My Heart Is Breaking To Think This

[Jezanna]

When I take my service dog out we are almost always exposed to a unsupervised rowdy kid. Maybe it's my area of the country ( USA) I don't know.

 

[FindingMyself88]

@Jezanna it does seem that way! She has had kids scream at her before, or run quickly up to her. But this one came out of nowhere, screaming and flailing her arms at her. Then the parent had the audacity to give me a rude look because Bristol jumped and barked!

However surprisingly until now I've had more issues with adults.. I had one guy chase us around a store trying to distract her. I finally looked him in the eye and told him "Don't you know it is illegal to distract a WORKING dog?!" Then he left. I had another lady literally pin us into a shelf with her scooter so she could pet Bristol even after I told her no!

The hard part with kids is you can't blame them, it's their parent's fault! Some kids I have been able to educate by telling them you do not pet or distract a service dog, that they are working. But then you have these unruly brats who run around unattended by their parents..

 

[Justmehere]

Excellent work @FindingMyself88!

 

[Jezanna]

I know what you mean about the adults. One lady asked me rather rudely exactly what caused my ptsd. I'm a fiery person so I very loudly began telling her in gruesome detail. It shut her the hell up when I did and for me was quite freeing. I know its a big no no in the service dog world but I loved the look on her face. She won't be bugging anyone else.

 

[anthony]

I think the dog has to get used to this if you want it as a working dog. More exposure and allow it to get used to such things going on without getting angry.

 

[ghotiff]

Just a thought.....my kids school would be open to a request for a 7-8 year old to meet your service dog for the purpose of training the dog. They would see it as an opportunity to teach the children about service dogs. I don't know about the schools in your area, but you could send an email and see ?

 

[FindingMyself88]

@anthony I definitely agree and this is why I took her to wal-mart and allowed her to see the children without getting too close. I wouldn't say she gets angry, she is very curious and then with that kid literally attacking her, there is some fear there now. This is why I give her treats and plenty of love when she reacts calmly to the kids so that she begins to associate the kids with something positive.

@ghotiff that is a very good idea, however I need to start off small. I think taking her into a whole classroom of kids would be overwhelming for her right now. There is a school like right next door to my apartment. What I am thinking about doing is walking down there when school lets out and standing on the other side of the street and just letting her see the kids, then slowly get closer and eventually do what you suggested. Thank you for the suggestion!

 

[Jezanna]

one of the kindle books i have on treating a fearful dog, is to have on person stand and under hand throw a high value treat(hotdog, bacon) to the dog then walk away. no words are spoken at first and no petting. you watch your dog for signs of stress to determine how far back the stranger stands. i think i googled dog training forum to get the links to these books. they are thought highly of in dog training circles. im doing this now with my wash out service dog that was assualted and choked by a toddler in petco. while mommy was talking on cell phone. is it just a usa thing to not watch your kids? or is it rampant everywhere?.

 

[Wyakin]

Having worked with stressed dogs I agree with the assessment that you did too much in one go. There is a stacking element to stress which can make a dog behave seemingly out of character but actually when you look back you can see there were far more stresses than just the one that she struggled with.

Try to think of it in terms of you. Say you woke up, went out and someone bumped in to you on the street. You accept their apology and move on.

On a different day you get up but you're late because your alarm didn't go off. As you walk across your bedroom you stub your toe on the edge of your drawers. You have a shower and run out of hot water. Then as you pass through the kitchen to go out your mum accosts you about your laundry. Then you get out in to the street and someone bumps in to you. Suddenly that little bump is no longer just that, with all the other stresses you have had that morning your find yourself snapping at the person rather than calmly walking on.

Now I know that was in reference to anger but it works the same with fear.

It takes two to three days for stress levels to go down in a dogs system. If your dog has gone over threshold, as Bristol did, take a step back and give her a few days off just doing little things. Do desensitisation with children but not everyday. If you do it everyday then her stress levels will just keep going up until eventually she bursts at some seemingly random moment. We normally do desensitisation work every three days or so at work with any of the dogs with behavioural problems.

Do not necessarily stop the minute something goes wrong, always try to end on a good note. So if you are out and about and you have a negative incident. Try to give both of you a positive experience then head home. Bristol will feel good for getting it right and you will remember the good part after the bad.

Dog training is hard work especially when training for a purpose. There are always good days and bad days. Good luck. I am sure Bristol will get there with some time and patience.

