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Service/Assistance or Emotional Support Animal Question

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Isn't that part of most diagnostic criteria for most mental disorders, though? Genuinely asking :)
Yes and no. Let’s say someone has bipolar disorder. On meds, for which they want to take and do take regularly, they are basically symptom free. It would be hard to make a case they are under the ADA. The standard for ADA to apply for someone is pretty high, and courts and amendments to the ADA are increasingly making it higher. Any diagnosis of any mental or medical condition doesn’t mean someone is under the ADA. It depends how severely the condition affects the person.
Care to elaborate a little bit on this? Since SDs perform specific tasks relevant to the disability, how would they benefit from "just a pet dog" instead? :) Again, genuine question.
If someone is panicky around rooms with no windows, instead of an SD to manage panic, they could ask for the ADA accommodation of space to work in a room with windows. That kind of thing. There are a lot more options to accommodate people with mental health related disabilities than most realize.

I personally believe that an SD should only be explored as an option when all others have been found to be insufficient. It’s a whole lifestyle change and comes with a lot of challenges. I have worked jobs with non-SD related accommodations and found it much easier to get promoted. I have worked jobs with an SD. I was often let out of meetings and other things because of the SD. Someone was allergic or it became a visible symbol I might not be able to do the task. Bias and discrimination are very real, and it isn’t great for mental health to have to constantly overcome it. There is good cause to really explore all other options.
 
but it seems that you’re making a lot of assumptions about what exactly “disability” entails.

I'm actually not because if you read back, that was one of my very first question because I only found very conflicting information regarding "disability" in regard to mental illnesses, BECAUSE I was trying to find and understand what "disability" entails.

if they have a disability that substantially limits Major life activities?

And for example, PTSD diagnostic criteria

G. The disturbance causes clinically significant distress or impairment in social, occupational, or other important areas of functioning.

Not the same thing? Again, genuinely asking.

I'm not trying to make assumptions but actually really trying to understand, particularly semantics.
 
Not every mental health diagnosis has that as the criteria and courts and enforcement offices have ruled not every mental health condition is wholly covered.

Not all conditions listed in the DSM-IV, however, are disabilities, or
even impairments, for purposes of the ADA. For example, the DSM-IV lists
several conditions that Congress expressly excluded from the ADA's
definition of "disability."8 While DSM-IV covers conditions involving drug
abuse, the ADA provides that the term "individual with a disability" does
not include an individual who is currently engaging in the illegal use of
drugs, when the covered entity acts on the basis of that use.9 The DSM-IV
also includes conditions that are not mental disorders but for which
people may seek treatment (for example, problems with a spouse or
child).10 Because these conditions are not disorders, they are not
impairments under the ADA.11
EEOC Enforcement Guidance on the Americans with Disabilities Act and Psychiatric Disabilities
 
@Freida You don't have to defend having a SD to anyone, especially not here :) Your SD's tasks are all very valid.
Oh no --- I didn't feel that :) Just how I think about it ....
I personally believe that an SD should only be explored as an option when all others have been found to be insufficient. It’s a whole lifestyle change and comes with a lot of challenges.
This is SO true. Deciding to get a service dog was a really tough process. Mostly because once you have a service dog everyone in the world knows you are broken. Before I could hide my crazy. but once you vest up a dog and stick him by your side? You may as well just shout from the rooftops "I CANT COPE!" At first it was really embarrassing. It was eally hard to admit that my ptsd was so bad I needed him. Then he started doing his thing and it made the embarrassment worth it.

I am ALWAYS noticed. ALWAYS. No matter where I go people are staring at me. It took a long time to understand they weren't staring at me - they are staring at him. Sadly my service dog is very unusual looking so people stop me all the time to ask what he is. My trainer was big on being an advocate for service dogs and being patient with people. There are times I just can't so hubby intervenes or I don't make eye contact. I hate it but it forces me to be friendly so it's worth it. Its good practice I guess :laugh:

Its like travelling with a toddler --- do I have food, water, poop bags? Is he tired, hungry, over stimulated? Do I have the right leash for what we are doing? Do I have his seatbelt in the car? have I told wherever I'm going that I'm bringing a dog: (I've found that makes it easier). And on and on. It was a steep learning curve for both me and hubby. And it was also hard because my friends and family know I have ptsd but they don't know how bad it is. That was a tough conversation to have.

Bias and discrimination are very real, and it isn’t great for mental health to have to constantly overcome it.
Yep. the people I worked with were HORRIBLE to me when I first brought him in. Many of them demanded to know why I got to bring my dog to work and they didn't. Then they were pissed off that I wouldn't them what he was for. These weren't friends -- just co-workers. It was pretty ugly. Eventually they settled down - probably because I go let him say hi on fridays :laugh: I worked with one gal who had serious allergies so she and I had to make a plan so we could meet without him affecting her but she was on board with working it out with me. That was nice.

so ya this is not a choice you make on a whim. It comes with a lot of soul searching. He's the best thing that's happened to me in a long time, but that doesn't mean it's easy.
 
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I personally believe that an SD should only be explored as an option when all others have been found to be insufficient.

Why though? Possible disadvantages, discrimination, and other challenges, which are all valid concerns one should be aware of (but which, at the end of the day, is up to each person to decide whether they're really a problem or something they're willing to put up with) aside, isn't it just another form of treatment, which is an individual choice? Why would we favor medication over a SD, for example? Not everyone likes to take medication. Not everyone is comfortable with EMDR therapy. .... I think it should be a treatment option that should be just as valid as others, tailored to the individual's preferences and needs.

