Sense Of Self

[Upside Down Eagle]

I have a question which I guess is best answered by those who have been abused. If not feel free to reply - my question is about formation of personal identity during infancy and those who have seen their personal identity replaced by the values of others.

In my personal space here on the forum I wrote that therapists sometimes see me as having a "fragmented personality". I do not agree with this because having a fragmented personality would imply that my personality is divided into different aspects, which is clearly not the case in my own experience.

When my personality is present, it is very clearly defined. People who know me, would say the same thing. There are no incongruities in my behavior and no significant differences in my way of relating to them from one day to the next. My viewpoints and my way of standing in the world remains the same.

Instead, what seems to happen in my case, unlike those with fragmented personalities, is that my personality simply disappears in situations where I have very shaky boundaries (as happens most often when a pathway to past experiences is triggered or during wintertime, when my mental health is more unstable).

What I mean is that in certain situations I lose all sense of who I am. People who have not experienced this, might not understand. What happens is a complete vacuum in which sense of self is taken over by the sense of the identity of other people. So when I don´t have a self, but I know the personality of the person next to me, the sense of their personality will occupy the void left.

My parents used to nullify and reject my personality to replace it with their own imprint, violently, which I think has caused this "escaping" character of my sense of self, but I don´t know how to retain it in these situations. It is a very horrible experience for me in which I still feel that "something is wrong, I am not sure who I am, I am only sure who others are".

I would like to undo this damage but I don´t know where to start and I´m immensely tired of random psychotherapists and psychiatrists just mis-interpreting and misreading everything I say in order to just prescribe some treatment or medication that never works.

 

[Gs172003]

Define " infancy"

 

[shimmerz]

Yeah, I totally get this in my own way. I think it came, for me, by having a part of my identity being - well, an infant. An infant that had no sense of myself.

I recall distinctly when I used to go into my catatonic states being fully and completely invested in the person that was with me. I could literally feel them (it felt). I was clearer than I have ever been in my life because I was so attuned to what that person was doing - where they were - what they were thinking.... I don't know how to explain it in words, but my T seemed to understand it without my words. There was no cognition and I think that is why it felt like there was no sense of self. Just an instinct to 'follow' and be invested in the person that was with me. For myself, my body couldn't move, nor could I see when I was in this state (at the beginning). As I gained more control over my body I would still flip into these states. I used to say that if put into such a state I would follow anyone blindly..... and I would. And I did. It was super dangerous.

I was 4 days old when my first body trauma occurred. And it was a doozy.

I was new at all of this and had no freaking idea of what was happening to me. It was scary. Confusing. I thought I was actually DID with this infant self of mine. My T said no, it was a fragmented piece. I am still not certain.

Anyway, not sure if it is the same thing as you.... but I can definitely relate to what you are saying in my own way @Radise.

 

[Upside Down Eagle]

It´s a lot like that. Except I don´t experience the same kind of trance-like state, if I understand you correctly. It feels more like a void but this is very abstract - maybe it is dissociation (but it does not feel the same as when I dissociate in the supermarket - because then I still have a sense of my identity).

I am unclear as what therapists mean when they say it´s a "fragmented piece" or "fragmented personality structure". As far as I know I have one clear-cut personality which can nevertheless be replaced by the identity of others, leaving only the things that you described - their thoughts, their feelings, their behavior...

@Zoogal you are free to interpret this in your own way. I am not willing to delineate any clear-cut age boundaries for infancy because everybody has a different experience.

 

[The Albatross]

I also was described in therapy as having a "fractured personality", likely toddler age or before trauma - near as he could figure. Boy can I relate when you shared this, "My parents used to nullify and reject my personality to replace it with their own imprint, violently, which I think has caused this "escaping" character of my sense of self, but I don´t know how to retain it in these situations. It is a very horrible experience for me in which I still feel that "something is wrong, I am not sure who I am, I am only sure who others are".

I am having less "episodes" these last couple years, but am looking at a relocation to a whole new area and am concerned about this. Having been in my smallish community for 36 years I have a sense of confidence and know the area and the people in it well.

