Ptsd from narcissistic abuse

[Sideways]

@mumstheword - it happens. It’s pretty easy to slide from empathy to projection when the topic is hitting close to home. I think most of us do that from time to time:)

 

[mumstheword]

@mumstheword - it happens. It’s pretty easy to slide from empathy to proje...

Thanks for understanding @Ragdoll Circus . It's an eye opener, being part of this forum. I'm learning tons about myself and this condition and I have SO MUCH to address and work through that I haven't even started on. I really appreciate the feedback. It helps me get a handle on myself.

 

[mumstheword]

Why would anyone want PTSD or cPTSD? Your suffering is the same regardless of the name, and getting...

In regards to the shoe analogy. I guess, if by buying the shoes you mean being lied to and having the salesperson misrepresent the shoes and doing an out and out ruthless manipulative sell job on a pair of shoes that are total crap and will hurt you and damage your feet, and you are poor and cannot afford to buy another pair so it's go barefoot or wear the shoes that kill your feet a little bit more everyday, then yes, maybe that analogy could work, but in general, I think you underestimate the ability of sexual predatory narcissists to hurt and damage. Because it's not like just sleeping with someone you regret, it's like having a demon gets their claws into your entire being and slowly shredding you from the inside.

 

[mumstheword]

Stockholm happens after the trauma. What you describe sounds like batter woman's syndrome....

Thank you for clarifying the Stockholm Syndrome thing.

I always wondered about that, because I was very invested in staying with my abuser no matter what until I became certain I was going to die fairly quickly if I didn't leave.

It took for the harm he wrought on my relationship with our children and the lies and slander of me after I left for me to start realizing the extent of his hatred of me. And how pissed he was that I left instead of dying. And getting into a women's shelter. I had to examine how I ended up there.

I still have to recount facts that remind me of how horrible he was and is to me and what he's done to our children and I have to recount a whole lot of facts so that I don't slip into the "it's all me, I'm defective, I'm crazy, everything is my fault because I'm a f*cked loser" loop, that I bought into for so long.

 

[Scarlet13]

I understand what you were trying to say, @mumstheword a while back.
You were saying that emotional abuse (such as narcissistic abuse) can be just as traumatizing to some as physical assault and rape.

You were saying that being rejected by someone you had children with and even loved, hurt you as much as being raped because it was someone you loved who essentially used you and then threw you away. Who emotionally abused you.

But you know being rejected by a partner is not the same as rape. I don't believe that is what you were saying.

I have read many articles that state that current research is pointing to how extreme, repetitive emotional abuse can lead to PTSD, specifically, Complex PTSD.
That extreme, repetitive daily psychological assaults can effect the brain and nervous system in similar ways to events like rape and physical abuse.
Just because it is emotional and verbal does not mean it cannot lead to PTSD, specifically CPTSD. And just because the current DSM does not include emotional abuse in the criteria does not mean it is not valid as a real cause for PTSD.
I know that the current DSM is what we have to work with. It was carefully written and based on research and that it is harmful to go outside of the text.
But, this "going outside of the text" by truly observing humans, collecting data, having conversations, and arriving at new conclusions about PTSD and CPTSD is necessary. This is how we arrived at the diagnoses of PTSD in the first place. This is how we change the text to be more reflective and accurate. The text that once stated homosexuality to be a mental disorder and that women were "hysterical".
Changing the text begins with conversations like we are having now.

I have seen on this forum, too many times, people coming for support who are then subjected to a debate about whether or not their suffering has the capacity to lead to PTSD. What is the point of this? Of turning people away? Making them feel terrible and more alone?
So that the DSM text can be strictly adhered to on this forum?
I get the importance of adhering to the mission of this forum, to support people who have been diagnosed with PTSD.
But what about CPTSD?
What about the people who just need a place to start for emotional support before they can even seek professional help?
Well, I guess there are other sites for them.

Of course PTSD gets over used. People do come on here saying things like,
"I broke up with my boyfriend and now I have PTSD."
But, like this post, she could really possibly have CPTSD.
So give her support. Tell her to go see a therapist for her diagnosis.

