My Sister Masturbates In Our Shared Bed

[digger]

I think your best option is to speak openly and frankly with your sister about it and say that you don't like her doing it and that she has her own bedroom she can go to for that.

If you look up the definition/criteria for Post Traumatic Stress Disorder then you will see why people are confused about why, from what you have described, you thought it relevant to this forum.

Maybe if you are feeling extremely distressed by it this would be a better forum? [DLMURL]http://www.mytraumaticstress.com/[/DLMURL]

 

[Elsa Hardley]

Would you not be disturbed after watching your close family member touch herself..?

I guess I should stop replying on this forum, I just seem to be upsetting the members on it. Sorry for wasting your time.

 

[digger]

Yes, I would be disturbed, but I think it's unlikely that it would cause Post Traumatic Stress Disorder. I don't think you've upset anybody, I just think there might be places you could get better advice, which is why I suggested the other forum.

Having said that the advice you've got here anyway is pretty sound.

 

[cherryblossom]

so I thought maybe my situation was relevant, Sorry for going on your forum? Thought it would help I was mistaken I guess.

You might want to read about PTSD [DLMURL="https://www.myptsd.com/c/articles/posttraumatic-stress-disorder.7/"]here[/DLMURL] , and see if anything you have experienced and are feeling fits with PTSD. Personally I doubt very much that witnessing your sister masturbate fits the criterion for PTSD, but I'm not a psychiatrist.

It's not really a case of not being welcome on the forum, but at the end of the day this is a PTSD forum. If PTSD is not an issue in your life, then you are likely in the wrong place to get the right help and support that you need. You might want to try [DLMURL="http://www.mytraumaticstress.com/"]My Traumatic Stress [/DLMURL]forum. One of our sister sites, for all trauma types, with or without specific diagnosis for adjustment disorder.

 

[cherryblossom]

Would you not be disturbed after watching your close family member touch herself..?

Yes I probably would. But I also wouldn't choose to sleep in the same bed as my sister if there was an empty bed down the corridor. Personally, I find the concept of two older teenage siblings sharing a bed together a little strange when their is the option to have a bed each. But I totally understand that I don't know you or your life, and that my opinion is of little consequence.

For whatever reason, she has no qualms about masturbating in front of you. Masturbation is a normal part of life, particularly as a teenager, learning about your own body, and the responses that occur. It's nothing to be ashamed of. She obviously feels comfortable doing that in front of you. If you aren't happy with that situation, then you need to change that. If talking to her doesn't work, then move to your own bed. It doesn't have to be a big deal. You are at an age where you both need your own space. You are both individuals, and she clearly has less inhibitions than you, which is why you need your own space to grow as individuals.

 

[Barconian]

I can't help wondering if there is more to this than a masturbating sibling problem!

Why would 2 teenage girls, who are sisters, find the need to sleep in the same bed for so long? Is there a lot of fear in the house? Are the parents giving the girls what they need emotionally?

For a young girl to get on a forum like this, asking for help about masturbation, but also describes poor parenting in the house, intrigues me!

Does Elsa have high level anxiety problems? Is there a lot of fear in their home?

Nothing in life is as simple as it seems!

I had a girlfriend masturbate in bed beside me one night and I am a male! I felt really uncomfortable about her doing it and persuaded her to stop it.

 

[Abstract]

Elsa, I personally think your sister doing this shows some problem there. Yes people masturbate and it is perfectly normal but they don't do it in the same bed with their sister and especially when they can see it makes them uncomfortable. I think anyone would feel uncomfortable if their sister did this next to them.

I too wonder about a few things. I can see why you and your sister are unusually close. Your circumstances are unusual. I just think the closeness sounds a little extreme and possibly not that healthy. It also worries me that having enough assertiveness skills seem to be missing for you and that your mother is not teaching you to set boundaries. You are very isolated and as a result you are very emotionally dependent on your sister.

These things can set up a situation where you could get very unhappy and I think something needs to be done. Is there any way your mother would let you have counselling? I think it might help as the counsellor can guide you in how to set boundaries and be assertive since you are not getting this at home.

Not having these boundaries can get you into serious trouble later on in your life so it's best to do something about it now.

I think your sister shows a different presentation of not understanding boundaries. She masturbates next to her sister despite her sisters discomfort. She steals her clothes. It makes me wonder how your parents are teaching you both about boundaries.

If you cannot get therapy then I would recommend you look up online about assertiveness and see if you can join a social group to meet new friends. And move to your own room! If your sister won't move then move into her old one. I am sure you are probably overly attached and would find it difficult but it is the right thing to do here.

 

[ill]

I'm honestly a little flabbergasted by the ways in which this is being minimized and dismissed as merely awkward or almost normal.

Masturbation is normal, sure, but it's abnormal to masturbate in front of a family member and it's abnormal to masturbate in front of another person when they've explicitly expressed that they're uncomfortable and don't want to be included in your sexual behaviour. Awkward is when someone opens the door and catches you masturbating. Deliberately masturbating in front of your younger sister - including her in your sexual activity - when she has expressed discomfort and asked you to stop is beyond awkward and crossing the line into incestuous sexual abuse.

Honestly, I'm a little perplexed by the responses here, especially given that so many of us have been sexually abused, and often by trusted family or friends. Imagine that the older sister here was an older brother who has masturbated in bed with his sister against her wishes - really? Just an awkward adolescent boundary issue (because he feels comfortable?!?)? I don't get it. This isn't just a one time thing either - it's a pattern of behaviour. Elsa hasn't consented. She's expressed her discomfort and her desire for her sister to stop. Her (2 years older, almost an adult) sister isn't heeding her boundaries, is still masturbating in bed and giving her sister the eye as she does it and this isn't a massive red flag on this site? Elsa may not have a diagnosis of PTSD, she may not have PTSD (yet), but this kind of super inappropriate, rather massive boundary violation regarding sexually abusive familial behaviour seems to be a pretty common reason for PTSD.

