General Lying And Ptsd? Is This A Common Symptom?

[Anna]

I think it is unfair though to say it is something that comes with PTSD.

My partner lies all the time even when I know it. I have seen a lot of people do this, and none of them have PTSD. People just lie, the reasons behind it can be many, doesn't justify it, doesn't make it hurt anyless. It also can be bad if you are a sufferer and your partner lies because it adds fuel to the paranoia.

In general, I don't trust anyone. I keep my paranoia under control and just not let it bother me, especially if it is only small things.

What is annoying though is as some have said above is when the lies effect you financially, for example hiding spending or bills. My partner who does not have PTSD did this, not out of spite, but just because they were stressed. They didn't open bills, said they did (a lie) then I found the bills months later unopened.....

I ended up taking on all the finances and having to work it out, even though I am the sufferer my partner does not have PTSD, but they cannot cope with money, they have no idea about it. I cannot change that. To protect myself I had to take the responsibility on, was not nice, but that was the way it was..

 

[maddog]

I think the whole issue of lying is a complex, multi-dimensional and rather fascinating one, and definitely one which is hard to talk about honestly, I suspect for many people.

Brat, just wanted to say how much I appreciated your honesty, which can't have been easy to share.

It's true, absolutely everyone lies, for various reasons and to various extents, and I don't ever consider it to be directly attributable to PTSD in terms of it being a symptom. On the other hand, I do believe that PTSD can include a lot of the emotional struggles, interpersonal difficulties and other relational issues that tend to predispose a person to lying, so perhaps it could be considered something of a secondary symptom in some cases?

Personally, I spent most of my young adult life telling lies, lies about my childhood and my past, lies about my feelings (or lack thereof), lies about the ways I controlled my life etc. These lives never harmed anyone else and were designed merely to keep my true reality hidden, including from myself. They were very powerful though, and the ability I long since perfected to manufacture and hold onto such complex and ingrained lies is something that brings me a lot of shame and guilt now, even though I understand the origin of this tendency.

Thesedays, mostly I lie to avoid social situations, and that's sad, something else for which I feel tremendous shame, even though I can again partly rationalise the behaviour as self protective. There are better ways to deal with social anxieties and other difficulties, and it's these alternate ways I'm trying to work to develop.

At its worst, lying out of fear of my symptoms and fear of the truth being disbelieved, very almost cost me my job and the support of everyone who cared about me. For me, that was rock bottom when it came to self protective lying, and I've worked hard ever since to turn the behaviour around and learn to confront my truth and to allow/require others to do likewise.

It's difficult, yet important, to reflect on this stuff, so thanks for a very thought provoking thread.

Maddog

 

[discarded]

[quote
I understand this series of events like the back of my hand, Obviously i am not taking anything away from you own personal experiences i only want to reach out and help if you think it's possible!

Well done for speaking about it![/quote]

Thanks heaps, great to know there is someone out there who can relate. I don't know if you can help, I left him because it is what he said he wanted. He is still angry at me, still saying he is content to be just be on his own for now.

 

[mamachick]

maddog-actually it is one of the easier things to share. I have always considered myself a truth seeker, but I am much too tired to deal with reprocissions of smoking 2 packs a day vs one. I need no lecture. It is self harm at best I also lie to avoid social situations.

There are plenty of people who lie who do not have ptsd. I think the question I heard, was if anyone developed this habit after ptsd, and I have.

People lie for all kind of reasons. Out of fear, to deliberately deceive others, to take advantage of.
Sociopaths are huge liars, they will tell you whatever you want to hear to exploit you. Some make stories up that never happened. Liars come in all forms.

As a person who has honored trust her whole life, and did not lie even if it were easier, this is very different. A few years ago, one daughter as a teen asked if I ever smoked pot. Would have been easy to lie. I look lide someone who may not have and would have been believable. I told the absolute truth. We do not know if we will die tomorrow, and if you have the opportunity to share the truth of who you are with the people you love-I would prefer to die with them knowing the truth.

Interesting to me though, that I come back and tell it later when I have more energy and under different circimstances. ie yes I did turn on the computer but feared you would think that I was not interested, where in fact my nerves were exploding and I was feeling very overstimulated and the distraction helps.

With or without ptsd, if you find money missing from bank to pay attorney because husband assaulted woman at work, the problem is bigger than lying.

I dated a guy w/o ptsd-likely sociopath. He confessed he was about to loose his 80K job. He did not like authority figures and challenged them regularly. He was a UPS driver. Would never find another job like this. Of all the male supervisors that gave him trouble (in his eyes), and me trying to explain that they are just doing their job by what he thinks is picky, he never attacked. He was angry at a lesbian supervisor, wrote bad things on a porta john at a constructions site. It was traced back to him. It was the nail in the coffin. I lost all respect at that point. He would have a pissing match with a female, sometimes me. I allowed him to bring such misery to my life. I was not going to remain the victim any longer. When he did this, he was clear to me how he manipulated me in the past. Unfortunately, the situation got more dangerous before better. He ended up assaulting me and being arrested with 3 loaded guns and 2 knives. Some will go to any length. I do believe he was sociopath though.

I read somewhere that those with ptsd attract sociopaths. Also that bpd females attract bi polar males. It made sense to me. I could see how I was easily conned. His lying was the least of the problems.

 

[Anna]

I read somewhere that those with ptsd attract sociopaths. Also that bpd females attract bi polar males. It made sense to me. I could see how I was easily conned. His lying was the least of the problems.

This is really a terrifying idea. It also makes sense when I think about a few of my ex partners. Some of them were very bad people. Is there any research into this? Is it maybe because they sense we are mentally vunerable?

