Yes
@scout86 , totally agree. I should have clarified, and I am no theologian, either, many years ago when I was a little kid, they would say 'aberration' (or 'abomination'- I can't recall which?, because to me as a child as I grew older that seemed equally unloving :( ), as regards homosexuality. But, you see I was raised feeling and taught/ modeled that everyone was equal and of the same value. Didn't matter age, nationality, sexual orientation, imprisonment, past, gender,or anything else, incapacitations, disabilities or differences of any sort- or 'behaviours'- eg, the behaviour was bad (or sinful, in the case of inflicting any form of harm), the person however was not created for that and they were either ill or choosing it. But that evil, as it were, actions were just that- evil actions, but the person was not horrid, rather ill or otherwise gone off the rails (perhaps in a manner no one could understand- like horrifically abused children sometimes becoming serial killers themself). And were (I) in that person's environment, situation, what-have-you, I might too, who knows?
Mind you, I remember my mom saying one thing only, as regards church teachings, that in her day as a child it was 'too much fire and brimstone and not enough love'. So I suspect she modeled otherwise before I was even old enough to remember, just as I remember when I was old enough. But none said lightly, more like hate the sin, forgive the person (and obviously, the justice dep't handles the rest). Not overlooking (such as harm done to you), condemning the action, but not the person. But in the times past, they wielded great authority and/ or more fear.
However, what I meant in context was, I know for myself as a single person, no family, no kids, I already often frequently feel like I have 3 heads in church, that I do not belong there. With rare exception the people are nice, it's just that much stuff is organized around that as a focus. So (and unfortunately I'm projecting, but also wondering with common sense, but I do not know as I am straight), how someone would gravitate or even accept a religion that (
had) viewed homosexuality that way (in the past.)
The main difference to me in how the church has responded and how schools, politicians, orphanages etc have responded (in modern times). There is something particularly abhorrent to me when an institution that stands for religion and supposedly all that is good officially and constructively hides these things at the expense of its congregation and their safety. The congregation they are in charge of protecting. Its horribly hypocritical. 2. That it was official church policy. Its not as if person a and b conspir
^^ Yes
@Abstract I think everyone does. But, at least only speaking for 'now', no where is that reconcilable as an acceptable policy for anyone who is practising Catholicism. And if anyone said there is anything in Church teaching that infers abuse is acceptable, I highly beg to differ. (Including enabling it). But you are right, it is grotesque. I think this Pope said it's a sacrilege, really; but I would say 'totally'. Because (mentally ill or disordered or not), anyone using God or manipulating people through the use of their love of God/ respect for God or a church, is anti-God. If you ask me, if there is good and evil, it's the most effective way to destroy churches proper, because by association it is tied to 'belief'. But even if one doesn't believe in good or evil, they certainly as a human being should believe in ending abuse of all kinds and in all it's forms and anyone covering it up stopped and held to account.
Also, it is not just a question of hypocrisy, I think, it's a crime. And I'm glad to see the church using the term. Because in a school (and mine were all public), it's still a crime. And when kids start getting older and their grades are of greater importance, there's a lot of power to yield there. Or as with athletes, etc. There's more pressure of what's on the line. So it may not be moral juxtaposition, but I think everyone would agree they expect schools or organized sports to be safe spaces.
No respect for the church.
I don't blame you one bit
@Abstract . ^^^ I have a few Indigenous friends who are very devout- I often think, 'Kudos to you, because after the Residential School horrors not sure if I'd be'. They're certainly a living, breathing example of forgiveness that transcends it though. (And very sweet people, too, Tough but sweet).
I think, and as I said I know very little about theology, but I do know some of the main beliefs are (supposed to be); equality and worth for every person across the word; belief (faith), hope, love for all and that exists (nature and the earth) and the protection and care that accompanies it, service and care for others- body, mind, heart and soul, forgiveness (and I'm sure there's more).
Which is what makes this both so sad and difficult- on it's terms it's a very peaceable set of beliefs- love and not judging, and seeking the well being of all (not through retaliatory means, but ethical ones), encompassing virtually everything. :(
I don't even think people or clergy (speaking of the sincere and legitimate ones) are all drawn towards it to hide out, or avoid such things as marriage, but rather because they love God (and people by extension) so much, and feel that it is their calling, despite the sacrifices. That has been my personal experience. In the same manner a person chooses to marry one person, but has to give up the single life and also commit to that one person if they are going to be faithful.
I'm with you with the trusting no one @Junebug ?❤ Which is sad as some people are without a strange persdoubt trustworthy. Its sad isn't it?
Yes,
@Abstract , it is. I am sorry you are trapped as I am. :( ?
The strange thing is- of only 2 people that showed me compassion after a critical event- one was a priest. And in the process of trying to learn how to trust and also to forgive myself (forgiving others I can mostly manage), a friend who is a priest.
