Lying and ptsd

[Upside Down Eagle]

I'd rather be in shit than dead.

You made me laugh out loud :D Thanks for making my day sir!

I admire people who live life as honestly as they can, and I try to do the same. But complete and perfect honesty just hasn´t worked out that well for me. Some will be inclined to take advantage of it. We go through life and become more cunning with age, that´s what I think.

This has been a good lesson for me. And an interesting discussion.

 

[Friday]

There's a difference between lying and discretion. Or, family saying:

"You don't have to lie, but you don't have to run around shouting the truth, either!"

It's not a black and white thing, where either you tell the truth/ the whole truth, to absolutely anyone and everyone at all times... Or you're lying. Just because someone asks, doesn't mean that you owe them an answer, much less a full and complete answer.

If I tell him the truth now, he will find out I have been lying, and maybe think of me as deceitful.

If you don't want to be thought of as deceitful? Either stop lying, or stop caring what people think. IE stop the the deceit, or stop the wanting to not be thought of that way.

However I´m tired of being treated like crap because of PTSD, and I don´t want people judging me or discriminating against me based on those things.

Lying is one way around that, for sure. But if you don't want to be lying, there are at least half a dozen other alternatives.

 

[Upside Down Eagle]

I´d like to reiterate, the lying was mostly to protect myself from institutional discrimination. Them knowing I don´t have a job would not make me an attractive tenant, despite the fact that I have disability income. I rarely lie to my friends, I lied to this guy because I did not know him before we met, and afterwards I did not know how to "untangle" myself from my own lie. That usually does not happen in purely business-based contracts.

I guess the lesson I learned from it, is just not to say too much until I actually meet someone. Then after I meet them and get to know them a little bit, I can decide whether to tell them the whole story. Or not to tell it to them but move on.

 

[PointlessExistence]

I lie all the time about having a job. People have no idea what I've gone through. There is no way I could ever explain it to them so that they'd understand. But if anyone could spend one-hour inside my head, thinking my thoughts, they would know. So I lie freely as necessary and feel no guilt at all.

You don't have to tell the guy the whole truth...ever. If you feel the need to eventually come clean, adjust the facts so that it seems that you hadn't lied at all. You can say that you quit your volunteer gig, and that you had an appointment with a therapist because you are feeling depressed. He doesn't need to know that you haven't volunteered in eight months, or that it's PTSD, or that it's actually your 164th therapy session ;).

To me, that's not lying. It's just putting a spin on the truth so that normies can understand without letting their preconceptions about mental-illness getting in the way. So try to find happy medium. Lie only as much as necessary and don't hate yourself for it.

 

[Friday]

I´d like to reiterate, the lying was mostly to protect myself from institutional discrimination. Them knowing I don´t have a job would not make me an attractive tenant, despite the fact that I have disability income

If you don't want to lie, but do want to protect yourself from discrimination, one trick is to move your disability income into a trust. And then set the trust to pay you out monthly. Then on your paperwork, that's what you write: monthly dispersement from trust € xxxx,xx

There are other options, of course. That's just one example.

There are times when the only way to protect yourself is via lying. A hint? If it's a white lie, or a social lie, then that's not the case. White lies & social lies are about making things easier for yourself & manipulating others. There are ways to make things easier & manipulate people without lying, if not lying is important to you.

 

[Freida]

Their first interest is always "are you functional in society" and second "do you make enough money". In my case, the answers to that are: "no" and "no", but both answers have a catch: since I am on disability, I can receive a rent subsidy

Them knowing I don´t have a job would not make me an attractive tenant, despite the fact that I have disability income.

I tell the business world that "I was injured in an accident while in the military and now I have a service dog who follows me around" with a bit of a laugh. That lets them know that yes, there is a problem, that it's nothing I'm going to explain, that I can communicate and function and, well, there's a dog involved." It's technically true so I'm not lying. More omitting details about the ptsd part. You could substitute 'car accident" "fell off a ladder" "recovering from a long illness" blah blah. I've found that when you blurt out a sentence like that up front and kind of laugh about it they don't really ask any more questions.

It's just putting a spin on the truth so that normies can understand without letting their preconceptions about mental-illness getting in the way.

