BPD Need help understanding borderline personality disorder(bpd)

[circe47]

Anthony-

It wasn't my intention to measure my trauma against anyone else's; trauma being a subjective thing, anyway. For me, it comes down to many shrinks labeling people with a personality disorder (perjorative), because they don't have an official diagnosis for people those who have been treated inhumanely from childhood on, or have otherwise been victims of protracted trauma. That's what I meant by TPTB not doing persons with long, complicated histories of interpersonal trauma justice.

Hypothetically, of course, take a paramedic for instance. He sees horrific, traumatic things on a daily basis. But, he knew that going in.....he made a CHOICE. A CHOICE that doesn't change the way he feels about himself at the CORE. It's not quite the same thing as the loving, caring, honest, sweet wife who grew up battered, raped and otherwise abused, who continues the pattern subconsciously in her adult life. Her core was damaged, long, long ago and the way she feels about herself at the CORE is quite different. How is it that the battered wife has a personality problem, whereas the esteemed paramedic doesn't?

 

[Loveneverfails]

What I will say is that part of what has helped me is to accept who the person is and isn't. I think a lot of pain comes from expecting different behaviour or thinking things have changed when there seems to be a breakthrough and then only to be hurt again. True acceptance comes with a certain amount of peace as well as making it easier to put down boundaries.

Thank you for helping, you've just said exactly what I've dealt with so well I feel I could have written the above myself. And thanks again for seeing what I was trying to do, even when I didn't articulate it particularly well. I will try very hard to put what you've stated into practice when I'm feeling stronger, because I do want her in my life so much.

 

[Abstract]

LNF,

If it was me I would be very tempted to dump this thread and start another. And maybe describe some examples of situations that arise or dilemmas you have as that may stop it from getting sidetracked so easily. ;) May titled something like: what helped you have a safe relationship with your problematic parent?

I think it's very normal for those of us who have grown up with abusive parents to desperately want them to change and to therefore keep putting ourselves in hurts way or even danger. One of the other things I found helpful was to realise that assertiveness is not about changing the other person or getting them to have any realisations. It is merely about us and what we need to do to protect ourselves. Putting down a boundary. These two things can make such a big difference. Be prepared for backlash initially of course.

Before there was the appearance of much more closeness in my relationships with all my family. But I was internalising all the pain and continued abuse or hurts. Now it appears quite distant (my mother does not like it-surprise!) but it is sustainable and the damage manageable so I have not had to cut off ties entirely and that would have been my only other option. Even my relationship with my sister, who I am closer to that any other person, has had to be distanced and managed as she has many of my fathers behaviours and I cannot safely cope with them and end up with flashbacks and more.

Take care.

 

[anthony]

How is it that the battered wife has a personality problem, whereas the esteemed paramedic doesn't?

This has to do with training and support. Professions around trauma are supported with compulsory counselling and psychology, as well as training to deal with trauma. Doctors are trained this way, so that they aren't traumatised by helping others with trauma, however; still you will get one every now and then who is affected, whether due to their own sense of becoming too close to patients thus the affect is passed to them, OR, genetics and their environment prior has simply caught up with them.

Military are trained to deal with trauma. Trained to kill and fight. If that training didn't occur, then a lot more would have issues after a conflict than occurs now. One cannot have it both ways in the military. You are either trained to kill, thus you are trained to be aggressive, or not trained and likely the person won't act when required, thus killed themselves or their actions have killed many others. Military also have a lot of psychological support to assist.

Professions that are encompassed in trauma have those two things typically, as they go hand in hand. Training and support. Training typically encompasses exposure to trauma, repeatedly, in order to assess as part of the persons training. The weak fall-out of training, the stronger continue through.

A paramedic is repeatedly trained and exposed to put their feelings aside, and deal with the situation to save their patients life. If they became emotional or concerned about the person at a personal level, then they put that patients life at risk. Just like a doctor would in an ER if they hesitated due to their own emotions. Training, training, training. Support, support, support. Support also often is more encompassed via peer support by colleagues who have the experience and understanding, thus they can discuss with one another to rationalise. The severe then obtain higher level psychological support when peer support often fails them.

 

[circe47]

Anthony-

I understand everything that you said, having been involved in the medical field myself. I remember how I turned green and almost passed out the first time I assisted with a medical procedure. In time, I became desensitized to the site of blood, the excising and suturing of flesh. Looking at it, looking away. Looking at it, looking away.....repeatedly.....until I could view the scene and do my job without getting sick.

Your response doesn't really explain why many therapists want to attach a pejorative label (BPD) to someone who has experienced a great deal of interpersonal trauma and is only doing what it takes to survive, while "trained" people are not labeled pejoratively.