 

[FindingMyself88]

@Jezanna Thank you for the tip. When I get to go back to my home city I may get some kids that I know will listen to do this with her. It is honestly a lot like her barrier frustration training with other dogs. As soon as she gives a calm response around a dog, I give her treats. So you had to wash your dog out because of that incident? That is awful! I am just thankful that Bristol seemed to bounce back most of the way on Monday. If I have to wash her out, I won't be able to get another dog and I am honestly too attached to her. She would have to become an ESA and I would have to try to find some other way to cope outside of the house.

@Wyakin Thank you for the good analogy, I do know I overwhelmed her at that is my fault. I did not know that about it taking 2-3 days for stress levels to come down, which it does make sense. So I guess it was a good gut instinct to give her Fri-Sun off with only one trip to the store on Monday. Thank you for your encouragement!

Can I get everyone's opinion as far as her dog issue? It is not aggression either. She wants to play and gets frustrated when she can't get to the dog. It is hard for me to do training outside of sessions with my trainer because I don't have but one friend who has a calm dog, and she lives over an hour away, but drives here everyday to work. I think though me and my trainer have been doing it a little backwards. We keep it at a distance and come closer, but never meeting. I think if we let her play with a dog some and then walked away it would work.

So something I looked into today is a local dog day care, but it is not your typical day care. They have trainers on site and you can pay for what is called intensive day care where throughout the day the dog receives 4 training sessions on basic obedience, or whatever the dog's issue is. This would allow Bristol the socialization she wants and some training. I called and talked to one of their trainers today and explained that Bristol is my SD in training and what her issues are. They said they could work with her on the issue. The trainer I talked to was familiar with service dogs and said she could also help me work on training Bristol the "brace" command for when I get dizzy and need to lean on her a bit. So as soon as my mom gets paid again, we are going to pay for one day and try it out. If it works, we are going to do it on days that I have therapy (Tues and Thurs) since I don't take her to therapy with me. I think this will give her the socialization and "fun" she needs and wants, but also working on her barrier frustration as well.


Overall, we still have a long way to go, but everyone keeps telling me that for only 3 months into training she is doing amazing! I try to remind myself of that when we've had a bad day. Thanks again for all the support :) I have joined some groups and pages on FB for owner trained SDs as well. The more support the better!

 

[FindingMyself88]

Ok so I decided to post something positive after our incident last Thursday :). We did some PAT (public access training) today at walmart. I did no shopping other than picking up some more training treats, just training. She did beautiful! She was more mildly interested in kids than she use to be, but she wasn't lunging at them or barking! We got several compliments while in line as she did her down stay and cover, where she lays down behind me to provide space so the next person doesn't crowd me. I got some pictures of her throughout the short session. We also tried something for the VERY first time! We have been slowly advancing our "leave it" command. We have done several treat drop and leave its, or walk by's and leave it. However, today I placed a treat on her paw and asked her to leave it and she did! The picture is below :) Not only was this her first time doing this, it was in walmart! So proud of her. The other pictures are of us working on down stays. She is looking sideways at the paint blending counter. The machine was really loud and they were beating the lids on. I decided to try a down stay close to that to work on noise tolerance too, which she did great at! The last picture is a capture of "look at me".

Overall I just have to keep reminding myself for only 3 months of training, she is doing amazing!

 

[Justmehere]

She is doing so amazingly well! And she is so cute too! It's great that you have joined some SD trainer groups too. They will have lots of the best advice.

Doggie daycare with staff that is very well versed in the right training techniques can really help many dogs with dog issues. SD trainers are generally mixed on this. I would highly suggest going and checking the place out throughly. I myself have had to use doggie daycare when I had very intense medical treatment and didn't want to kennel her every day. Two places I have been too were EXCELLENT. They reinforced her training so well, and followed the training techniques I have already been using. The other place seemed ok, but when I got my dog back, she was jumpier and worse with other dogs. I later found out that during the daily nap time, they were putting 2-3 dogs in a kennel, and the place overall was too crowded for her. She quickly bounced back to her normal self, and it was a good lesson for me.

Doggie daycare might help her feel less worked up about playing. It won't be so stirring for her. Guide Dogs for the Blind in the US socializes their dogs weekly. It won't be a full solution, but at a good place it could help!

I think though me and my trainer have been doing it a little backwards. We keep it at a distance and come closer, but never meeting. I think if we let her play with a dog some and then walked away it would work.

You are doing this on leash I assume? Is the leash tight or loose? Neither is bad, it just changes which way to go. I would say that generally though, this is the most common way to desensitize a dog to other dogs at first.