Ptsd from narcissistic abuse

[MyWillow]

In terms of children suffering any form of abuse remember that they simply don’t have the integrative capacity to fight or flee or make sense of it. Particularly when it’s someone they RELY on for their survival.

Hence why it can be so damaging. Some of the experts talk about child abuse being life threatening to the soul as well as the physical self. Just my two cents.

 

[lostforgottensoul]

Some of the experts talk about child abuse being life threatening to the soul as well as the physical self.

I REALLY wish "life threatening to the soul" would stop being used. It was either life threatening and you actually thought you would die or it wasn't. Sexual abuse is quite different.

Again, I was bullied badly in school and by my parents. My dad was emotional abusive before he left as was my brother. I know what emotional abuse feels like and what it does to you but I still choose to stay at school for as long as I could despite the emotional abuse there to not have to go home to a cult where I thought I would die everyday.

I don't consider the latest DSM manual, or any diagnostic manual, a set-in-stone, cannot-be-evolved-or-further-developed-when-more-knowledge-and-data-comes-in gospel of diagnosis.

No, it's not. And we know it's not because it is always revising. But, it is what we know as of today. I would also keep up on the research but the DSM and ICD is where the doctors go to diagnose. If it is not in there today, reguardless of any new research, then you cannot be diagnosed with whatever today because you do not fit the diagnosic criteria today. If there is new research that would change the diagnosic criteria of said disorder then the doctor/therapist should hold off on diagnosing until the DSM or ICD is revised and changes said diagnosic criteria.

I'm wondering about people who get damaged from cults

Cults are quite unique. The damage there is normally very deep seeded. Possibily changing your entire set of core beliefs. There are other things besides PTSD that you can get from being in a cult. For me it was Stolkholm syndrome. That, by the way, isn't in the DSM so the newest research on it is very important. I was in fear for my life, totured, and brutally sexually abused daily but it wasn't abuse in my own head. It was good and justified and holy and my parents were gods in my head. Actual gods that were to be worshipped and were perfect.

Another one was possible attachment disorder but because that isn't diagnosed and never will be because abuse under 6 is unknown and it is diagnosed by signs and symptoms below the age of 5.

And yet another piece, though not a disgnosis, is simply being "brainwashed".

All that to say that there are many pieces to a cult and PTSD is only one possible consequence to being in a cult. But still, you need to fit the diagnosic criteria. Even with a cult, there is still a diagnosic criteria for PTSD and now in the ICD, CPTSD.

 

[mumstheword]

I REALLY wish "life threatening to the soul" would stop being used. It was either life threa...

It was truly terrible what you went through and, to me, it sounds like almost a miracle that you survived it at all. I'm so sorry to hear what you went through.

I can relate the the Stockholm Syndrome thing somewhat, not diagnosed with it though. I stood by my partner abuser for years, having babies with him and being his right hand woman, despite terrible treatment.
The amount of times I got womb infections after birthing in car parks, bush shacks and having to get up within days to go into a recording studio, go on tour or play a gig in his band. Sometimes I was so infected I was hallucinating, but I did it. If I could stand up at all, I would do whatever he wanted me to do, and I had 7 babies to him. So I do have an inkling into the Stockholm Syndrome thing.

Once I was way too sick, not long after a birth and he wanted to leave me with 5 young children in our bush shack, no phone, no neighbors within walking distance, and I stopped him driving off by resting the baby on the bonnet. I could hardly stand.I had some kind of dysentery plus womb infection delirium scary thing. He went on about that for years, how I sabotaged "his career", "we would have made it, if it wasn't for me, ruining everything, because I stopped him going into the studio". I still had another 2 children to him after that. And stayed 10 years.

I was so lucky, that time, that an actual friend brought me colloidal silver and I drank heaps of it and here I still am, because I could have begged to be taken to the hospital any number of times and there's no way he would ever have taken me. He wouldn't have risked exposure by allowing me to have care.

I don't think anyone is talking about "abuse in my own head". though.

 

[EveHarrington]

How is finding out the person you've given your body to, thinking they cared about you, and then finding out they have zero regard for you, that different to rape?

