Manipulation: A Personal Interpretation

[shimmerz]

I don't often hear people being manipulated to good ends, ie he manipulated me into accepting all of his lottery win, no strings attached, and it all worked out perfectly.

In the past ten years (since my PTSD) I have been manipulated by friends attempting to help me. I am still being manipulated by my SO. I know this. And at this point in time it is helpful to me because it is keeping me safe and helping me push along. We have both spoken about it. It is no 'dirty secret' and does not involve gaslighting. I think that is an important feature.

The question is, when one is allowed so much power over another's life.... when does the manipulator know when to hand the reins over again? I worry about the time that I will no longer need someone leading my life (which I do at this point). How will that be taken? Sane can apply to children growing up. As parents there is an element of manipulation and then a time to hand to reins over and say 'okay, I taught you, now go get it'. From my recollection, this isn't always a smooth process.

 

[mary1979]

I might be a bit like @mary1979 's ex, except that I think I also learned that gettin...

You are so on point @scout86.

You finally get the attention you were sobegging for and then you're like, this actually makes me feel WORSE than no attention..

Definitely a no win..

I struggle between fierce independence and relying too heavily on another.

 

[scout86]

I actually have no recollection at all of asking for attention, much less begging for it. I take that back, I can remember a few times when I had something I wanted to tell my dad and he was busy and asked me to wait until later, I just went to my room and the matter was never mentioned again. With my mom, it would have been more along the lines of "I'll GIVE you some attention young lady! :mad:" Not a place I wanted to go. Ever.

So, I can't say as I struggle with this, I just don't expect to be able to depend on anyone else for anything. If someone happens to be "there" for you, it's a bonus.

I can't help but wonder about the friend who was mentioned earlier (by @ladee ?) who was apparently going too far in looking for attention. How does a person decide what's "enough" and not "too much"? Where I grew up, I guess anything was "too much". What do you do if you feel you need attention and can't get it? (I know what I do. Obviously I just decide I don't actually need it. This might be why I kind of like CBT. I've been changing how I think about things since well before kindergarten, I just didn't know it was a "thing". LOL).

 

[shimmerz]

I think with neglect it starts so young (and hope for any type of attention ends so young) that you most likely wouldn't remember it Scout. So it may feel incredibly normal to not want any attention at all without any recollection of ever needing it, making it feel to you like it was just the way you were.

All babies need attention. To survive.

 

[scout86]

Well, I survived! :) So what ever I got, it must have been enough.

 

[The Albatross]

True story... an early in recovery mentor pegged me a "time and attention thief"... her way of saying I thought rather gently... that I was manipulating. It was a neutral comment in that she did not go on to list my wrongs or elaborate on the why's or wherefores' of the behavior. It was just a simple one sentence statement. I wrestled with it for a while... predictably being all caught up in the need to be heard, the need/want/desire to be related to and understood but hey, guess what? She was right.

 

[The Albatross]

P.S. Don't know that I actually conveyed any of that at all well... just in my case, the role/position/esteem held for her held sway against the perceived wants/needs/desires... just a thought.

 

[ladee]

@scout86 , for me, I started to noticed my energy level dropping when around her. A certain amount of dread of hearing all the drama. And I tend to listen to what people don't say, and I never heard her accept any kind of responsibility for the mess she was in, once again.. and I had known her for many years. The dramas were the same , just different places and people... it was not easy. But as I am learning to ask for help from healthy people, I am also learning about energy vampires.... And when I look up and see my 'stress cup' full of other peoples crap, it is time for me to give thought and prayer to the situation and do what I need to do....I am very much still a work in progress, but I always try trust my gut...

 

[scout86]

and I never heard her accept any kind of responsibility for the mess she was in,

So that might be a really important point? That she didn't use the attention to do anything constructive, she just wanted more attention? It was attention itself she was after, not actual help?

 

[The Albatross]

Crap now I'm over thinking and I think I'm talking to myself (trying to convey it cuz it was a salient point)... likely the word "thief" would be perceived in some circles as negative... but it was actually less so than being called out for being manipulative or ego centric. Hard to explain so with that I withdraw for now, but it made sense and was a very nuanced distinction for me personally. The difference being she could gauge me rather well and was face to face.

 

[scout86]

@The Albatross , I didn't reply to what you said because I couldn't figure out how to pose the question(s) it raised.

I would definitely have taken "thief" as a negative. I'd take it as taking something you aren't entitled to and I would have taken that comment as a nice way of asking me to shut up and quit asking for anything. But that's ME. What ever her point was, I think that was a diplomatic way to put it. Sometimes things need to be said and doing it as nicely as possible seems like the way to go. But, myself? I still have no idea what qualifies someone as a "time thief".

 

[The Albatross]

Dominating attention or the time of others... who have their own lives and individual concerns is not something I am "entitled to".