 

[mamachick]

Exactly-we are vulnerable. We desperately want to feel safe and stable and they sense that and provide a false sense of safety and security. They pretend to be caretakers and exploit. They know how bad we want to trust others, then challenge us, leaving us even more distrusting and damaged.

The co dependent falls for the alcoholic. They do the dance. ptsd ers do it with sociopaths too often. One personality plays off the other. Since the ptsd person is often hypervigilent, the sociopath enjoys the game of being the fox in the hen house, they are great gaslighters, manipulators, cons, will exploit for money, sex, power, and just for the game. They are puppet masters

 

[Shellbell]

I think everyone lies - even if it's only little white lies. "Does my bum look big in this?" the immediate reply without even looking from hubby "definitely not". Umm, yeah - he didn't even look :rolleyes:

I don't think lying is a PTSD related issue. But it can be a trauma related issue. Lying out of fear happens. Lying to not have to explain things that make you feel guilty, or ashamed, or to avoid disclosing the real reason. I have lied to get out social situations. I've lied to spare people's feelings.

Lying is a heart issue. It's all about what you are lying about and why you are lying.

I'm generally pretty honest and don't like it when people lie to me about important things - that's a trigger to cross them off my list of people to trust. I don't have many on my list left.....

 

[quaintpapercut]

I read somewhere that those with ptsd attract sociopaths. Also that bpd females attract bi polar males. It made sense to me. I could see how I was easily conned. His lying was the least of the problems.

I was involved with a self professed sociopath for a while and it destroyed me. While I had been living with symptoms of PTSD for years my experience with him is what threw me in head first to full blown, can barely function PTDS. It's been really difficult for me to come to terms with this "relationship" and the way I allowed him to treat me.

In terms of lying, I admit that I do have a propensity to not be truthful with my current partner and in the past with my husband. For me, I never saw it as a big deal as it was more of a way to compartmentalize certain aspects of my life. Also, as someone said, when your numbed out emotionally its hard not to do something when you don't feel bad about doing it. I now it stems from my trauma and my inability to trust people but I also know on an intellectual level that its not right. I just don't feel any remorse for these actions. For example, I have all of my partners passwords for his email accounts/social networking sites - if I didn't have these I wouldn't be able to be in the relationship as I would never be able to trust him at face value. I need proof.

 

[Eleanor]

Another possible variety of "apparently lying" that came to mind when I read the original post - my H just went through a phase of, I don't even know what to call it, "deja vu" or "quasi dissociation" or "flashback overlay" or something - where he was acting toward me as if I was his ex wife. He "snapped out of it" when I did two things that she would NEVER have done - and it was as if I came back into focus for him - and so he could "see" me without the filter of expectations about her coloring (literally!) every word I said. Was he lying about me and my actions? Techincally yes. He got me totally wrong, and refused to listen to my reports about me, or to think about evidence that counted against his global judgment that I was bad and out to get him. He was, if I understand it correctly, re-living that traumatic period, and acting it out again. Very painful for everyone.

Perhaps more to the point for the recent part of this thread, is the case of his ex, whom he perceived as an adept and utterly convincing liar when she was cheating on him and emotionally abusing his oldest daughter but who, in retrospect, may very well have been experiencing extreme DID and had "splinters" from her extremely abusive childhood. She appeared to be lying, but may not have been...

Lying is very often motivated by an instinct for self-protection.

 

[mamachick]

I do think there are those who believe what they are saying, for whatever reason. My sister has been known to tell a story of something that happened but it was not her that it happened to or with, it was me or another sister. It is like she has heard the story before and changed it to it being about her. She is convinced of it too. I dont think it is deliberate.

 

[SamerSue]

I have caught Wally in so many lies... It kills me when it happens, especially because it always seems to be something relatively minor!

Yesterday was the latest instance of it happening. I won tickets for us to see a college football game... His FAVORITE team. I found out only six hours before kickoff. The plan was for me to get my shower, and for him to get his when I got out. I got out of the shower in my bathroom and went to the bedroom, and he came out of his bathroom (we have separate bathrooms, as the master bathroom is TINY and he doesn't clean it, so I refuse to use it) and laid down on the bed. I asked him when he was going to get his shower, and he told me he already took one. I asked when, and he said just now... I said I just got out of the shower, did you take one at the same time? He said yes (which sounded odd, as he doesn't even flush the toilet when I'm in the shower, let alone take one at the same time). I asked why his hair wasn't wet, he said he dried it. So I went in his bathroom, and asked why his towel was dry, and the floor of his shower too. He kept insisting that he took a shower. I told him that I'd call someone else and take them with me, if he didn't take a proper shower right then, as we would be sitting with people I know (I won the tickets from the company that processed the paperwork on my new house - turns out that my broker had won the employee tickets to the same game!). He finally took a shower.

According to him, he didn't lie. But he hadn't taken a shower when he told me that he had.

Usually, the lies are over things like him eating the meal I had prepared for my lunch at work the next day, cleaning the litter box, feeding the chickens, and taking his medication. Oh, and drinking.

 

[mamachick]

SamerSue-he sounds very apathetic. Lack of hygiene and doing the basic life tasks sounds depressed and apathetic. I have been there-just not wanting to move, not caring about eating etc. Very self destructive. Now eating the lunch you have prepared for work sounds very selfish. I can understand the feelings, but dont understand lying about it. I have gotten so down that I dont feel like getting out of bed. I wouldnt tell people that. But also wouldnt lie about it so I dont know.

This must be very hard on you. Like having a child for a partner. Im sorry that you are dealing with this. How long has he been doing this? Have you tried couples counseling?