Exactly! They don't need a diagnosis. They just want to know if the problem is going to affect their profit margin

one trick is to move your disability income into a trust.

That is brilliant!

 

[EveHarrington]

oh please. I lie my ass off. Why do you think I'm on an anonymous site for people with ptsd? It's the...

Amen!

You seriously crack me up.

Love this reply!

 

[Deleted member 487]

Your impairment/disability is, quite frankly, no one's GD business.

 

[Sideways]

@Rad - are you still looking for a new tenancy? If so, do you have in mind how you might answer when you get asked about your employment status?

It’s particularly tough handling that one, because like you said, landlords that know you’re on disability can be blatantly discriminatory about it. But certainly in a lot of places, it can have consequences for your tenancy if they find out you applied using false information..?

 

[Upside Down Eagle]

You can say that you quit your volunteer gig, and that you had an appointment with a therapist because you are feeling depressed.

I thought of something like this, but what you said is better :) If I ever need to twist the truth a little I will keep this in mind, thank you!

@Friday thank you, I hadn´t thought of that :). I´ll keep it in mind.

Yes, I´m still looking for a place. Most of the time though when I say I have a job, I mean volunteer work (so technically, it´s not lying - as I do volunteer work quite often). I just fail to mention the "volunteer" part, and most of the time, they don´t ask further questions. They do ask questions about how much income I have, which is where I run into a brick wall.

I live in a (moderately) crowded city, and housing is expensive, so cases like me tend to live on the fringe :inpain:. There is social housing but it has a 15 year waiting list (I´m in 2 years :D)

 

[Neverthesame]

My issue with this type of dishonesty is the fact that in the end, you're only fooling yourself.

Someone puts a gun to my head and demands I agree that the sky is green with purple polkadots?
You betcha. Honesty is pointless when brain function ceases.

Lying about who I am to someone else because I don't think they'll like me?
Totally useless.
Whether or not I am honest with this person, they still won't like me. The only difference is they don't know it yet.

If someone is going to dislike me for something I am doing that is not wrong morally or legally. I don't care to ingratiate myself to them. To do otherwise would be fooling myself.
Because at the end of the day, that person does not really like me. They like who I am pretending to be.
To befriend someone who will think poorly of me using a government assistance programme for it's intended purpose. Would be treating myself poorly.

@Rad sometimes people aren't going to like you. It sucks, but it's life. You don't deserve to have to lie to people in order to get on with them. You're better than that.
So long as you aren't abusing the disability assistance programme, you aren't doing anything wrong. Anyone who thinks otherwise is an asshole. You don't need assholes in your life.

Lying about yourself, so people don't dislike you. Doesn't mean more people like you, it just means you are surrounded by people who you need to be constantly on guard around. Sure, it's more pleasant in the short term, but in the long run you are having to spend time with someone who you know doesn't really like you, and for a stupid reason no less. It's stressful and not good for you.

Not trying to sound judgemental, do what you want, but that's what I think of those types of "white lies" and why I feel they're unhealthy.

 

[Upside Down Eagle]

I´m not worried about people not liking me. Discrimination based on disability is different than people not being into me as a person.
Discrimination based on disability entails people jumping to conclusions about you, and you therefore not getting a chance as a tenant, whereas people who seem "normal" (but possibly are not "normal" either) have a head start.

If you met me in real life, you´d be assured that I generally don´t give a crap about whether people like me or not. I´m not interested in those kinds of social conventions - I already have good friends. No need to impress anybody. I want to be given a fair chance when it comes to housing and work. And when people judge me based on their idea of disability (i.e not trustworthy), I am not given that chance.

Hell, you should have seen the clothing I wore in my younger days. I used to even wear a hoodie that said "motherf#cker" on it (yeah... eh... I had a "phase"). I´ve worn t-shirts with incredibly vulgar Happy Tree Friends depictions on them, pierced a few places, was altogether eccentric (and I still am, just not blatantly :D).

I´m the last person who gives a crap about what other people think. I want to be given an equal chance to other people. Think of it this way: imagine someone does not allow you to ride the bus because you have a disability income and therefore does not trust that you won´t try to ride for free. It´s an extreme example, but not sure how else to explain it to you ;)