Sorry, but you don't get the luxury of invalidating almost an ENTIRE community and then telling people to not get reactive.

Yeah, support comes in all forms, but I won't mince words when I say you're being anything BUT supportive.

Seriously, your thinking is anything but rigorously scientific so don't hide behind that.

Having sex with someone voluntarily who later treats you like the flavor of the week is NOTHING like rape.

NOT.

EVEN.

CLOSE.

Radically accept that shit and move on because I don't think I'm alone in saying that your line of thinking is incredibly insensitive at best.

Don't invalidate everyone in the process because you can't wrap your mind around why rape is more harmful than having sex and later regretting it because the guy gave you a few lines in order to get p*ssy.

 

[lostforgottensoul]

I can relate the the Stockholm Syndrome thing somewhat, not diagnosed with it though. I stood by my partner abuser for years, having babies with him and being his right hand woman, despite terrible treatment.

Stockholm happens after the trauma. What you describe sounds like batter woman's syndrome.

How is finding out the person you've given your body to, thinking they cared about you, and then finding out they have zero regard for you, that different to rape?

I skimmed your post and missed this. I agree 100% with @EveHarrington! Being regretful of whom you WILLINGLY had sex with is no where near the same as rape. Apples and oranges. A complete different thing 100% and I have no idea where you get the logic from to even compare those two.

 

[DharmaGirl]

Why would anyone want PTSD or cPTSD? Your suffering is the same regardless of the name, and getting the right help is important. That's all that really matters. If you want cPTSD, you can have mine. I would gladly give it to you, leave the house, go back to work, have 3D friends, have a lover, invite people over...etc. If you are seeing a therapist, great! You are on your way to getting better. Kudos for doing that, but please don't label yourself. Let the psychologist do that and help you according to your needs.

Oh, and as for the willing, regretful sex vs rape; it is like buying those pair of expensive shoes you can't return and having second thoughts, and being mugged.

 

[Sideways]

@mumstheword - perhaps consider for a moment what it would be like to have someone wonder out loud why what you went through has left you so unwell...

I’m hearing genuine curiosity in your posts. There are reasons why sexual assault is a Crit A trauma. And yes, they are a little more scientific than “it’s really traumatic”.

If you genuinely want to know more about they why’s and wherefores about why Crit A trauma was defined thus in the latest DSM? The pros who sat on the panel and ultimately made that call are pretty widely published. And the science is pretty mind blowing. You can read about it if you want to.

If it’s just general curiosity? Perhaps be a bit more mindful of the audience on the site, yeah?

As a side? Acute Stress Disorder? Is a thing. The other Ongoing Relationship Trauma “Disorders” you keep referring to? Aren’t much more than the opinion of a guy who wrote an article that you related to. And I suspect, if you read more about CPTSD (which is now a thing - it’s in the ICD), you’d probably find that it covers far more of what you now experience than you realise. Perhaps start with Judith Herman.

Stockholm Syndrome? Is a thing. In large part, that’s because it is (and has only ever claimed to be) a syndrome, not a disorder.

The answers to your questions? Take books to explain. Not a few posts. So have a think about what it is you’re after, before just “wondering out loud” in this room full of people that have first hand exper of the things you’re wondering about...??

 

[mumstheword]

Sorry if I upset of offended, totally not my intention.
I guess I was still feeling bad for the OP who seemed to get really offended and upset.
My bad.
Maybe my empathy was misplaced.
Myself and @Scarlet13 went through some horrific abuse at the hands of narcissists and I guess I'm a little triggered feeling that that's been minimized by implication by some here.

Truly the years of hell mental abuse and neglect at the hands of my narc abusers are what haunt me day and night.

The times I've been raped and assaulted I hardly remember and give little thought to.
I'm not trying to be insensitive to others at all or minimize what they've been.through, it's just that living with narcassists for heaps of years is what I struggle to.overcome, more than just about anything else.

So I feel for others who have similar wounds and scars, and wanted to offer some open-minded solace to people like the OP. And some further things to.look into, rather than just " You can't get PTSD from that, go find another site" which sounds pretty harsh to me, but maybe I'm just being reactive from my own trauma.

If I'm misguided, I truly apologize, especially if I've offended, but it's come out of genuine care for others suffering, not the opposite.

 

[mumstheword]

As for someone wondering aloud about what made me so unwell?
I'd like others to grow in awareness and understanding from my shitty life of shit, so it's not just years and years of suffering with no positive outcome. If I can help others become more aware and increase their ability to respond and be compassionate, then all this utter crap, doesn't feel so worthless and pointless and just cruel.

I'm happy to share about how my narc ex and my mother made me suicidal and i can't get their evilness out of my head. How they made me feel worthless and put me at such risks and demoralized me so I put myself at risk so that the rapey guy and the rapey and drugging then strangling guy was a direct result of the utterly demoralization and lack of safety and care afforded me by my narc mum. Because she communicated I wasn't worthy of care, I learnt to put myself in risk and exploitation situations.

She taught me to hate myself and allow myself to be nearly killed and treated like a slave and sex slave for years.

I just don't want to.see people coming in here after experiencing a close relationship with a or multiple narcissist(s) being treated in a minimizing, invalidating manner, because it doesn't fit with others experience or how they interpret the DSM manual, if i can help it.

Sure it may not have caused their PTSD but that's for the clinicians to work out. This place is for support is it not? Support from trauma? So address what's traumatizing or, if you have no experience with that kind of trauma, you could always just refrain from commenting.
Please don't try play you do, or you don't qualify, with suffering souls who have suffered at the hands of cunning mindf*ckers. No body knows how much others have suffered, especially from a brief summation post, but if it's narcissistic abuse, it's still very very bad and deserves a little more sensitivity than.folks getting all clinical on them.

 

[lostforgottensoul]

You can't get PTSD from that, go find another site"

NO ONE said that but be real. This IS a peer support site for PTSD so if the OP likely doesn't have PTSD then they are not best served here. Hell, Psych Central has a support forum for every single mental health issue known to man. Why would the OP not seek out something else that best suits their issues? That's like saying I'd rather stay at a car machinc and insist they fix my PC. That's not what they do there. You seem to be projecting. A lot.

I'm happy to share about how my narc ex and my mother made me suicidal and i can't get their evilness out of my head.

Maybe look into starting a trauma diary? They are great places to post things like this and it helped me to stop throwing up a ton of my own crap onto other's threads. Which I did a lot of in the beginnings of my time here. Just an idea.

Please don't try play you do, or you don't qualify, with suffering souls who have suffered at the hands of cunning mindf*ckers. No body knows how much others have suffered, especially from a brief summation post, but if it's narcissistic abuse, it's still very very bad and deserves a little more sensitivity than.folks getting all clinical on them.

PTSD does not equal all suffering. I am not sure how we can say that any clearer. One can be suffering way more then a PTSD sufferer but not have PTSD themselves and actually have something completely different. There are also MANY crossover symptoms. I have MANY crossover symtpoms just with PTSD & BPD (which I suspect both will turn into CPTSD if the DSM follows suit with the ICD). Which can get confusing. This is why we advise it. It has nothing to do with telling the person to go away. It has to do with what would help them the best. And just like a car mechanic cannot fix my PC, a PTSD support site cannot support all other mental health disorders.

 

[Sideways]

Support from trauma?

Specifically support for ptsd. Which is a much, much narrower scope than support from ‘trauma’.

 

[mumstheword]

Ok. Thank guys. I'm hearing you.
I do get it.
I think I am venting from my own trauma and again, I apologize for my insensitivity to rape victims. Sooooo not my intention but I see how it can be taken that way.

I have started a trauma diary.

I hope people can forgive me my insensitive querying ...
And my clumsy attempt at supporting the OP, who appears to be long gone anyway.

I'm pretty dissociated from my own rape experiences, which, I think, causes that insensitivity.
Something to work on in my trauma diary.

I get really upset if I know I've upset people's feelings though, so I am genuinely, truly remorseful and I won't be saying anything like that again.

And by pretty dissociated, I mean very dissociated. I definitely need to address that.