News Priest sex abuse scandal.

[Tinyflame]

Maybe I am wrong but what I see in your posting is your justifying the actions of the church. And it wasn't just the church. Law enforcement turned a blind eye as well.

No @shimmerz , quiote the opposite. I believe when and what atrocities they are accountable for t, and are committing they need to be held to the highest punitive level for. Especially those who have and are covering it up.

There really isn’t any level of workplace stress that makes it ok for a priest to get away with sexually abusing one single child. Let alone dozens, spanning decades.

No this is misunderstood, I do not mean anyone, pries or otherwise, is ever justified in abuse.

At least on paper, the school has an obligation to act if they become aware of the issue. One child victim doesn’t turn into 20 child victims. At least on paper, the school is obligated to put child safety first.

On paper is as good as nothing. My sister got it right, she came home at 5 years old and said in response to my mom, "it's all good, I'm never going back again". Especially if one had no father or father present, they covered it up and covered up who they knew were doing it.

Compare that to the Church, which has decided, “Meh, child safety? We’ve got traditions to stick to...”.

I hope that this is 'no longer' the case, for many I'm sure it is however, in the church or out.

To me it's 101% undeniably horrid. It remains to be seen if enough good, and above-board people in and out of the Church can restore it, for all right about it.

@shimmerz I think things changed, but in my family we had no outlandish doctrine or even friends in church in the regard of that being the similarities that bound. I don't even know what my parents friends believed, but many were atheists. I didn't even have to go to Sunday School.

Yep, it's horrid.

 

[shimmerz]

I believe when and what atrocities they are accountable for t, and are committing they need to be held to the highest punitive level for. Especially those who have and are covering it up.

Good to know. My apologies if I hit any buttons at all. That was absolutely not my intention.

I feel like at the end of the day, all of us working through this PTSD stuff have really bitten off the very painful task. We have all needed to literally rearrange our thoughts about what is happening out in that world/society/religious places/family. And I think many of us had to make up lies because the truth was so damned painful. And here we all are, backpaddling and learning new and more appropriate words for what happened to us so we can come to some sort of resolution and come to some painful truths. We can't see that though, unless we choose to see what is actually happening, rather than what we have been told has(is) happened(ing).

I still do wish I knew what would have happened if my parents had seen the church fall the way it did. I think it would have destroyed them. But then again, my surviving siblings of my parents still seemed enamoured with the church even after all of this came to light.

 

[Tinyflame]

Good to know. My apologies if I hit any buttons at all. That was absolutely not my intention.

Thank you. I thought I had been quite clear. And yes, it is very painful to be accused of supporting CSA after having survived it. And knowing exactly what is was and where it came from. Was a very painful day.

Anyway, carry on, not what the thread's about, sorry Mach.

 

[Sideways]

And yes, it is very painful to be accused of supporting CSA after having survived it.

I hope my posts haven’t been distressing for you, and I’m very sorry if they have been. I can completely understand they could easily be interpreted as basically saying “Catholics support csa”.

In fact, in my mind, that’s what makes it so confusing for me. If I believed that the parishioners were truly a bunch of csa supporters, the whole thing would be easy for me to understand. But I know that the overwhelming majority of Catholics, like other church-goers, are just regular good people. People who find csa as abhorrent as anyone else. I don’t think it’s something I’ll ever understand. At least, not until I’ve been able to work through a bit more pf my stuff.

Thanks for hanging in there with the discussion - it’s been confronting, but incredibly helpful for me and my own trauma junk that I’m processing.

 

[scout86]

I've been thinking about a different angle. Who ARE these people? Seems like there's a chance to do some research here that might be useful.

For a start, how many of these pedophiles chose the priesthood because they wanted to be pedophiles? Think about it. A vote of celibacy is a big deal, if your sexual inclinations are towards adult women. If you're attracted to children and never really want a conventional marriage anyway, it's a win/win. You're also going to be untroubled by breaking any vows (or lying) because all about what YOU want anyway. I have a suspicion the priesthood is a profession that's more than average attractive to a pedophile. Not saying there aren't plenty of people who are priests for all the right reasons. I just think this is a basic problem with the whole idea.

 

[Abstract]

Oh I agree. I suspect there are multiple factors that would draw someone like this in. I also imagine you would get a range of different mindsets for the perpetrators. Some trying to be who they would like to be (trying to do the right thing and separating themselves from the world in a sense) and finding themselves in a protected environment with too much power and influence, not enough consequences and temptation on hand. Others who consciously know that they would have these, as well as ego feeding/power in general and seek it out as a good hunting ground. Some deluded and just off the planet of logical behaviour or thought processes.
There is likely to be a few more people attracted to the role who have relationship/interpersonal difficulties and then also don't have any healthy sexual outlet.

Absolutely not saying all priests have issues. Most priests are going into this for the right reasons and do good.

Pedophiles are always going to be drawn to situations where they have power, access to children and are protected in some way. And many of them prestige of some form. Teachers of all types, politicians etc.

To me its not so much that there are abusers within. I can see why it happens. Its that the church didn't adjust its policies to this day and age and protect its congregation. I hate hypocrisy and church supposedly standing for good and then protecting its reputation and pedophiles rather than the children that are in its trust is abhorrent to me. Hypocritical. Upper management of religious organisations are essentially political for want of a better word. There are people scrambling for power. There are egos doing war against each other. There are agendas. I've seen it first and second hand. The people in the congregation are usually there just wanting to express their beliefs and spirituality but there is a whole lot else going on.

