Living With Constant Guilt...

[xena21]

I live every day feeling like I'm a horrible person, and a constant sense of shame overwhelms me. It's like I'm weighed down with this guilt and shame that I can't dismiss or work through. I've tried things to deal with it. I wonder if it's a part of me?

Every day is a struggle to get through and make it to the next day. I use distraction techniques I learned on my own as well as in DBT (Dialectical Behavioral Therapy) to get through each minute of the day...get up, make sure the dog is taken care of, find things to clean, listen to music, go on the computer, find more things to clean, pet the dog, clean some more, watch tv, play a puzzle game, and go to bed. Repeat...

If I don't keep myself distracted then I end up hurting myself. I constantly have the urge to hurt myself or die. When I see things on tv or read about them on the computer about people being killed, it just makes my guilt go through the roof, because I wonder why couldn't that be me, and not some innocent person. I live in Boston, and when the bombings happened, I was so overwhelmed with guilt that I wasn't the one killed or hurt instead of those that were.

I wonder sometimes why I was born, and then the religious guilt comes in. I was raised in a religious household. I never stopped believing in God though. Actually that's one reason why I am still alive, despite the fact I have tried to die several times. It's like I'm caught between the two, life and death. I am afraid of this world and can't stand being alive, yet I am also afraid of the next. I was told by a relative that one of my abusers was in Heaven when I was a child, so I was always weary and nervous about Heaven.

Anyway, I was wondering if other people can relate to this overwhelming guilt? Do other people struggle to live there lives every day just to make it through that day? Thanks for listening.

 

[Lady of Longbourn]

I can relate and I feel the same a lot too. I wish I had some advice for you. It's a horrible way to live your life.

 

[xena21]

I'm sorry you feel that way too. It is a horrible way to live. I wish you the best, and hope you can find an answer.

 

[Muzikluvr]

Anyway, I was wondering if other people can relate to this overwhelming guilt?

Yes. I feel guilt and I feel shame. I have recently watched this video and I found that her explanation of shame was really able to explain everything about it to me. She said, "Shame is feeling like there is something about myself, that if others knew it, they wouldn't want to connect with me anymore". That definition speaks to me because there are sooooo many things that I've done, said, and had done to me that I feel like people would run the other way if they knew about them. It's especially comforting to me to understand why I feel ashamed of being raped. When I told on the rapist, he was able to turn many people against me, and others left me because they were afraid to be involved, one way or another.

I definitely have a lot of experience with being shunned, dismissed, disregarded, publicly humiliated, intentionally shamed, ridiculed... and especially, Abandoned. All in childhood, and all continued into adulthood from time to time. So, it really is no wonder that I feel so much shame... if shame is defined as above.

For some things, I feel a guilty type of shame. I mean, I am ashamed of myself, but it is because I am guilty of something. I've actually done something or failed to do something, that I, personally, am not proud of. Sometimes it's unnecessary, like when I feel guilty for not pursuing my dreams. I didn't hurt anyone, but I failed to be my best me. When I think about someone asking me "Why didn't you?", then I can feel my cheeks turning red with embarrassment. I am ashamed (guilty-shame) that I couldn't/didn't even try, and no response that I come up with seems to justify it. I feel like a loser, and like the successful person will want to distance herself from me because I am obviously a quitter. I think that's guilt, but unhealthy guilt. I reason that out with memories of what I was going through at the time, and what I was cognitively aware of then... how I made decisions with my limited information at the time.

But, other guilty-shame that I feel are for things I did, or didn't do which society would hate me for... that's tough to live with. It's not just MY internal expectations that I've failed, it's also society's expectations. I reason that I would forgive others who've committed such acts, I have forgiven them. Most of these, personally, fall under the heading of "I am a coward because...". I think a lot of people respond cowardly in situations that they are surprised to be facing, or which overwhelm them in some way. That's why those who behave with courage and strength are called "heroes".

