Psychosis, C-PTSD, and Dissociation

[grit]

Hi all,

I am just trying to learn and trying to understand PTSD, CPTSD, Psychosis, Dissociation and a lot of other mental health conditions. Please share personal or story you know not too much research stuff or scientific theories. I am interested in personal touch and feelings and any positive things people learn or find during their journey.

A little bio:
I experienced in psychosis during therapy. I found it positive experience because I was and felt safe. So I slowly got myself out of it. I also found it that psychosis worked for me that it felt as if I could go inside my head and re-arrange my thoughts and feelings even though I lost language. This is my story. I thought one time maybe a safe psychosis sort of resets the brain to more workable. It removed some stains. Which I could elaborate a bit. It removed all personal and emotional pain sort of like watching body parts moving without my permission. The experience was positive. it also sort of removed maybe all fear I have had about going mad! or annihilation so early in my therapy that I felt a bit more free to experiment with therapy.

Dissociation: I did not know I had it until therapy as well. Now that I know I cognitively understood its disadvantage but not emotionally. So I sleep or spaced out. As long as I can do my job and school why does it matter? Well not until I experienced moments of not dissociating and realizing wow! I use a lot more psychic energy to do what I can do split second. Now though, I have depression what I was dissociating from and I am not sure which one I prefer. I know dissociation all my life (it comes and goes) and I find depression is more lingering thing and I do not know what triggers.

Now I do not know if I am going nuts or not but sometimes I see no depression or dissociating and I think I am going mad – it feels too good to be true so I do not trust myself!

For example, I am filled with love and caring lately and I can accept depression and sadness because I feel I thwarted them all my life taking the life of my abuser. I am OK feeling like I should when I ws being abused and I am OK. It is light. Alignment. But I do not trust myself with so much peace. What is this?

Is it possible that dissociation splits emotions and logic/cognition but not personality? I feel these are my disconnection and when I find alignment with an issue, I am so surprised how I did not see it before. I feel my emotions/feelings are well developed. My cognition is also well developed. Hence why I felt functional but there is a huge gap between them and very rarely they connect.

Anyone had similar stories or experiences? I can provide clarification, just ask.

I am really curious. And I hope my writings make sense.

Thank you for contributing.

 

[Sweetleaf]

For me, psychosis was an absolutely horrifying experience, but my psychosis was caused by torture, including sleep deprivation torture. Then it was worsened by a manic episode likely triggered by the sleep deprivation torture - I was unable to get help. I realized I was psychotic during the torture, the person doing it to me thought it was cool... it wasnt until like 4 or 5 days after the torture ended and I had freed myself from the situation, that I went to the hospital - because it had become extreme. I was totally disconnected from reality and there was no rational thought in my head. Just delusions and frighteningly real hallucination.

Also it took 4 or 5 days to get help, because I escaped to my mother, who is very abusive and abused and neglected me as a child. She didnt give a shit, she just yelled at me for acting weird and crazy... even when I was begging her to take me to the hospital. That was too inconvenient for her. It was my therapist that called the hospital, when I went to see her and was completely gone from reality.

It was probably the most terrifying experience in my life and that's saying something considering what has happened to me.

 

[EveHarrington]

I don’t believe there is such a thing as “safe” psychosis given that the very definition of psychosis is a break with reality, in other words, not safe.

I don’t think that what you describe is psychosis.

 

[ILoveLife]

I definitely don't have similar experiences with psychosis and dissociation.

My psychosis was also terrifying.

The way my pdoc explained psychosis to me was that we are "taken away" by hallucinations (sensing things - with the 5 senses - that are not there) and/or irrealistic thoughts that can't be confirmed by reality - such as, "I'm am God/Jesus/Isis", "The CIA is following me and parked by my front door", "Nobody exists, everyone is a figment of my imagination", as some examples... - which means that are particular sets of delusions that are universal to psychosis, they're all documented if you want to search for it. My particular brand of crazy was the "I'm god" delusion, not really proud of it, but not really sad about it anymore either. It was really terrifying because I couldn't control anything about it, and that's the hallmark of psychosis really. It's not like, ok now I'm getting out of it and we slowly back away, it's much more serious than that. That's why schizophrenia is considered one of the worse mental illnesses to have, because it's constant lingering psychosis with cyclical big episodes.
Seems like what you experienced wasn't any of this, correct me if I'm wrong.

Dissociation, I also don't experience it like you do..
When I dissociate I have a hard time being grounded in my reality - everything feels unreal, or I feel unreal, or one of my parts is more present than the others. I don't really "space out", I get really numb.