Don't have a comment yet about the question in the OP but will watch the thread and maybe have something to contribute later Rad.

 

[MisterCatLady]

I would encourage you to try out therapists until you find a good match. I went through four before I found the one I am with now. A "good" therapist (however you define such) is invaluable to recovery in my opinion. I went in to this round of therapy describing my previous poor experiences and openly communicating what I needed from her... or at least, what I was able to describe at the time. I remember saying to her "you've never met anyone like me, don't look for the box you think I should go in" and that just happened to gel with her.

 

[Wendy T]

I have a question which I guess is best answered by those who have been abused. If not feel free to reply...

I think I get it. I often feel that there is no one home - and the way I know how to "be" is by glumming onto the person around me, and being so aware of what they are feeling, showing in their face, body language, words, etc. I just don't know how to "be". It can be a real problem if there is more than one person around, and I have to tune into 2 or 3, which makes me sound very wishy-washy and friends have said, "you don't stand for anything." I learned early not to think, not to feel, not to want, not to need, not to ask, not to "be/do anything", and letting the way be completely led by another person. I'm a great #2 in things. It's hard when my therapist will say "how are you feeling?" and I just feel blank, there is no-one feeling anything." I'm glad you posted this - and glad for the other responses. I thought it was just me who did life this way.

 

[Gs172003]

I guess I'm confused by all this.

 

[Upside Down Eagle]

I used to sort of stick to other people too. But I think there was a small difference - I was mainly sticking to people in which I recognized traits that I then saw were my own (they mirrored parts of me). Even then it was very difficult to detach myself from them, too. Most often I never chose to "cling" to anybody - an intrusive sense of their personality would "cling" to me in a way that I couldn´t shake.

The above has gotten better over time. I´m guessing part of it is becoming integrated as a person - becoming more "whole". The more whole you are, the less the inclination to piggy-back on someone else´s personality (not meant to offend anyone) and the less prone to be affected or to be overshadowed by the personality of others.

The problem I have with the description of a fragmented or fractured personality is that it is possibly very damaging to see yourself that way, unless it helps in resolving problems (as with DID). If you perceive yourself as fractured to begin with then that´s not a very stable basis on which to operate. The second problem is it´s unclear what they mean when they say fractured, because fractured implies a split. And I don´t understand what kind of split they envision if your personality goes to hide from time to time.

I think I might ask my old therapist. @MisterCatLady (awesome name) I had one therapist, out of a lot (a lot), who was really good. But she wasn´t specialized in the kind of issues that I have - she usually treats less complex diagnoses. Out of all of them she was the only one I found that actually acted like a human being when she was with me, rather than a distant professor. I´m not really willing to go through the process of digging through the distant shrinks again.

 

[The Albatross]

Rad said, "The problem I have with the description of a fragmented or fractured personality is that it is possibly very damaging to see yourself that way, unless it helps in resolving problems (as with DID). If you perceive yourself as fractured to begin with then that´s not a very stable basis on which to operate."

I guess I just don't see it as damaging... I saw/see it as a realistic picture to navigate with and learn how to cope with and manage. I have a small Ming vase with a couple "fractures" that was my grandmothers... she cherished it and the memories. I sort of focused on that I guess. I had to work hard earlier on to retrieve/find the good/happy memories and learn how to care for/care about... not quite up to "cherish" but working on it: Myself.

 

[Upside Down Eagle]

I like the portrayal of a vase with fractures in it. That´s what I meant though. No matter the fractures, it´s still one thing - a vase. The idea that I am divided is what bothers me, because I don´t perceive myself as such.

I´m not saying that it´s not okay to be divided. But for me it´s not a practical guideline.

 

[The Albatross]

That, Rad, would be a good thing to bring up to your shrink! I'd like to sit in on that session. I don't particularly feel "divided" either, however my moods swing far more widely and frequently and I can be hyper alert or distracted enough to do stupid things like pick up hot skillets or oven pans with my bare hands... still. :whistling: