Questioning The Relationship With My Mother

[Ruth09]

Ayesha,

I'm in a toxic relationship with my mother, too. I soooo understand where you are coming from.

I didn't want to accept it. But, my T wants me to deal with the emotional pain and anger I suffered as a kid before I can deal with my military PTSD.

I didn't want to accept the emotional damage my toxic parents had on me. But, I have to fight those demons before I can fight the military ones.

It wasn't your fault. You were just a kid just as I was. As kids, we deserve the unconditional love and support of our parents for f*ck sake.

Mom is the name of God on the lips of a child.

My mom was such a f*cking bitch, too.

(((Hugs))) Ayesha

Ruth

 

[Lady of Longbourn]

In 2008 when the stock market was crashing, my parents took out all of my college fund money out of a mutual fund. They had not been watching it, and it had lost tons and tons of money. I don't really blame them for that, I had never been there priority and they couldn't have known it would happen.

I played the clarinet for awhile when I was young. I was the best student in the class, the top of the class. My teacher favored me, and would pull me aside after class and tell me to do this or that, He wanted me to be great at it. Even I admitted to myself I was good, I wasn't tone-deaf like the other kids. My pitch was perfect, and so was my sound. When I started I had not been sexual abused yet, about a year in ( or less maybe), I was starting to be abused. My grades were already bad becasue of depression and not learning the material in elementary school. But band class was my refuge. After the child pornography started, there were times, that my parents would use it against me. I was suddenly "bad" again, and a "problem" again; my depression and motivation was worse and so were my grades.

By my three year of band class, I had completely stopped playing. I flat out refused to even touch my rented clarinet. My teacher took pity on me and passed me anyway. Sometimes I wonder if he guessed anything. I think I remember him asking me vague questions. But it wouldn't have mattered, I was already 'groomed'.

When they gave me that money...I thought about it for months. There would be lots money left over, but I felt so guilty.

I went out and bought the best semi-professional clarinet I could find, it for me. For the kid I was. Its a Buffet Crampon clarinet, made with the best African blackwood and shiny silver keys, its a amazing piece of art work. The French company has been making them ( Video of that! And good music! [DLMURL]https://www.ptsdforum.org/c/media/the-making-of-a-buffet-crampon-clarinet.611/[/DLMURL] ) for for almost 200 years and very well known with clarinet players.

God, I love that clarinet. But I rarely play it, it sits in my closet, in its case and the box it came in. I take it out every few months to clean and do maintenance but...Its still to hard, to much of a memory. Of what I could have been. How proud I could have made my parents for the first time in my life and that band teacher.

The whole time I was thinking of buying it, and when I first saw it in front of me; leather case, red velvet interior... I kept hearing my mother screaming at me in my ear as a child.." You are so selfish...You are such a brat...selfish, selfish, selfish."

I can't touch it. I pity me.

 

[Lady of Longbourn]

I think this thread should be for anyone who questions there relationship with there mother. Feel free to rant.

 

[Ruth09]

I try to tell my self that my mother isn't allowed to live in my head "rent free".

There are little things in my life that bring me happiness. And because I feel the world is sh*t,... its taken time for me to believe that I deserve this happiness. I deserve this happiness without having to "listen" to my mother's rant in my head.

I'm not living in her head, so I tell myself that she isn't allowed to live in mine, not anymore.

Its taken time,... but,... the things I enjoyed doing,... ARE becoming fun again.

Its work. Alot of work. The b*tch did her damage.

But, this little girl likes to play in the mud with her dog. And I don't care if I'm over 40.
The b*tch needs to stay out of my head. Because, I'm going to play with my dog in the mud.
And I don't care who is watching.

Ruth

 

[maddog]

Ayesha, your post about your music made me cry.

Don't think I'm up to making the contribution I'd like to make to this thread. For years... almost all of my life, I lied for my mother, told myself that she was just his victim too and that her silence, her complete withdrawal and rejection, her knowing ignorance, her "turn the other way" approach, were all because she was afraid and repressed and powerless as well. I did everything in the world to make myself believe this.

Then I remembered the time she watched me have to kill my dog after he'd beaten her head in with a crowbar and left her for dead, and all she said was "you've cut your hand..."

And I remember the night my father kicked and cut me for hours and my mother came to check my pulse to see if I was still alive, coldly asked him what he'd done, and then turned and walked away with him, leaving me on the back of our yute unconscious like a dead dog.

Or the time, after I'd been suspended from school for self harming, she told me that if only I'd done a proper job with the knife, they wouldn't have to bother with me anymore.

That is the person I made excuses for.

And people wonder why I think I'm crazy.

 

[Eleanor]

Ayesha, Thank you for your courage, first of all. And for your honesty too - which in this case amounts to the same thing. I just wanted to say that I am so deeply sorry that the adults charged with your care as a child were so utterly worthless at those times when they were not positively horrible. And I am grateful to you for having survived and being willing to share so much of yourself with us here. I know you have made a difference in my life, and the life of my little daughter - and hopefully will have in the lives of our grown up girls as well.

