape is an odd time and place for me. I really don't think she thinks about it. Having the history of her sister's anniversary and knowing what the next few days brought for my wife is just really bothering me. They were 10 years apart in age but lost their virginity just hours apart in such opposite ways. No one knows but me, my wife, my therapist and the anonymous strangers here. Just a strange place to be in on one of the more festive days of the year. Anyway that's where I am. Happy New Year's.

 

[scout86]

She can tell something is wrong with me but I don't really want to discuss it because she is as best I can tell over it and I'm still adjusting after just under 2 years of knowing exactly what happened.

My T has said, on more than one occasion, that he doesn't think secrets are a good thing. He says that doesn't mean you have to tell everyone everything right now. Just that, in the long run, it's better to get stuff out in the open and talk about it.
Another thing he's said, that might be relevant, is that a situation that might kill one person, and cause PTSD in another, someone else might walk away from basically unaffected. So, maybe she is over it. If she is, she might realize that you aren't. Or she at least might want to know that. And maybe hearing how she's thinking and feeling about it now might help you. And that's maybe something she'd want to do. You might find that, if you can talk about it, it breaks down a kind of wall and lets you feel more like you're on the same team. (Which you are.)

I'm never going to be ok with it.

There's a lot of ways of being ok with stuff. I sure wouldn't expect you to be ok with someone you love being raped. I'm not even sure getting past anger is a reasonable goal. Being willing to stay within the law might be?

Good hearing from you again! Happy New Year to you & your family too!

 

[Hooper]

I'm on one of my rereading posts from my past to see what if any progress I've made. I've been through a long period of stagnation since my options of justice, revenge/another form of justice and forgiveness were all nonviable options. Something has happened recently that has helped me greatly. I have totally changed my views of forgiveness. My old view is somewhat summed up here in an old post:

Thanks Zendog. I actually just got back from therapy. Things are much better but I'm not at the point of forgiveness. I have zero desire to give to someone who takes what they want no matter what it is that they want. Forgiveness is actually one of the few things that can not be taken so for now I choose to keep it. I get set off all of the time. The good that has come from my therapy is realizing what my own issues are. Anger is probably the worst. I'm just going to keep going. I guess I'm a work in progress. Thanks again.

I don't know if it is my Christian upbringing (which I have seriously strayed from) or my definition of forgiveness was just wrong but I always saw forgiveness as a gift to someone else compounded by the fact that I felt like forgiveness would require accepting what was being forgiven which in my case was the rape of my wife. The charitable nature of the Christian notion of forgiveness makes it too difficult for me to have as an option. The problem with revenge (although I see it as more as justice of last resort) is it does not change what happened. Looking back I made 2 huge mistakes:
1. Asking "what exactly happened" the night you were raped
2. Hunting down the identity of my wife's rapist
I had no idea how poorly I would handle the details and once I knew the identity of my wife's rapist I had a home for my anger/rage. He takes up real estate in my mind and not only does he not pay rent the anger is damn near cancerous. With justice, revenge and forgiveness as I understood (misunderstood) it left me no options. Then 2 other things happened:
1. A member here wrote something on acceptance that basically said accepting something happened does not mean acceptance of the event. I know that is simple but we are dealing with me here.
2. I heard a definition of forgiveness that was not only acceptable but far more accurate than my previous definition. It was on an Oprah segment on forgiveness that defined forgiveness as "giving up hope that the past could have been any different".

Once I gave up hope that I could change what happened to my wife and accepted that it happened without accepting the act of rape forgiveness became a viable option. The Christian version that was instilled in me was too charitable. In a normal situation that requires forgiveness the other person knows you and what happened whether they agree with your interpretation of events or not. In my situation my wife's rapist has no clue who I am. Forgiving him is not a gift to him. Forgiving him is a gift to myself. By forgiving him my anger towards him becomes homeless if that makes any sense. I realize this may be a selfish interpretation of forgiveness but I also wonder if it is not the correct interpretation. To be honest I do not care. Whether operating under my old definition or my new one forgiveness benefits the one who forgives more than the one who is forgiven and it is far more beneficial than not forgiving at all which is where I was/have been for a long time. The realization is relatively new but it feels like a weight has been lifted. I don't know how to explain it but I feel like I am making some true progress. I'll give it the test of time and see. Once again thanks to everyone who contributed to this thread. One of you in particular and you know who you are.