The layers get deep when I feel guilty-shame for things that I personally am not proud of, that society would hate me for and that my husband and/or children might leave me over. You see it does change things when you consider WHO might no longer wish to be connected to you if they knew. That kind of shame can really lead to suicidal thoughts, at least for me.

Another layer to that, is thinking that my husband and children will be shunned if anyone knew about my shameful experiences. That one will also have me thinking suicidal thoughts... of course, suicide would also bring shame to my family.

This definition of shame also helps me understand why I feel so ashamed of being manipulated, tricked, etc... I fear people stating, "Why didn't you just..." or "How could you fall for that?"

I really, really hate that people have "tried to teach me a lesson" through the use of shame. "Well, you wouldn't listen to me, so I had to show you." "Now, maybe you'll think of others first!" "Now you know how it feels!" "Ha! I told you!" All these things were also said to me by a rapist, so... that may be affecting how difficult it was for me to actually learn anything from the experiences that people set me up for. People put on some elaborate plans to "show" me the error of my ways, sometimes the fact that they'd been so elaborate made them feel surreal to me. I would then depersonalize and dissociate, and obviously... the lesson didn't get learned until 10-20 years later, when I recovered my traumatic memories. I recovered these memories with those traumas... and was shocked to see how many times the "lessons" were repeated by various people. I learned that I am a selfish, prejudiced, whiny, coward. I am still ashamed of it. I still live my life under those labels.

Well, that's where I am in my study on why I feel shame and guilt. I am feeling so much better about myself these days, and I think a lot of it is due to understanding these feelings and putting them in a proper perspective. Here are a couple more links to other shame and guilt pages which might be useful to you, [DLMURL="https://www.ptsdforum.org/c/wiki/guilt-and-shame/#shame"]Wiki Shame and Guilt[/DLMURL], [DLMURL="https://www.ptsdforum.org/c/threads/healing-shame-vulnerability-20-minutes-worth-your-while.29490/"]Healing Shame & Vulnerability[/DLMURL].

Wishing you the best,
Muz

 

[xena21]

I feel like a loser, and like the successful person will want to distance herself from me because I am obviously a quitter.

Thanks for your reply. Yes, I can relate to feeling like a loser. It kind of goes hand in hand with my guilt most days now. I know when you talk about not living up to other people's or your expectations that feeling becomes overwhelming guilt or shame.

My plan to work in my chosen career well into my later years was derailed by my ineptitude when I overdosed and had to medically retire. That job wasn't my life, but it was something that kept me on track and kept my mind focused. It gave me people to talk to and a place to go. It gave me a sense of purpose. Once I lost that everything was shattered. I know it was a matter of time before things caught up with me, but I had my life working successfully to those on the outside.

After that it seemed like the PTSD symptoms took hold with a vengeance. My childhood and every guilty thought and feeling I had was highlighted and couldn't be shaken loose. It's like I regressed backward and I don't understand the world.

 

[saffy]

Hi xena21,

I hope you don't mind me prompting these questions for you to consider.

and not some innocent person.

Are you not an innocent person then? :)

What are you guilty of then?

Guilty for just being here? As one of Gods children you are supposed to be here, aren't you?

I just wonder when I read your first post about how skewed your view of religion may be.

I was raised in a religious household.

Would it help if you started your religious teaching from scratch. It appears that the household has raised you in their version of religion, but this does not sound the right way to me.

No religion is supposed to make you feel guilty, bad or sad. The point of having religion is that you can awaken yourself to the 'will of god', if you like, or to follow a deity that spreads love, compassion and humanity. It does not sound like that was spread in your household, to be honest.

When you are brought up in a certain set of values that always appears abusing or contradictory but is hidden under the guise of religion, their interpretation of it, or at least their wall to hide behind when they know they are not really practising what they preach.

With this in mind, have you been conditioned to feel guilty about being here? Were there comparisons to less fortunate people in the world? Was there conditions that made you feel there were people more deserving than you?