Hope this helps.

 

[grit]

I don’t believe there is such a thing as “safe” psychosis given that the very definition of psychosis is a break with reality, in other words, not safe.

I don’t think that what you describe is psychosis.

Hi EveHarrington,

It was unsafe! I experienced it three times all of them in therapy rooms. I think it depends what is it for each person. I felt if I was touched, I would have exploded. I think (think) that psychosis is unsafe if the people around you do not know what and go out of their way to interfere...this is my opinion. It is terrifying. It is like my body, mind, spirit separated at seams and I was falling apart.

What I remember the most was my language was gibberish. It did not make sense. I had no grandiose or anything. It was like I was begging to be believed not to be hurt which in my case makes sense but in the words I was using like I am good. I am reasonable. I am not crazy but not in sentences...just words and I do not remember all of them. I remember some of them.

I felt alone, in the dark, all my senses were taken away. I could not feel hot or cold or dark or light even though I was told my eyes were open. My hands were moving in a weird and strange ways. It did not last long. When I came out, the last muscles to come back were my leg which I could not move.

I am trying to understand. I do not think any two people have exact same psychosis. When I see psychosis in the movies, it is like they are always being intruded upon by family or doctors or WORSE they are put in a dark room. I think what made mine positive experience was I got back and everything was still. No crazy moves or sound or faces just concerns from my therapist and soothing tone so I even though the first thing I wanted to do was get the hell out of there!. I felt like Omg. what happened to me? did I die and come back?

I am trying to describe an experience that is very fragmented in a language that does not convey.
I feel language cannot explain psychosis fairly. If language (end of spectrum) is creativity, I think language (beginning of its use in humans) is survival and just words and gibberish and I felt during my psychosis, language was least of my allies. I was like some of sort of animal trying to sound like human.

This is why I started this thread to make sense of stories of psychosis because I feel I am not alone.

However, I do acknowledge your comment that is not safe for most people precisely because of those around them or the person being alone and scared. I think the context matters and the environment is important. I felt safe with my therapist. I also shared this with my husband and instructed the therapist if I go mad or out of the reality, he was to call my husband not 911.

not sure if this makes sense. but I thought I would add some context.

I definitely don't have similar experiences with psychosis and dissociation.

My psychosis was also terrifying.

The way my pdoc explained psychosis to me was that we are "taken away" by hallucinations (sensing things - with the 5 senses - that are not there) and/or irrealistic thoughts that can't be confirmed by reality - such as, "I'm am God/Jesus/Isis", "The CIA is following me and parked by my front door", "Nobody exists, everyone is a figment of my imagination", as some examples... - which means that are particular sets of delusions that are universal to psychosis, they're all documented if you want to search for it. My particular brand of crazy was the "I'm god" delusion, not really proud of it, but not really sad about it anymore either. It was really terrifying because I couldn't control anything about it, and that's the hallmark of psychosis really. It's not like, ok now I'm getting out of it and we slowly back away, it's much more serious than that. That's why schizophrenia is considered one of the worse mental illnesses to have, because it's constant lingering psychosis with cyclical big episodes.
Seems like what you experienced wasn't any of this, correct me if I'm wrong.

Dissociation, I also don't experience it like you do..
When I dissociate I have a hard time being grounded in my reality - everything feels unreal, or I feel unreal, or one of my parts is more present than the others. I don't really "space out", I get really numb.

Hope this helps.

Thank you so much Sietz.

I particularly love you for saying "my particular brand of crazy".

As I detailed above, my psychosis was losing in touch with my body and mind and senses. My senses were not heightented. They were frozen. I have become more catatonic than delusional. From what was described to me after ...I was fighting and begging or trying to get out of something...than having beliefs. I wonder and I only wonder if being receptive to losing the mind softens the impact. I wonder if being in therapy and trying to let go, made my losing my mind softer than otherwise. let us say, if I was not feeling safe already, maybe I would have scary psychosis. but because I was feeling safe prior to the point, it made difference. I wonder if the feeling before psychosis (or experiences) precipitates the depth of psychosis.

Can psychosis be induced by a doctor in a safe environment? did anyone have that experience?


I did suspect maybe I had schizophrenia but my psychiatrist ruled out. She diagnosed me with severe CPTSD. everything severe and complex is blahahahaha to me cause..well does it end? Losing the reality may have spectrum and maybe I did not go far enough or long enough and was supported so I wonder if that made sense.

I am just exploring. I read a lot of psychosis and I can relate. I see people in the street talking to themselves and I listen and I can relate. I am keeping an open mind.

