Limitations Of Current Research On The Debate For And Against Meds For Depression

[Queen Boudica]

Another excellent article about the current state of research and how we really don't know if meds do or don't work. The current research has limitations and there must be work to improve this.

http://www.theguardian.com/science/head-quarters/2013/aug/15/antidepressants-depression

 

[garden]

It looks like the jury is still out.

I like the last part though:

"more robust research that isn't influenced by monetary gains or emotional predispositions towards one outcome or another. Until we get those sorts of studies, inflammatory and ill-informed posts that berate the use of antidepressants, or which casually refer to "SSRI-munching depressives", only serve to stigmatise depression and isolate sufferers."

 

[Queen Boudica]

yes, plenty of inflammatory stuff going on. I guess also doesn't help that people are feeling they are railroaded into things they don't want to do and there are a lot of side effects for something where the jury is still out on. So people should be made aware that SSRI's the research is not conclusive and it is up to them if they choose or not. There is a lot of push to take them and it is your own fault if you don't get better quick enough. I've never heard of the SSRI munching depressives term before. That is really wrong.

On the side note over here we have had the government now saying benefits will be cut to those who don't vaccinate their children. Now that is something that has a whole load of evidence backing it up. But this action by the government has now causing a backlash and there are people comparing vaccination to the act of rape. Unbelievable. People will come up with any inflammatory remark to get their point across, but there is a step too far.

 

[joeylittle]

It's a nice piece.

I'll say, I've learned more about what meds work for who, when, by talking to people who take them. I'd consider myself pretty well versed in the research on both sides - but at the end of the day, it's talking to a bunch of other people (through forums, in life, and from my Psych's experience) about how the stuff hits them and what it generally does - that's the real info.

I hope they figure out how the brain works soon.

 

[SeaQuel]

So people should be made aware that SSRI's the research is not conclusive and it is up to them if they choose or not.

Yes! Thank you for saying that.

When I asked my doctor why he was prescribing a specific SSRI (given that I had already tried one in the same family), he said that this specific SSRI had been identified in studies (or something along those lines) as being used to treat PTSD.

What studies? You mean, the ones sponsored by the pharma industry that are based are zero evidence? He should have said that it had been identified as a possible treatment for symptoms of PTSD, not PTSD.

(By the way, I haven't read the article, but will do so when I'm able.)

 

[Queen Boudica]

He should have said that it had been identified as a possible treatment for symptoms of PTSD, not PTSD.

Precisely. He probably has been persuaded by some rep that this is the latest drug to treat PTSD with a summary of the research that puts bias on that result. Bet if you read the research it says no such thing. It would probably recommend more research, unless of course it is funded by the drug company. So that is not ethical.

Yes more independent research not paid for by drug companies, but in reality they are the ones with the money to fund the research (which they are getting off us) Maybe all us mental health sufferers would be better to donate towards an independent research agency with no influence from the drug companies. We could even volunteer to be the subjects of the research. But somehow I think the drug companies would try to shut that avenue down. And those with mental health illness don't have that much money to spare, probably because we are spending on treatment that doesn't work and we are left struggling. (I'm just being a bit negative about the whole thing) But it does seem it is a vicious circle.

This is why it is so important we are armed with the information about the research and the drugs and the treatments available. So you have the power and the choice and are not pushed or cajoled or given misleading information. That I think is the importance. And I think @joeylittle is right, I think we actually learn a lot more from the experiences on here. And that should tell us something. We are all individual and our situations are all different and what works for some will not work for others and looking at a bit of research which is probably funded by a drug company will not tell us if it is right for us or not, I suspect, it just gives us more information, but we must be able to interpret that information without bias and that is not what is happening. We are the experiment I think. Us going to our GPs and psychiatrists and being given drugs. We are the real people.

I will never choose drugs because of what happened to my sister, I have so much fear I think it would just make me worse, because of all that goes on in my head because of what happened with my sister. That is my choice. I do other stuff, I am reliant on a psychologist and that has been working. My choice. If it ever does not become my choice then that is the time I know it is time to leave this planet, because I've had enough of people trying to control me and mislead me (that's my choice)

 

[ms spock]

I had the other push. I was told anti depressants were really bad and part of big pharma, and all pharma is evil and told it was a failure of will and myself to take the antidepressants. I was one of the ones that delayed for a long time before taking them because of it being "my failure". So I guess it depends where you intersect with the debates and your lived experiences.

I am lucky enough to not have a condition, like bipolar or schizophrenia where I don't have to take life long medication. Because I am doing so many things for symptom management, I am (under medical supervision) weaning off medication.

It did take a long time to get the medications right - and GP doses of medication are very different from psychiatrist doses of medication. If I went to a GP they were alarmed and said so you sleep all the time with taking that medication? No I didn't. My anxiety and depression were that bad.

I think being pushed either way is not helpful. For various reason I missed out on having a life, and one was incompetent abusive psychologists and the other was being too young at 15 to filter out all the people with their alternative medicines and shaming if you didn't fit into their paradigm.

There was a woman at university that got a huge amount of pressure to go off her medications, and she did come off it and she became homeless, and she was raped and then she died homeless - when her bipolar became bad none of the people who had pressured her to go off her meds helped her, and even some maintained it was her "choice". No she had no choices once she was off the medications - her mental illness was that bad without medication.

I think @Lizio is right, having independent researchers that are not influenced by big pharma are a must. I don't know how we go about securing that.

And I am annoyed that there is not more transparency with the research - so many medications didn't work for me and caused me great distress. If the research was more transparent and open I could have done more research to find out which ones were more likely to work for me.

I almost died from a medication reaction in 2013 and it was pretty scary. I was the 1 in an astronomical amount who had the reaction. I will never take that class of drugs again.

But the thing was that I had MDD and without medications I just couldn't get off the ground. So everyone who hassled me about being a flunky of corporate Pharma didn't help.

 

[Friday]

I think being pushed either way is not helpful.

^^^^^
This.

Meds are a tool. Whether they're the right tool for the job at hand? All depends.

 

[Mit]

Anti-Deps certainly helped me, once I found meds that didn't make me feel worse due to side effects. My partner says that I am noticeable worse since I stopped all meds two years ago. But they are not a long term solution on their own. I agree that mindfulness has huge potential to be helpful, if you have the self discipline to use it regularly (which to date I have struggled with).

 

[Queen Boudica]

I also think this article is useful summarising the history of serotonin and depression

http://www.bmj.com/content/350/bmj.h1771

"This history raises a question about the weight doctors and others put on biological and epidemiological plausibility. Does a plausible (but mythical) account of biology and treatment let everyone put aside clinical trial data that show no evidence of lives saved or restored function? Do clinical trial data marketed as evidence of effectiveness make it easier to adopt a mythical account of biology? There are no published studies on this topic.

These questions are important. In other areas of life the products we use, from computers to microwaves, improve year on year, but this is not the case for medicines, where this year’s treatments may achieve blockbuster sales despite being less effective and less safe than yesterday’s models. The emerging sciences of the brain offer enormous scope to deploy any amount of neurobabble.21 We need to understand the language we use. Until then, so long, and thanks for all the serotonin."

 

[fellowsufferer]

IMHO I don't think it's not only about that seretonin stuff. There's much more involved, but they don't want to admit it, because they still make much money out of it! i hope there will be a next breaktrough in that field!

 

[Deleted member 1860]

Somehow I don't think you can narrow down to depression to just a few causes (imbalance of seratonin, norepinephrine, dopamine, etc). Many people can fix/cure/heal their depression by other means. I have depressive episodes but medications send me manic, which pretty much points to me not having an imbalance of the chemicals that psychiatric medications target.