 

[EveHarrington]

As for someone wondering aloud about what made me so unwell?
I'd like others to grow in awareness a...

Do you understand what you are saying and doing?

You reply that you don't want people who have been abused by narcissists to come here and feel minimized, while at the same time turning around and doing the exact same thing, minimizing the experiences of rape victims.

I'm really concerned about your posting while dissociated as it shows a big disconnect in your thinking. I'm glad you've recognized it yourself. I think we have all posted while dissociated at one point or another! (At various levels of dissociation that is.)

 

[EveHarrington]

I understand what you were trying to say, @mumstheword a while back.
You were sayi...

From what I gather, a CPTSD diagnosis first requires a PTSD diagnosis. (Or has this changed? I can't keep up.)

 

[FragileGlass]

I have seen on this forum, too many times, people coming for support who are then subjected to a debate about whether or not their suffering has the capacity to lead to PTSD. What is the point of this? Of turning people away? Making them feel terrible and more alone?
So that the DSM text can be strictly adhered to on this forum?

@Scarlet13
In the short time i have been on this forum I have seen a number of people come in to debate whether a poster has PTSD because it doesn't fall in line of the web site guidelines. Often times people come to forums as last resort or beginning their journey.

I'll tell you, there is a real cost to this kind of behaviour because people minimize base on these strict guidelines. When people finally figure they have no place to go and they are shut down for their emotions they choose desperate roads.

My time in the Emergency Unit in three hospitals has netted me a far too high suicide count because the person truly felt there was no place else to go.

 

[lostforgottensoul]

From what I gather, a CPTSD diagnosis first requires a PTSD diagnosis.

That is correct! Therefore emotional abuse alone would never lead to a CPTSD disgnosis because it comes short of criteria A.

Just because it is emotional and verbal does not mean it cannot lead to PTSD, specifically CPTSD. And just because the current DSM does not include emotional abuse in the criteria does not mean it is not valid as a real cause for PTSD.

Yes, yes it does. First of all, you must fit the diagnosic criteria for PTSD before being able to then fit the criteria for CPTSD. So emotional abuse alone would not lead to CPTSD because it doesn't fit PTSD diagnosic criteria.

The DSM and ICD is what all doctors diagnose from. If it is not in there TODAY then you cannot be diagnosed with it TODAY.

I am repeating myself at this point. OY VEY!

 

[EveHarrington]

@Scarlet13
In the short time i have been on this forum I have seen a number of...

We just get tired of the people who come here and say getting dumped gave them ptsd.

It's tiring. It's invalidating. And people then resolve their symptoms fairly quickly leading to the idea that ptsd is so easy to get over, when the truth is that they never had ptsd to begin with.

 

[FragileGlass]

@EveHarrington

PTSD isn't a prestigious piece of real estate that deserves this kind of protection. It's not a badge of honour to have. I'm not seeing moderators shut down 'bad breakups' I'm seeing them shut down serious emotional distress while the OP may not have all the clinical criteria..... the moderators may 'know their stuff', are also not qualified to diagnose either. This is dangerous practice, because people who do have or potentially do have PTSD are high risk for suicide and self harm.

If the medical staff including myself got tired of people and their self medicated claims in the ER on a daily basis like I see moderators do in here. My body count would be a lot higher. Keyboard warriors need to remember this when shutting people down in mental health forums.

 

[Scarlet13]

These are very valid points, but there is a difference between you (and other mental health responders) and forum moderators.
You have more training and are committing to a different level of responsibility.
Moderators are not signing up deliberately for suicide prevention.
But still your points are valid. As are mine.
I think that some inclusivity and some allowance for individuals that are just figuring things out should be included in this forum in balance with a firm mission that underscores those that suffer with PTSD.
Mental health is always in flux, always changing. However, this must be balanced with firm, clear guidelines of what PTSD is and is not. Mental health guidelines are changed and updated because people speak out on their symptoms, arguing to be included in the criteria. That is where it starts.

I have observed a culture on this forum of exclusivity where it does not need to be.
There is a difference between this original post and people who come here with "relationship difficulties."