I know with myself I felt guilty because of the type of conditioning I was subjected to as a youngster. When I realised that those who were conditioning me were not doing it in my best interests but in their own, to control and bully me into something else so I never felt worthy but guilty about everything.

I know when you talk about not living up to other people's or your expectations that feeling becomes overwhelming guilt or shame.

Which kind of explains the above feelings. If you are conditioned to think that what ever you do it is not good enough then as you grow you will have no confidence in ever achieving anything for yourself. When you have been constantly told that there are others more deserving, or that you must serve others (although the meaning of serving has been lost in the argument that you are unable to please anyone, if that makes sense), or that if the other person is not happy you must have done a bad job etc etc etc, then there is no surprising that we all feel a high sense of guilt and shame if you feel you will never be able to live up to others expectations.

But who set those standards in the first place? IF you think those standards have been so high it has made you feel like this, are the standards just too impossible?

If someone came up to you know and constantly told you you were useless, not deserving or that if others are not pleased all the time you should feel guilty about it. You are not responsible for others happiness, by the way, the same as they are not responsible for yours.

Sometime when we can change the way we think because when you look at it clearly, it is irrational thinking really, we can see what others do want and see what you want too without thinking of others first.

I hope this all makes some sense. It is a way of explaining my journey a bit. Although my family were not religious, my step dad had catholic upbringing tendencies and used it to his advantage when making me feel guilty or shameful. I had a very skewed view of religion and god.

I am not religious now though, more spiritual, and found the correct way of things by reading taoist teachings which did actually speak of love, humanity and compassion but in a way that you can serve others by showing this and feel good about it, not guilty or shameful. There is nothing else to do to make other happy and pushing for anything else is just bullying and control to get their own needs met.

I realised how manipulated I had been all along and that also made me feel guilty and shameful for a while, then I forgave myself for being naive and believing people who society said I should (i.e parents). ;)

Best wishes

Saffy :)

 

[Mayday]

It's like I'm weighed down with this guilt and shame that I can't dismiss or work through

Yes, I often feel this way. I'm torn between knowing that it's not rational but 'feeling' it anyway.

Guilty for just being here?

This applies to me. I often feel guilty for just existing, because I was constantly told as a child that I was not meant to have been born, as though it was my fault or something. It's hard to get past that sort of programming.

with myself I felt guilty because of the type of conditioning I was subjected to as a youngster

I think this is really important to keep on thinking and telling myself. That it really isn't me, it was the people and situations around me as a child. I hope that I can continue on and forgive myself also for believing this for so long.

 

[Upside Down Eagle]

I used to feel a lot of the things described above, along with the guilt of existing. But I've always fought the guilt-trip with anger, maybe even replaced it with anger. The anger goes something like this: "I am TOO worthy of everything! I am TOO equally deserving, even if they told me I was not. I was incredibly angry that my parents had made me feel like I wasn't even worthy of existing on this planet. Like I had to feel guilty because I was born and messed up their lives by doing so.

So anger can really help you if you use it this way. Anger has given me enormous courage, do to things that have proven my parents completely wrong. I think it's very important for you do to things that you can be enormously proud of, that are a bit of a challenge to you. Personally when I started doing this, people in my environment actually started telling me that they admired me and were kind of jealous of the things I did. Can't tell you how good that is for your self-esteem.

I still feel guilty frequently though, but not for existing (not anymore). I feel guilty, because people take it personally all the time when I get an anxiety/panic attack or give an angry response when I feel threathened (even though the threat is not even there). My dad has ignored me for seven years because I was mean to him as a teenager suffering ptsd. He did not understand why "I was taking it out on him", even though I was not consciously taking it out on him because of him. He just came too close to me and I couldn't handle that.

