Let's discuss "harrassment"

[Ronin]

So if I joke about estrogen, it isn´t meant as something offensive.

(To get back to the original topic, & this post gives me quite a fine chance to)

One thing I'm wondering about though, anyone whose experience with hormones differs from the norm is going to have a different position than the men we were talking of in the beginning post, and personally I'd think it's that difference of experience & perceptual switches that changes which comments they're entitled to make, and which better stay off no matter what.

I don't believe people who never had an experience with rapid fluctuations are in a good taste to make comments on it, informed enough, caring enough, and needing that space for their voice. (Not saying don't speak up / freedom of speech and all. Just that it's going to start off in a disrespectful manner and bad taste because of privilege, and could have been saved, as it's out of context of their experience. I don't believe in putting down / judging whole classes of people that I have no direct or relevant experience of.)

Though I'm not sure there's clear cut lines for responses on harassment; I tend to go if it's likely to open someone as a target more than they are, already, or designate as a target, and/or if it's likely to escalate a situation, just because those are two angles I grok and can make sense of, practically, judging on social norms and customs and locations isn't always so readable.

Which sort of brings me to a question, or maybe a thing to ponder: How do y'all judge what warrants a response, and what's more a sort of deserving only inner commentary / shrug and moving on, when it comes to harrassment?

 

[Sideways]

How do y'all judge what warrants a response, and what's more a sort of deserving only inner commentary / shrug and moving on, when it comes to harrassment?

Oddly enough, I try and judge it more by how well I’m going at that moment, rather than how offensive the comment is, or how open the person is likely to be to an alternative view.

Because commenting is more for myself than the other person. I don’t kid myself that I’m changing the world. I’m not. But I’m changing my ability to stand up for myself, to be able to ask for the people around me to treat me respectfully.

Disrespecting women in my presence, is disrespecting me. I’m allowed to say “That’s not okay”. I’m allowed to behave like I matter. That’s pretty huge for me. Asking for people to respect me is a big deal.

Part of my recovery is needing to be able to do that for myself, so if I’m well enough, I try and say something. Changing the dialogue to be more respectful for other people? Is bonus.

If I’m struggling? I’m likely to stay silent. And that’s okay. I’m learning to be okay with my needs changing, and sometimes my need is to not engage. Too much emotional toll. I try not to feel guilty about it.

My general rule? Look out for number 1. Everything else is bonus.

 

[joeylittle]

How do y'all judge what warrants a response, and what's more a sort of deserving only inner commentary / shrug and moving on, when it comes to harrassment?

To me, there’s a difference between harassment and discriminatory language/behavior.

Going back to the story @scout86 shared - I’d say those comments about estrogen were possibly sexist - but it’s not known whether they were doing it deliberately, or whether it was with malicious intent.

Had one of them opened it up to the present moment and said something like, “we have a lot of estrogen here, too, be careful!” - that would be purposefully making a negative comment against the women present, although perhaps not with malicious intent.

For me, whether it’s meant to be harmful or not doesn’t matter. If I’m confident it’s been said purposefully to the people present (whether it might have been about me or not), I do my best to respond to it. Some version of “hey, that isn’t an ok thing to say/do”.

I do my best. I don’t always succeed.

If something is clearly intended to harm, then it might be crossing the boundary into harassment. Or, it could be someone acting shitty for a moment. If it concerns me directly - like, if “watch out for the estrogen levels in JL there” - I’d say “That’s rude, possibly harassment. Don’t do it again”. If it was directed at someone else, and they did not have a response at the ready, I’d go with “don’t speak to her like that, it’s rude and potentially harrassment.”

In a work environment, I’d finish all these off with “we don’t have to like each other but we do have to work together” and then a proactive transition into a work task.

Social environment? Honestly, probably leaving the room/area.

(Why yes, I encounter this a fair amount).

My bottom line is, if I can be absolutely certain of something being deliberate and meant, I try and do what I’d want someone else to do, if I felt targeted and stuck.

But when it’s not clear whether it’s deliberate, and it’s a conversation happening peripherally, I find it harder to decide whether it’s worth saying something. I work so hard at not making assumptions - generally - and I think sometimes it stops me from trusting my gut about things like this.

That’s just me.