By no means do I suggest that "trained" personnel be considered anything but a hero, but even trained heroes go home and drink too much, lash out at their loved ones in anger, and engage in all sorts of destructive avoidance behavior. Gambling, cheating, becoming addicted to substances and sex. These "trained" people receive compassion and understanding, and appropriate treatment because "oh my, look at what they are faced with every day, it's no wonder". Not so for the battered wife, the sex worker, the destructive teenager acting out neglect and abuse. These SURVIVORS of horrific conditions get labeled as personality disordered. They fall through the cracks because mainstream therapists consider them difficult to treat, and not worth the time and effort it takes to help them overcome the delusional beliefs they hold about themselves and the world around them.

Believe me when I say I respect everything you are saying, but please understand that there are huge discrepancies in the way the current system views HEROES repeatedly traumatized by their own good intentions, as opposed to SURVIVORS repeatedly traumatized by situations beyond their control.

I guess I feel this way because I see a lot of people on here who feel that the unofficial Dx of C-PTSD is appropriate given their history of multiple traumatic interpersonal relationships. It seems many of these people are women who got labeled with BPD when they are in fact compassionate, honest, hardworking, articulate, funny, loving human beings....myself included. My last therapist labeled me BPD, and I never went back. He didn't get the first clue about who I was. That even though I had been through a lot interpersonal violence, as a grown woman, I still manage to be respectful of others. I am generous, loyal, insightful, compassionate, and always try to see things from the other person's point of view. I have all of the qualities that I expect in a good spouse, friend and parent. I sort of get the feeling that my being outspoken and passionate about boundary violations is what make people see me as hard to get along with. I know the adults in my family sure do. Go figure......

 

[circe47]

Loveneverfails-

Sorry if this thread got sidetracked into a debate about BPD v. C-PTSD labeling. I got that Dx from my last therapist, and it sticks in my craw. This is mainly because it is a pejorative label, befitting women like Glen Close in Fatal Attraction, Jennifer Jason Leigh in Single White Female, or Joan Crawford in Mommie Dearest. While these are Hollywood films embellishing a personality disorder, I personally don't feel that the Dx is appropriate, at least in my case. I am nothing like any of those women, and I suspect that others on the forum that received this diagnosis aren't either.

 

[Girl3]

Thank you for helping, you've just said exactly what I've dealt with so well I feel I could have written the above myself. And thanks again for seeing what I was trying to do, even when I didn't articulate it particularly well. I will try very hard to put what you've stated into practice when I'm feeling stronger, because I do want her in my life so much.

As someone with PTSD, raised by someone with BPD/Narcissism, I feel your pain - so to speak. I haven't talked with my mother in almost a year, because of the inevitable pain it causes me when she begins to condemn, criticize, and otherwise tell me I'm not good enough. I tried ignoring things for the last three decades - because no matter what I achieved, it was never quite enough. My mother thinks I'm a terrible housekeeper, a rotten mother, a poor chooser of husbands, a bad wife....the list goes on, of my poor qualities. Now mind you - I graduated from an Ivy-league school on scholarship, went to med school on scholarship, graduated number 3 in my class, and have a wonderful, brilliant, athletic daughter who adores me - but NONE of that is good enough for my mother. Tomorrow is my birthday. Her card said "I hope You're Happy with Your Life" mom.

So while you needn't cut your mother out of your life entirely unless you want to - I suggest an approach of an old aquaintance: you know her, you acknowledge her, and you don't have to talk to her everyday unless you seriously want to do so.

You can never love someone who loves themself better than you do - so don't try. Make it all happen on your time, your terms. I wish you strength and self-love and much happiness. And if you are without electricity because of Sandy, I hope you get power soon.

 

[Abstract]

I am nothing like any of those women, and I suspect that others on the forum that received this diagnosis aren't either.

From what I know many with BPD would appear very different and I have heard that the Glen Close character would not be a straight BPD issue.

I have read that there is a common impression that those presenting with antisocial personality disorder behaviour are BPD. That there is wide spread confusion about these things. Also many people have more than one personality disorder. It does not mean that some with BPD cant be very destructive and also display abusive behaviour. But there are multiple criteria and BPD does not describe everything about a person.

And no I have not been diagnosed BPD. ;)

 

[Girl3]

When I was in medical school and had to do psychiatry, we had to take care of/interact with all sorts of psychiatric patients. The psych-residents who would do the day-to-day care with us medical students were always disparaging of the BPD patients. Every diagnosis, it would seem, was better than BPD. BPD patients were the most manipulative - they would present you with their tear-jerker story, tell you how wonderful you were as a 'doctor' and then the minute you didn't give them what they wanted - they turned 180 degrees and you might as well be the devil.

And I didn't believe it. Until I had a patient that I worked up - who came from a terrible home-atmosphere, had many problems in her life, and she clung to me, telling me I was such a warm and caring person...until she wanted my home phone number and my house address (which I had been warned in advance, never to give a psyche patient that info) and when I didn't, she threatened me with physical harm.

(Of course, what she didn't know at the time was MY particular psychiatric history.) So I explained that I would no longer be part of her care team and that if she ever showed up in my house it would be as a civilian, not a patient and I would treat it as an attack. She then cried real tears and pleaded with me to stay on her team. But I didn't and another medical student and I traded patients.

BPD is a complex disorder with many manifestations - but ultimately, they and Narcissists have difficulties in treatment because of how they have been raised and how they react to situations. BPD patients usually have other diagnoses and often become the victims of trauma because they place themselves in danger looking for the parent they never had.

It was my most desparate fear, to be diagnosed with BPD because of what I - in the medical profession - had come to expect of the diagnosis. Even my psychiatrist thought perhaps I might be BPD - but after a full year of interacting with me, he decided no. But it takes a while to sort things out.

If I did have BPD though, I would deal with the diagnosis just as I have dealt with being DID. I mean - really - who wants to be DID?

 

[circe47]

Abstract-

I agree that BPD and ASD have a lot of similarity. As do the similarity between ASP and Narcissistic PD, and so on. There are many similarities amongst all PD's, however, I think that a patient must be their own advocate rather than accept being labeled with a personality disorder.

The core features of BPD are 1) a pattern of unstable relationships, 2) affect dysregulation, 3) distorted self image and 3) impulsivity. There are other criteria, but these are the core symptoms that define this particular PD.

I can't speak for others, but I don't feel that the BPD label truly fits in my case. I have to say that while I have exhibited the three core features to some degree, I believe these symptoms are a normal reaction to the abnormal environment at the time.

1) I think we can all agree on the major elements of a healthy relationship: Mutual respect, complete honesty, trust, affection, loyalty, common interests and the ability to see things from the other person's point of view. As a mature adults, these should always be critical elements to any close interpersonal relationship we engage in. Of a mate we most likely require a somewhat higher degree of all of these elements, and a loyalty that precludes ALL others. Sexual chemistry goes without saying, obviously. Some of us are unfortunate that many people we come into contact with have never gotten this particular memo, and reciprocate our sentiments. Why is it that we are the ones with the problem?

2) Is being depressed, anxious, angry, sad in light of abuse somehow inappropriate? I don't think so. I think these are emotionally honest reactions that others are simply not comfortable with, and the victim blaming continues. Certain people need to pretend that everything is rosy, peachy keen, even when everything is horribly wrong. In other words, if the victim doesn't smile, be gracious, hospitable and ultimately pretend that everything is wonderful while carrying the burden of abuse, the victim gets labeled as being the one emotionally dysregulated.

3) Having identity problems is a natural reaction in trying to tailor one's personality to suit the needs of abusive others in positions of power. Society has a funny way of pecking away at others who don't conform to abusive indoctrination; especially so in families. The artistic, creative boy gets bullied by his father for being soft or sissy-like. The shy, academic daughter gets invalidated by her mother for not being the outgoing, popular cheerleader type. These are just two examples of why people suffer identity crises in order to try to "fit in" with the normal standards set by abusive others. With luck, as people mature, the spell gets broken after they realize what is really going on. They will then gravitate to others who respect their individuality and special gifts.

4) Impulsiveness is really an avoidance symptom of extreme pain. People spend recklessly, cheat, steal, drive too fast, use drugs to medicate the dysfunction in their lives. This means they need to be able to vent, find healthier ways of relating, and develop better coping skills.

 

[circe47]

Girl 3-

I really like what you said about this disorder because I completely agree, and feel validated in my judgement that my last therapist was wrong. I don't have time for someone who makes a snap decision about my personality, after only two sessions.

As for myself, I have NEVER told a therapist anything but the truth about my experiences. They are either attuned enough to ask the right questions so that I can gain insight, or they aren't and I find one who is.

I have never had the audacity to expect/ask a therapist for private number or other contact information. I have also never threatened a therapist, or anyone else, with harm to myself or others in order to gain a benefit. I have never gone to extreme lengths to avoid abandonment. On the contrary. I can honestly say that even with regards to my abusive relationships, I'm the one to move on, sooner or later. I have most certainly never stalked anyone.

I don't manipulate. It doesn't congrue with having been manipulated, and hating the feeling of having been manipulated. I have never told my story to illicit sympathy, or for any other benefit. I tell my story so that my therapist and others will understand my depression, anxiety, anger, grief and hopefully provide me with a safe outlet for unloading what I don't want to unload onto the people I care about. They are therapists...unloading is what they are there for, and to help us learn healthier ways of coping and relating to others. I tell my story here because I am hoping that others can relate. I hope that others can make sense from something I've shared, and apply it to their daily lives.

 

[Girl3]

I have often thought that the superficial features of BPD could easily be cast upon many people. And because many BPD patients wind up in dangerous situations, they often do sustain traumas - and can get PTSD.

But most PTSD patients do not have BPD. They might have been raised by someone with BPD. They might have DID (and talk about affect dysregulation - Girl2 reacts totally different to things than Girl3 and so someone seeing G2 or G3 under similar conditions with totally different outcomes might think - yikes.)

But the diagnosis cannot be made in a single sitting -especially with BPD. It is a pattern of interaction and behavior that you observe over time to make the diagnosis.