People take your ptsd very personally, and when they get close to you or help you, they can't seem to understand why you react like you do. That's what gets me into the guilt trip, such a thing actually happened to me yesterday. I just have to remind myself that I'm not "arrogant" and a "bitch" like they say, but it is the anxiety that makes me act totally unlogical. Then, I try to explain it to these people and hope they will understand sooner or later...

 

[xena21]

Are you not an innocent person then? What are you guilty of then?

Hi Saffy, It's hard to explain what is going on in my head and why I think these things...at least simply. I don't feel in my gut that I am innocent. I don't feel "evil" per say, but not as deserving as anyone else, and extremely guilty for still being alive. I always knew I was loved by my Mom, and I think the burden I have felt from not being the person I thought I should be plays a large part.

My Mom was a teenager when she had me and struggled to keep us in a place to live and fed. It was just the two of us, and we relied on others for a lot of help. Those people hurt us (me, but her through guilt) a great deal. It has always remained close between the two of us, and I don't trust anyone else.

My plans were to help her see I was a good person, successful, and able to live normally with a family of my own that she could dote over. She loves kids. I just couldn't do that for her...or for me. I always felt ashamed of things. I never got close to anyone even remotely enough to think of a relationship, never mind a family.

Guilty for just being here? As one of Gods children you are supposed to be here, aren't you? I just wonder when I read your first post about how skewed your view of religion may be.

I feel guilt about being here as the person I am. I am confused about life totally...and my constant feelings of impending death are always hanging over me. Life has always been a question mark for me. I had thought it was just to do God's Will growing up, because that's what I interpreted what I heard. I wanted to be "good" and do everything as hard as I could. I thought I would be judged accordingly.

From what I felt growing up, I was a freak and early on I felt "wrong" at living. It's hard to explain what I mean...just an interpretation I felt from what I got from my surroundings. I was always afraid of doing the wrong things and just plain afraid of life.

I thought I could make up for my shame by joining the military and law enforcement. I believed it would give me a sense of victory in life and confidence. I wanted to learn self-defense and be helpful to society. I thought this would please God too. I just never lost the shame or guilt, and never gained the confidence.

Were there comparisons to less fortunate people in the world? Was there conditions that made you feel there were people more deserving than you?

Yes and Yes.

The way things played out I believed I was abnormal, and that I was lucky to be in the places I was. I thought I was being selfish and a bad person to think I should have better treatment.

As far as religion goes, I did try to figure out my own path in a sense. I never stopped believing in the God I grew up believing, because despite the guilt I felt from life, I always remembered being taught about Jesus and how He can be with you when nobody else is. I had a hard time thinking of God and Jesus together. I always thought in my head that God was taking note of my sins while Jesus was watching over things. It was confusing to me. When I was little I would think about Jesus sitting with me or standing there when everything was going on. That's how I made it through a lot of days.

Now I still believe, but the guilt has remained.

 

[saffy]

HI Radise and xena21

Anger has given me enormous courage, do to things that have proven my parents completely wrong.

I believe that there are stages we go through. For a long time I felt like xena, then I felt like you.

I used anger to keep people at a distance. I could call myself an angry little women. For years I managed to conquer stuff and I am still very proud of that. I hope you are too Radise :)

The third stage though is, I think, an important part of recovery. I am learning how to accept inner peace. I got tired of being angry, it made me look old. In the end I thought I had to improve something else in my life so that all my negative feelings could be phased out.

I really hope that your journey is also leading to this. I realised I was battling my own demons in the end. I chose to ignore negative inner demonic dialogue and chose to believe that I had good qualities and was worthy of being respected and treated with dignity and humanity and compassion by others.

I hated feeling ashamed. I got angry. I hated feeling angry. I found inner peace. :)

the burden I have felt from not being the person I thought I should be

Whose is that person? what qualities would she have? :)

I never got close to anyone

I am not surprised if you do not trust anyone. :) I understand that feeling too. I also recognised that I did not trust myself to know what to do. I had made mistakes before and taken people advice that has not been for my benefit instead of listening to my own instincts and judgement.