About dissociation, this is a pickle. Could it be possible, again keeping spectrum in mind, that one can completely adapt to being dissociated that it is not even a problem until the "spell" sort of broken.

When my doc told me I am severely dissociated but not split in personality, I was whatever that means. The words did not make sense to me then. But when I experience psychosis I felt the cracks and I have not been the same.

I was dissociated like you could say who and who is generous person. You can say that person is great with people, nice to talk to or will give the jacket on his back to his friend in need. I was like that in dissociation. I never had depression or anxiety or deep sadness. How can that be possible with my trauma?

After my first psychosis, I started to experience severe anxieties and depression and many other pains I never had before.

It is like at very young age, I just crawl into dissociation and grew and adapt there and lived there for so long and until I broke down in therapy, I did not even know I had so many problems. I completely dissociated from any memory of my childhood. I do not have more than a handful of stories from my childhood. I have to constantly ask my siblings what happened what do they remember. We all have variations, gaps, and long empty years among us.

In my culture mental health is very limited. Very few things will qualify you crazy. Everything else is considered you are just different and you may gain a very apt nickname for it but that is it. You would have to be very violent or very dead to be considered mentally ill.

So I also wonder if that impacted me how I see mental illness or crazy.
I am sorry if this makes no sense. I am trying to explain something that is hard to put into words.
I felt since then, language is very limited for explaining psychosis.
I even watched a TED talk of a doctor who had a stroke and her experience was absolutely breath taking. Nothing like mine at all but I was wondering if a lot of people experience psychosis differently depending on the situation or their personality but we only hear when it is negative.

Thank you so much.

PS. Now that I am truly experiencing depression (not so much anxiety), I can see how my dissociation tries to come and shut me off from feeling this foreboding feelings and deep despair. But I can see it now, so I gently observe.

I avoided depression and the loss of my childhood so I could survive, I am paying the price now and I am accepting. It is much better than living and adapting to dissociation (which I also feel was a state of adapted psychosis for long term).

Now at least I can get glimpses of life and back to depression. Before I was all the time living same level of no real good or no real bad either. Just like an animal with language.

Thanks again.

 

[grit]

@EveHarrington and @Sietz

I just had a thought about both of your similar psychosis. I wonder and I by no means know anything about your personal lives but what you shared and their similarities, I wonder, if you or anyone who had a horrible experience as a child around certain age when imagination is developed would experience similar psychosis.

Where the person would need a power (jesus or god etc) to fight back whatever that hurt them or made them feel so unsafe THEN. of course again putting this in words makes it sound normal but the emotions and state of mind to go along a child to face his tormentor is unimaginable, hence leaving this reality to create a new reality where the child is powerful and can get back to those that hurt.Sounds like science fiction.

This just general thought nothing based on your particular life since I do not know that.

I am only thinking this way because my psychosis was paralysing and dark. I completely lost sight and forget about reality. I could hear voices in the background of the therapist but could not understand but yet I was scared and terrifying because the sound was in my head. I am thinking maybe my first mark of psychosis happened when I was a baby, powerless, and no imagination and that is why I am freezing to the point of a baby like state not to more plausible and highly imaginative state of mind.

I read a lot about this but unfortunately, to me research combines all psychosis into one over-aching theme and I wonder how it actually experienced in individual level. I got losing the reality is common. I got delusion and hallucinations can be common for some but not for all and not both at the same time but the personal experience is not something one can put into a research. Maybe I am venturing off to spiritual level of psychosis. Maybe. Not sure exactly. Just trying to see if anyone experience psychosis as sort of the gateway to healing or at least making sense of what happened.

BTW, I have a huge family and no one developed schizophrenia weirdly but there are a lot of other issues.

 

[Friday]

It sounds like you’re describing disassociation (you are unreal / depersonalization; the world is unreal/ derealization; divorcing your emotions from rational thought/ emotional distanceing-numbing) and grounding yourself back out again, rather than psychosis.

If you asked if people have experienced that? Disassociating in therapy, grounding yourself out, and feeling an increased sense of well being & control over your situation because of that process? I think you’d find the shared experience & common ground you’re looking for.

 

[grit]

@Friday

Thank you for this comment. I am truly exploring all options at this time and even decided to see another therapist that is more verse in dissociation. My therapist never talks about dissociation and one time when I mentioned the book haunted house, he laughed at me (or with me) well...it hurt my feelings and I never brought it up.

From what I read of de-realization or depersonalization, I am not sure it was what I experienced in therapy. I only think because I was in my body the whole time but lost control or power of function and language (just word salad)...I feel it was psychosis but at this point not sure what is what really.

I am meeting new therapist on Monday and she seems very experienced so we shall see. I want a therapist who is either experienced or flexible to explore it not one inexperienced and not willing to explore.

It is painful that so many therapists are not well versed in dissociation and how common it is.

Thanks again. I will update as I learn more.

 

[Sweetleaf]

I only think because I was in my body the whole time but lost control or power of function and language

That is how derealization/depersonalization feels for me.

Trust me, psychosis is a far cry from that - having experienced both. That said, it is very freaky to experience, it can be very scary, it can feel like you're crazy or going crazy or something.

I have to take naltrexone to not be damn near 24/7 depersonalized/derealized

So I agree with others, reading what you said - I think it's some kind of dissociation you're experiencing. Likely depersonalization - when that happens to me it feels like I lose control of my body, and it does whatever it's doing on its own, and I'm just an observer. It's very hard to put into words. But what you say makes me think of my own dissociative issues.

You can be "in your body" or observing from first person perspective, while depersonalized/derealized. You don't have to have the whole out-of-body-experience thing going on though that can happen. The talking that's done while depersonalized can feel like word salad, its like it's hard to get the words out, or the right words, or anything. Maybe that's what you had going on?

Psychosis would be like, thinking you're god or something, or there'd be some other kinds of wacky delusions, nuttier than squirrel shit - hallucinations - and of course lots of different kinds of dissociation can occur while psychotic - I myself was depersonalized and derealized for a lot of mine. But, dissociation on its own doesn't mean you're psychotic - even if it feels like you're going insane, or have gone insane, etc.

 

[Abstract]

lost control or power of function and language (just word salad).

This is definitely a close description to how dissociation can look for me too, at times. I also have collapse/sleep type episodes at times. Personally I really can't see psychosis in what you mention, Grit. Never have when you discuss this.

I actually have seen unreal things when had psychotic depression and it was absolutely terrifying place to be. Not all experiences are the same of course but that was totally different to what you describe here and anything I know about psychosis.

Remember that dissociation can involve being removed with from almost every aspect of our sensory or motor experiences or self. It doesnt sound like Conversion Disorder but to demonstrate to you how physical dissociation can be you might want to look it up.

Also, the circumstances you describe surrounding these experiences in my own experience have been particularly likely to send me down that road. Interpersonal complex stuff with a therapist in context of dealing with trauma. Dissociation express.

Depersonalisation and derealisation can take many many different forms. Different flavours I call them. And when it comes to self identity I find depersonalisation can be extreme in this department.

I have even felt my molecules of my body all come apart. Depersonalisation. Arms growing huge - derealisation/ depersonalisation.

Good luck. I think its hard to have therapy with someone who isnt up on dissociation if you are someone who dissociates a fair amount or lot. Been there before and it was a bit of a disaster.

 

[grit]

Good morning sunshines!

thank you for the amazing comments.

I am taking them to heart. You are all right. I do not want to wish or have psychosis but I was shocked of losing control and reality and no one actually said I had psychosis this was my own way of explaining.
I do not know anything about depersonalization/derealization but I will explore and learn more. I rather have these than psychosis really. I did experience a sense of safety and deep sense of my psychic afterwards and that is why the experience even though truly scary was also helpful and beneficial for me at the end.

I think the most important thing I am learning on this site is I have a therapist who does not know about dissociation or is too inexperienced or too afraid to learn or be curious about.

I have been struggling with this because I am ending up doing the therapy after therapy because I am dissociated during therapy and have no recollection. This is making me think of another thread.

I am quite flexible with therapists but I do need some guidance, education and even dependency during therapy session so I know I will be grounded if I am gone too deep (I do not have that sense). I do not need much between therapist sessions but if I am sleeping during the sessions and my therapist eyes are closed (often)...I feel like I am wasting my time.

I had a dream (I know not everybody's cup of tea) last night of waking up and the back half of my hair was shaved! and I was married to very young woman in her 20s (LOL this part is interesting) and she shaved my hair without telling me. All I can say is I felt I was not being aware about certain things and need to confront my therapist before I move on. In the dream, when I asked her sternly why she shaved my hair without telling me, she looked perplexed as if I asked to do this but did not remember. She was extremely caring, thoughtful, and very supportive...I had a good feeling about her. The rest of my hair looked extremely healthy and lustrous!

thank you so much. I am touched. You guys are absolutely amazing and wonderful and extremely helpful. I have recovered more since I joined this site. So many interesting, extremely intelligent and knowledgeable.

thank you and love you!

 

[Abstract]

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Dissociation Explained