I also have some baggage of my own in this department even though not directly ( was never brought up Catholic) so that adds a little intensity to my feelings. But hate hypocrisy in any form.

 

[Neverthesame]

Its that the church didn't adjust its policies to this day and age and protect its congregation.

I don't know if this is true our not, but I don't know if allowing a priest to marry would really help.
I think it would only make it like other denominations of Christianity where they just molest their own kids, instead of other people's.

 

[Abstract]

Neverthesame, I certainly don't believe lack of marriage or relationships would make someone into a pedophile. or an abuser. Absolutely not. Apologies if I seemed to be saying that.

When I said to not adjust its policy to this day and age I mean protecting itself and keeping the dealing of abuse within its walls, relocating priests to new hunting grounds, rather than reporting them to authorities and having law and order deal with them.

 

[Friday]

I've been thinking about a different angle. Who ARE these people? Seems like there's a chance to do some research here that might be useful.

It’s been awhile since I read the research, but my recollections of it are that you find a disproportionately high number of pedophiles in all child-centric jobs. Teachers, coaches, childcare providers, priesthoods, youth ministries, pediatric doctors/nurses, children’s aid workers, etc... but that no single profession did the reverse prove out. Meaning that most pedophiles chose child-centric professions, but that no (legal) child centric profession was made up disproportionately of pedophiles. So the vast majority of pedophiles may be teachers, pediatricians, coaches, priests, etc... but the vast majority of priests, teachers, etc. aren’t peodphiles.

The caveat (legal) being that child porn & child sex traffickers were almost exclusively made up of pedophiles (is it odd that the fact that there are any who aren’t, seems somehow more disgusting?).

I think it would only make it like other denominations of Christianity where they just molest their own kids, instead of other people's.

I remember reading at one point that the average pedophile has something approximating 200 victims during the course of their life?

Okay... just went and looked up those stats, a quick perusal says the average is somewhere between 100 & 250 is average, with very few in the 10 or less range or in the upwards of 400 range.

Those would be some big families.

Sounds more like marriage just increases their victim pool by 2 or 3. :sick:

Pedophiles have a strong, almost irresistible, desire to have sex with children. The average pedophile molests 260 victims during their lifetime. Over 90% of convicted pedophiles are arrested again for the same offense after their release from prison.

- Link Removed

The typical offender is male, begins molesting by age 15, engages in a variety of deviant behavior, and molests an average of 117 youngsters, most of whom do not report the offense.

- Dr. Gene Abel, 1985. The Evaluation of Child Molesters: Final Report to the Center on Antisocial and Violent Behavior. Rockville, MD: National Institute of Mental Health

 

[Abstract]

I think its also a big misconception that everyone who assaults or molests children is a pedophile. There are opportunistic predators who are not too particular for want of a better word. Sorry. Anyone they can get access to. Children come with certain advantages from a power perspective.

 

[Abstract]

I also know an adult woman who was sexually abused by her priest and who took it to trial as they relocated him and he proceeded to do the same thing again and again was moved. Rinse repeat. The church hired a top lawyer and the defence team used every dirty trick they could think of in the case. Including trying to use her therapy records against her.

 

[Tinyflame]

I hesitated to come back to this as I find it both triggering and horrifying, but I agree with @scout , @Friday , and @Abstract.

It’s been awhile since I read the research, but my recollections of it are that you find a disproportionately high number of pedophiles in all child-centric jobs. Teachers, coaches, childcare providers, priesthoods, youth ministries, pedia

I came across this the other day, when triggered ^^ ; that according to Psychology Today it was estimated the average prevalence with teachers, coaches, etc, was 15-22% . But the priesthood 4%. To me, that's the first mistake, it's deviant behaviour, not somehow protected or altered by professing (or actually believing, or hiding under) what is considered a rigorous moral code. If it's basically that rate across the board- it will be at that rate there, as well (or higher, as 80% of victims are teenaged boys).

I don't think an average Jane or Joe who was single, celibate, or lonely, would turn to a child in response. I personally also don't believe anyone who is molesting children will be necessarily confessing it. Or even thinking anything is wrong. Or not be well loved publically, or do other, unrelated good things.

I also don't understand though, again where they've estimated 1/4 to 1/2 are of homosexual orientation (self-reported), how a person would feel comfortable in that role when at this time (or even much more so- times past), been a very unwelcoming environment in terms of doctrine (if that's the word?) for people who are gay, by virtue of not viewing it as perhaps who the person was precisely created to be, vs a lifestyle choice. That has changed a lot- but still.

So the vast majority of pedophiles may be teachers, pediatricians, coaches, priests, etc... but the vast majority of priests, teachers, etc. aren’t peodphiles.

^^ Agree. Supposedly since 2002 or 2004 there has been absolute mandatory required reporting, Idk. Never helped at Schools, or such. Those with the authority to do something burying it.

On the other hand, they've done (or individuals have) much to fight human trafficking. And lots genuinely work their rear off, amidst the allegations globally. What a downer for morale, for those who are genuine/ are themselves horrified.

Idk, in my heart I know who I trust, but in another way I'm left in my life trusting no one. Because ultimately, no one really cares, 'stuff' is one's own battle to fight alone. I think when you experience what you never thought was possible, never occurred it would be you- never seemed possible, or likely others would think or do what they did, but they did- nothing and no one seems guaranteed or trustworthy.