I was always afraid of doing the wrong things and just plain afraid of life.

Wow, they must have really sent you the wrong messages to allow you to grow and develop into a strong confident person.

I heard a saying once that if you hear something often enough you start to believe it. That could be your own inner dialogue or something others might say. But if this belief is based on negative qualities or beliefs then life will seem bad. :)

I thought I would be judged accordingly.

Who was judging you? are the worthy of judgement?

The way things played out I believed I was abnormal

I hope you do not know :) I wonder if your alienation was because you had a difference in opinion. It seem you were always in conflict with yourself and your surroundings?

There is nothing wrong with having different thoughts and ideas about things, that is what makes you individual and interesting, however, if you had this ignored and always told to do it another conflicting way then the guilt and shame will follow by never being able to fully embrace their ways or ever being able to please or serve them or be the person they want to mould you into.

Something to consider, maybe? :)

I am sorry if I speak out of term or have got this wrong. Just seems really unfair that you have been made to feel so badly about yourself.

I think you are good person by the way :)

That goes to anyone else who reads this :)

best wishes
Saffy :)

 

[Upside Down Eagle]

Hey Saffy and Xena,

I think your idea of stages could very well be true. I recognize a lot of things that Xena describes. Like thinking that I would probably mess everything up, and thinking that I would probably be experiencing more bad things, because that's "karma" for you, unconsciously I related everything I did to some future punishment. Of course we all live through our own situations so I can't really say the same thing goes for others.

I find that anger can get you out of that phase, when you start to get the idea that you are actually "worth it". Also (I read your reply on the skydive thing, thx!) yeah, I think I am finding peace, even if it's by taking baby steps, every time slightly more and a bit less angry.... most of all I find that once the anger becomes more manageable and less irrational you can really use it to crank up your self-esteem and shield yourself from other people who try to talk you into a guilt-trip because they can't understand why you behave weird a times. In tarot you have this one card called "strength", sometimes it's represented by a lion, who is being tamed by a girl or a grown woman. I love that card. Either the lion controls you and it's overwhelming, or you control the lion and feel it's power.

Xena:

I get that you would like to prove to your mom that you can have a normal life, I have been trying to convince my entire family of that fact, after years and years and years of my dad telling them weird stories about how twisted and manipulative kid I really was. I had to set all this straight and felt really guilty in the beginning too, I thought they would continue to believe I was a bitch, because maybe it was true. Over the long run though, I stopped doing things "for them" and more "for myself". It took me a minimum of five years, but they have completely changed their image of me.

Maybe not everyone can be convinced though, then it's better to just accept that and let them be maybe... it sounds like you're putting the threshold for yourself enormously high and then blaming yourself for not being able to reach it. I think "normal" people would have enormous problems being "good at everything", let alone someone who has PTSD. I find that through the years I have booked progress but I could never ever be good at it all. Also, maybe that's not the point of life, although that's easy for me to say because I wasn't brought up in a religious household (I do believe in God though). I can't tell you what the point of life is then, everybody has to figure it out their own way, but I think it's true that "Jesus loves you", to put it in religious terms. And he doesn't love you for what you "should be". He loves you for what you are, who you really are inside.

It took me a long long time, but sometimes I feel like the universe loves me. It's that feeling of peace saffy describes, I think. The only one judging you now, is you. It's important to forgive yourself but I know it's pretty hard when you've been told that you don't deserve it over and over. As for "making up for the shame" : I think maybe it was a good idea that you wanted to get a sense of victory and confidence. You wouldn't believe what it does for you! But the one thing there, is you need to find the right way to do that. I tried self-defense (Krav Maga) for a while, but it was too much for me, I just couldn't handle it. I had to find another way to achieve this, have patience with myself (as a sufferer of ptsd) and eventually I did.

Believe me, you are totally worthy of what you (deep inside) might hope for.
Everybody here is doing their best. Remember the treshold ;)