IMHO Children are biologically programmed to love their parents, particularly their mothers. It doesn't make a particle of difference how disgustingly badly they have treated their child, still, the child loves. It is just how we are made. There is nothing rational or voluntary about it. And in cases like yours it is best to do it from a very great distance. Preferably with an ocean in between. And bad phone service.

I have been, gradually gradually, coming to terms with my mother's (in retrospect) rather glaring weaknesses as a mother ("emotionally absent" is what I am working with now.) I knew of friends who would talk to their mothers about their trials and tribulations - but I don't recall EVER doing so. I mean, why would I? It never seemed to me that she was remotely interested in my internal life.. it just seemed so Normal that my likes and dislikes, loves and hates, joys and tears were just my business and not hers. I have had to really think long and hard about how to have a different kind of relationship with my girl(s). I just don't have a good model. Play with your kids? Why? How? To what end? I knew/know I should, and I can and do (sometimes, not very well) but... it's just so foreign. Small beans compared to your experience, but even this leaves a gaping hole in the heart. And confusion. Lots and lots of confusion. Where WAS she? :(

Didn't mean this to turn into a rant, and thanks for the permission all the same!

 

[Lady of Longbourn]

When I was a kid, I think about 8 to 11 years old, my family went to the beach. Not unusual for us, because it was not to far away from our home.

My stepfather, mother, aunt and uncle were all there. I don't get to see my aunt and uncle very much. So I was excited. We were driving on the way there, with probably about an hour left in the drive, I started to feel very sick. My stomach hurt a lot. I leaned on to my mother, wanting comfort. She thought I was faking to get attention ( I seemed to get treated like this by her a lot), and she pushed me away. I still remember the look on her face; anger and annoyance. I was sitting between my aunt and mother. I tried to cuddle up to her again and she elbowed me in my side. I was moaning by now...becasue it hurt! I still remember how it felt.

My aunt finally looks at my mother and says "[Mom] I think she is ill and in pain." My mother seemed to notice and then started comforting me. I have always wondered about that. Why did she push me away? And if my aunt was not there, what would she have said? Bet it was worse then just pushing me away.

 

[maddog]

Oh...

The rejection of pain and distress in a young child by a caregiver is one of the most common, yet one of the most unforgiveable, sins of parenthood. I think many of us know, but cannot really express, the depth of damage that can be done by such apparently simple acts of rejection.

No wonder you still remember it so vividly, shame on her.

I am so sorry.

Maddog

 

[mamachick]

Ayesha I do not want to be intrusive and so if I am and you do not want to think about what I am asking, I will understand. You have been so hurt by your mothers actions and my heart goes out to you. Your needs were important then and are important now.
When you describe going to the beach and feeling ill in the car, what you describe is your mother being cold and calous in comforting you.

By chance was your mother the youngest of other siblings, was she criticized or pushed around by others besides her first husband, did she think her second husband knew it all, more than she? What was her relationship with her own parents? It sounds like she deferred to others opinions more than trusting her own intuitions often. In this situation, it sounds like she waited until her sister coaxed (gave permission) her to comfort you.

Maddog, I have always found your posts very comforting and you show so much compassion. I think that you are so right in what you say, though I do not think many things a parent does is unforgivable. I do not think things should be forgiven until ready, which often takes a very long time, but in the end, I think many sins of parents are very forgivable, which means we accept they happened, but doesnt mean we agree with the behavior. I just am afraid we cannot heal without that forgiveness.

I am a parent. Parents are humans and humans fail. I got a lot of help and worked through my family issues after my first daughter, but before the 2nd and 3rd. There were almost 12 years between the 1st and 2nd. Therefore, my second and third children had the benefit of a much better mother. Even so, I am human. When we are young and having children, we think that just by being different than our parents were, we will do a much better job. That is not true-it is wishful thinking. We can do the opposite and cause as much damage. For myself, and for many others from very dysfunctional families, we need to throw everything out and start from scratch. It is deeper than what we do on the surface, it is rooted in our beliefs and our parental actions are not limited to a bubble of parenthood. Our life overflows into parenting issues. If we are angry with our own parents, it will have effects on our children. So please know that when I am reading and asking questions, I am only trying to help in my own way and from what I have learned.

 

[Srain]

I feel compelled to say that it's been my personal experience in understanding too soon and forgiving too soon without the acknowledge of one's own feelings or the room to go through them is a HUGE misstep and mistake, just my opinion. I'm a mother too, I made my share of mistake therefore I put my issues with my mother on the back burner for years, always understanding her as mother to mother rather than child to mother which is a different set of circumstances entirely. It's putting the cart before the horse.

I hope I'm making sense here. I'm not saying to not forgive or understand, certainly not in all cases, but there is a real blockade to doing that before the clearing out of pain and damage done , that is a continued cripple relationship based on the child acting as the adult seeking acceptance and understanding from an adult that continues to withhold that parental love. It can continue to be very mixed up for the Survivor.

I think there is plenty of room for questions like you are having, Ayesha, and I think you are brave for continuing to write it and get it all out. Good on you.

Peace and hugs,
Rain

*Please understand, Brat17, I meant no disrespect as to your position on this and understand that you were just putting a suggestion or question out there. I get that. I respect your opinion always.

 

[maddog]

Hi Brat. Sadly, I'm not sure I'm going to be able to do justice to what I want to say/explore this morning, which is a shame, because the things you say in your post above deserve a really considered response.

Let me say first off that I am not a parent. Truthfully, I am humbled by the responsibilities and implications of this role, more and more so the older I get and the more I try to confront my own past and upbringing. Sometimes I think I would love a child more than anything in the world... often I'm just secretly, sadly glad that I don't have one, because I doubt I could do justice to that responsibility, and my fear of "screwing it up" is dabilitating to even think about. Parenthood is the greatest privillege and the greatest responsibility humankind can ever know, I truly believe that.

Secondly, let me say that I, of all people, have come to learn and accept that under the right circumstances, human beings are capable of just about anything. We all take a turn on our moral high horse at times, trotting out the old "I would never..." or "I would always..." black and white statements. I'm as guilty of it as anyone.

But you know, it's bunk!! I believe we are all capable of great good, and of great bad. I use those simplistic terms because I don't want to get caught up in moral or philosophical debates about evil etc. We are all the combined product of our biology, our past experiences and our current circumstances/context, and when those things together conspire against us, anything is possible.

So I say all that to say that it's easy, so painfully, tragically easy, to judge in hindsight the actions of others. I have no doubt whatsoever that people act the way they do for specific reasons, whether or not those reasons are obvious or known to others. Parents make mistakes, act badly, do the wrong thing... they ignore their children's needs, suppress their emotions, punish and retaliate against them and engage in all manner of "inappropriate" behaviours for all sorts of different reasons. Every parent has probably done all of those things once, twice, three times, a hundred times... and most feel terrible about it afterwards.

And we, as PTSD sufferers, know better than anyone that negative or maladaptive ways of thinking, behaving and feeling, once burned into our brains, can take forever to heal, if they ever do, and can cause us to react in all sorts of ways that to the external observer are inappropriate and completely illogical. Parents are not immune to this, and so the parent who has experienced their own abuse or neglect, or who battles against the adversity of other life circumstances, can predictably be expected to behave in ways which don't quite align with parent of the year criteria.

Sorry, I'm not explaining where I'm trying to get to here...

In spite of all of the above, at some point, I do believe there is a line beyond which it is not ok to cross. Believe me, I'm humbly acknowledging that I'm not sure where it is, or even if I'd know if I ever crossed it. But there is a point at which adults are adults, children are children, and the responsibility you implicitly accept by becoming a parent must be called to account.

It's the line between punishment/discipline and abuse... the line between harshness and neglect... the line between facilitating and suppressing the normal health and development of a child.
We all feel trapped by our circumstances at times, but truth be told we almost always have options to seek help or to abdicate our responsibilities for a time if we're unable to meet them.

Getting angry at a child is different from emotionally and psychologically brutalising that child. Hitting a child is different from beating a child. Ignoring a child is different from rejecting a child. Lapses of judgment are different from established patterns of behaviour.

Unless we are completely out of touch with reality, there is a point at which we all know that what we are doing is wrong, and those who choose to persistently go beyond that line do so while committing wilful damage upon the lives of others.

Sorry, this is getting too triggering, I don't know if I've said anything useful and hope I haven't offended anyone. This is all just really difficult...

Maddog

 

[mamachick]

Srain, thank you for pointing that out and I agree totally agree with everything you are saying. I have also put that cart in front of the horse as well. I have had to go back and re-work again. I know too many people that are very stuck because they have forgiven and repeat "my parents did the best they could", and are stagnant in recovery.

My thought was that if we can validate our losses and grieve, and at the same time identify the shortcomings of the one that hurts us, it can often allow us to feel the hurt and grief for ourselves and process that with all the information, but with the other persons situation secondary to our own healing. Our feelings must remain the priority. Without that consideration, we may feel more anger than hurt, or fear, or whatever the primary feeling is. As anger is a secondary emotion and comes out in response to something else (fear, hurt, embarrassment, jelousy, etc). Just a suggestion and not right for every person.

You make perfect sense, and I take no offense or feel no disrespect at all. You are absolutely right in pointing out what happens when we forgive too soon or even try to empathise too soon with that parent. Thanks for adding. Your opinions are always welcome.

Ayesha, I also think you are very brave in your writings. You are very articulate and insightful. I hope someday you connect with music again and play your clairenet.