@Elsa, How long after she moved into the room did it start? I can't imagine how difficult this whole situation has been for you. I can imagine how very difficult it's been for you to reach out and ask for help. I want you to know that I think your sister's behaviour is inappropriate and abusive. I do think it's traumatic to have anyone, but especially a family member, include you in their sexual activity without your consent. That is not okay. You should not have to repeat yourself here. You're not wrong for feeling the way that you do or for asking for help. I wonder if you would be willing to contact RAINN? I think they have both a telephone and internet crisis line. They may be able to offer you practical help and support in navigating this situation. I don't feel you've wasted my time, and I am thankful you reached out and asked for help.

 

[Barconian]

Honestly, I'm a little perplexed by the responses here, especially given that so many of us have been sexually abused, and often by trusted family or friends.

That little girl, came on here asking for help! Many of you might well of been that little girl before you got to the stage of having PTSD and wish that someone could have helped you then before it became a major anxiety issue for yourselves.

Masturbation, might be the subject Elsa wanted to discuss... Albeit, with all the information she had given within her subject, I bet pounds to peanuts that there is a lot more to this subject than just her sister relieving herself in bed beside her and I hope she finds help from somewhere!

 

[Abstract]

@ill, I certainly wouldn't call it abuse but I agree with a lot of what you said here. It's not acceptable for a someone to masturbate in the same bed and especially after they have been asked to stop. If there was intent behind it then it could fall under abuse (yes everyone, milder acts are also officially classed as sexual abuse if done with intent ;) ) but it seems she is making small efforts to hide it so it seems very unlikely to me. It is a however a boundary violation and any 15 year old girl would find it distressing to have ones boundaries transversed in this way.

I think it raises some serious concerns about the sisters behaviour too and don't think a situation like this should be left. At the least it may indicate that the sister is acting out sexually in some ways and could get herself into trouble if she doesn't learn impulse control and appropriate bounderies..

I am also concerned for Elsa that the lack of assertiveness skills could end up putting her in danger later in her life. Elsa, that isn't your fault and we rely on our parents to teach us boundaries and assertiveness.

If situations like this are addressed then it can prevent someone from getting PTSD later on. I could see the seeds for that happening later on here. The sister getting into trouble because of her sexual acting out and impulse control issues and Elsa getting into trouble because she hasn't learned how to protect herself.

That little girl, came on here asking for help!

I agree with this Barconian. I don't see any reason to assume there is anything more sinister going on but I do think this is an unusual set up in the family and I am concerned about general lacks for Elsa. I think it's very important to take someone's age into consideration when answering too.

@Elsa, you are obviously distressed about this and about how it affects your relationship with your sister which is a big deal as you are so isolated. I don't like that you are depending on smoking to get through this and I hope you get some counselling. Dealing with these things early can save a lot of pain and problems long term.

 

[ill]

@Abstract, what qualifies as intent to you? The fact that Elsa's sister is deliberately engaging in sexual behaviour that includes Elsa after Elsa has asked her to stop including Elsa seems to indicate some form of intent. Exactly how many times does one have to say no before it becomes sexual abuse? How many times does Elsa's sister get to dismiss and ignore her sister's no before we decide that she actually has intent? And does abuse really need intent in order to count as abuse? Do most abusive behaviours begin with an "I'm going to abuse you/somebody"? Even if Elsa's sister's intentions are not abusive, her behaviour and its consequences are. It's not that hard to masturbate in the bathroom or her old bedroom or to wait until Elsa's gone. This is a choice Elsa's sister is making, and one she knows makes her sister uncomfortable.

As for Elsa's assertiveness skills: By her own account, Elsa has asked her sister to stop multiple times. She has tried to speak to her mother about it and received a woefully inadequate response. She has reached out for help here. Those are all assertive actions. But how does a 15 year old enforce her boundaries in a family home where her mother's already made it clear that she won't help or support her daughter? Against someone she feels raised her? She leaves her room?

Non-contact sexual abuse such as this does meet the criterion for PTSD. Given what Elsa wrote in her first post, this behaviour may have lasted as many as two years. It's a family member Elsa trusts, who is supposed to love and care for her. By my measure, this shit is sinister and I am beyond flummoxed by the responses here. "What's so disturbing?", "Your sister's just comfortable around you," "I don't see this as sinister." If this is not sinister, then what exactly is? At what point does a sexual boundary violation by a family member no less qualify as sinister? If this were her brother, her father or mother, would the responses still be the same? When a man flashes a woman in the park or masturbates in a public place, he gets charged. Why do you think that is? Shouldn't we and the police just acknowledge and understand that he's comfortable around us, that it's not that disturbing, that it's not sinister? Seriously, I am beyond flummoxed that this board of all places is trivializing and dismissing long-term sexual abuse by a family member.

 

[Echo]

@Elsa - Since your mum didn't really help you very much with her response and your sister is not listening to your requests to stop, I think it is important for you to find some kind of adult support in all of this. I wonder if you spoke to your GP, he/she might be able to refer you to a counsellor to help you work through how to deal with your relationship with your sister. It might help to have an outside perspective. I don't know if you have asked your sister why she is doing this around you, but, for all sorts of reasons, she may not be able to say. The main thing is that you get non-judgmental help and feel you have someone to talk to.