Manipulation: A Personal Interpretation

[scout86]

Have you come up with a way to tell the difference between "dominating" and "legitimately asking for"?

 

[The Albatross]

Basically @scout86 it was a mentor's way... in the language she knew from experience that would reach me... make the point... to call me out on a behavior/habit that was destructive.

 

[The Albatross]

Yup... I have. The nuance/filter is personal responsibility... and I don't ask for direct help or assistance unless or until I'm on the ropes, have exhausted all other avenues... then I toss it to peers. I am above all, personally responsible for my mind/emotional health and well being... how I perceive things and act/react. I have a healthy sense... now, about how my condition can effect and impact others.

Will or can expand on it later... over due to get ready for a training session.

 

[ladee]

For me, dominating is when we have no thought or concern if it's a bad time for the other person to hear our stuff. Like so many here, I don't ask for help easily, but when I do, and I read responses,,, I get it that I asked because I knew and needed to move on. And something said will always resonate with me...
But to keep going on and on and on, and never hearing or trying to do some things differently, but still talking about the same thing for days or months on end... I have to put a stop to it... it is being in the hamster wheel with them, and I have things to do and a life.... We aren't helping, we are enabling....

 

[UnKnown-Self]

I am at work and on my lunch getting ready to head back. I haven't had a chance to read a lot on the thread but I wrote this little realization in Note and now I'm posting. See you all after work!

I agree there is a huge difference between
consciously being a manipulator and acting out in manipulative ways and not being conscious of it.

That's where the work comes in. Awareness and willingness to change are key along with self educating through lots of research, reading and a healthy dose of self honesty.
Where the conscious and unconscious manipulation are similar is they are unhealthy ways of acting out to get a desired result.
Reading up on codependency was a huge eye opener for me. I was reading up on it to help someone else and was slapped in the face with my self reflection.
Example: I am constantly looking for outside validation but I will push it away when offered.
Someone will say "great job" and I will point out what was wrong with it. I will engage in an interaction with someone and before I do, I'll tell myself "you will not apologize or act less then. It's not necessary and it turns people off. It pushes them away" then I'll engage and do exactly what I said I wouldn't. I'll feel the person pull away, see it in their body language, a flicker of annoyance in their eyes and hear it in their tone when they either keep trying to reassure me because they don't want to feel like crap for not doing it or they shut down and change the subject dismissively to get away from me as quickly as possible.
So today I realized why I keep doing it. The pay off is validation I am no good. The pay off is I successfully pushing people away. I continue to keep myself isolated and feeling worthless because it's my comfort zone. I am my own worst manipulator and abuser.
So how do I change?

 

[The Albatross]

Awareness is half the battle the rest for a good long while around here for me was setting up and planning a series of goal challenges. AA has the HOW... honesty, open mindness and willingness. I became aware of issues because of mentors/peers or self examination... I asked for feedback and was open minded about what/how/if it was received... and I became willing to endeavor to do some things differently.

Substance addiction/abuse is not altogether different recovery principle-wise from mental health... a goodly percentage, like myself had a mental health diagnosis of some sort in addition to OR physical illness/ailments that were being masked. Just food for thought Alice. Hopefully assistive.

 

[UnKnown-Self]

@mary1979
"If I'd known then what I know now, I'd have been able to save our family"
You did the right thing in leaving not only because it was not your responsibility to meet his emotional needs but because it was your responsibility to protect your children. Their father was in his actions teaching them, this is how you cope and deal with life.

We can't save anyone but ourselves. We can support, encourage and be there for them but not to the point of being an enabler. The tricky part is knowing the difference. To be able to draw the line and stop from being caught up in the manipulative cycle.

If you enjoy insightful books try reading The Four Agreements by don Miguel Ruiz.

 

[UnKnown-Self]

@The Albatross said "Substance addiction/abuse is not altogether different principal wise from mental health"

I agree totally. I personally don't think a person abuses substances unless there is some kind of emotional pain or mental health issue.

I'm glad you found a support system that works for you. It can make all the difference.

I'm not so sure what "the food for thought " is though. Maybe it's just a saying you use or maybe you are saying look here and pointing in a specific direction.
I'm not trying to be dense, challenging or even manipulating :-) but if you could clarify that for me it would really help me reply.

 

[mary1979]

I

@mary1979
"If I'd known then what I know now, I'd have been able to save...

Thank you xxxx
I do love to read, I feel like I've heard of this book somewhere along the way, I will look for it :)

 

[ladee]

I'll not speak for @The Albatross, but the term you are asking about 'food for thought', for me it means, take some of things you have read and let your brain chew on that for awhile... as in thinking about, seeing how it would help us get well, ect... simply put, get us to thinking of other possibilities . Hope that helps, and @The Albatross may have a different meaning...
One of the things I appreciate about you is always ask if you don't know... I love that, that is how we learn.... :hug:

 

[UnKnown-Self]

:hug:@ladee

Thank you for that.

 

[oasis2003]

This is a really interesting thread to me I am reading along. My mother is and was extremely manipulative throughout my whole life. Thank goodness I am aware of her games now. I never ask for attention the best defence for me is and was to be invisible apart from when appeasing her needs / wants. Otherwise :mad::mad::mad: or being manipulative with other emotions over me :cry: for example. It is very sad having a manipulative and mentally ill mother why could we not have had a loving mother in an unconditional way ?