Laws aside for a second, I still think we should be careful with umbrella statements like this. What might be major concerns for one person might be nothing for another. But I sense there's also a lot of cultural difference at play, here. A dog out and about would not be a major draw of attention in most Western European countries, for example, regardless of whether it's a pet dog or a SD.

Also, really, this:

Most of what my pdoc does is provide emotional support. Most of what my T does is provide emotional support. Most of what my meds do is help regulate my emotions. And if you have Major Depressive Illness? Emotional support, all by itself, can be what keeps you alive.
 
Also - and this is not necessarily something everyone agrees with - I find in the US that there is an over-reliance on service dogs to assist with social/public anxiety. If all you do is depend on your dog to help you calm yourself....you're never going to learn how to do that for yourself, on your own. There's no incentive to change your own behavior, and I think it develops learned helplessness.

I absolutely agree.

Here is the thing my therapist and I talked about, a lot, before deciding to go with a service dog. Do I need him to function in daily life? Without a doubt. I was disocciating and ending up in places I do not remember going. One being the train tracks. Which is super dangerous as it's the Sunrail. So busy.

I picked tasks that I need right now. Cover and block due to the severity of fear of others. Panic alert. Disocciation alert (which are different). Alerting when someone is coming up behind me. And DPT. He also tells me when someone is around a corner or coming from areas I don't see.

Many times those look different. Example is he alerts to panic and I take him to a corner of the store, have him block in front of me and then allow myself to calm myself down. Or, he alerts to panic and I find the most out of the area place, sit on the floor and have him do DPT. Depends on my mental state.

That's only for PTSD. He has mobility tasks. But, those are the main ones for PTSD.

I don't have medication reminder alert. My phone app does that. Things I do not need, I did not train.

In addition, he is not my end all treatment. He is a treatment but never the end all. I still go to therapy and I still work on things, myself that he helps me with. I go to the store but maybe I try chatting with someone in line instead of having him block and keeping my head down. As an example. A service dog should not be the end all to treatment, in my opinion, for PTSD. Will I need a service dog forever for PTSD? I hope not. Do I need one now? Without a doubt!

There is something I was doing that was very maladative and very intrustive and made things a millon times worse for me. Making a millon exit plans in my head. It was automatic. It was uncontrolable. And it was very much domininate. It caused me to freeze up in public and added to the panic and disocciation. And even causing the disocciation After using a service dog for a year and a half (which is about how long he has been in public with me) I don't do that anymore. My therapist saw that as a huge healing step foward. It does make it being without him (if he is injured or something) way harder for now but for 8 years of therapy, I could not stop that from happening. So, that is a win.

I think, though, where many make a mistake is seeing a service dog as the end all to their treatment plan and then also going to a service dog too fast when other things can help better. I am in the opinion that a service dog is the last thing or one of the last things you should try. I can say, 8 years of therapy before a service dog, that it was for me. We tried everything else first. Many disagree and fight with me when I say that but that's just my own opinion.
 
. I am in the opinion that a service dog is the last thing or one of the last things you should try.
yep - agreed. T and I didn't even discuss a service dog until it became obvious that what we were doing wasn't enough. But that didn't mean he replaced all the work I was already doing. Endless years of therapy, meds, EMDR, equine therapy, exposure therapy are ongoing. He is just another tool in my tool box.

One of the really hard things about having a service dog are conversations like this one. There are some pretty definite opinions out there on people getting a service dog for ptsd because they just want a pet to keep them company or because they don't want to do the recovery work, or they want to game the system, or they refuse to learn how to calm themselves down and want to rely on a dog instead. It's not just this thread--- I've heard this a lot since I've started using one. My work environment was full of people accusing me of getting away with something. And I don't necessarily disagree that there are people out there gaming the system or they want a quick fix and that's a huge part of the problem.

but. There are also a lot of people who lump me, and others like me, into that same group and that is damned annoying. Unless they know why I'm where I'm at, what I've done in the past, what I'm doing in the present and how he fits into my recovery they don't get an opinion on why I have one. It's taken me a long time to get to a place where I can say that comfortably --- and it truly no longer bothers me. That's why I'm happy to answer questions and explain the ins and out of having a dog --- so that people can be better educated before they make assumptions about the choices I make for my sanity.

Dontcha love controversial topics??? :laugh:
 
@siniang - It might be worthwhile to consider reading more of the Service Dog Handler Lobby thread to get a better sense of what active service dog handlers experience on a day to day level. Another good thread: Service dog q&a

I also agree with others that there is an extreme over-reliance on SDs for psych issues in the US...
Do Americans love their dogs too much?

There is a point where an SD can become a crutch in a way that isn’t helpful. Sometimes people grow out of the crutch and the SD isn’t needed anymore... but the long term financial commitment, habit, and lifestyle changes have been made, so people keep using the SD crutch when they would be better served mental health wise by getting away from use of the dog to cope. Just like if someone used a physical crutch too long, there are downsides to mental health when using an SD as an SD when it’s not needed. It can increase avoidance of human contact without an SD and lead to greater symptoms without an SD than otherwise.
A dog out and about would not be a major draw of attention in most Western European countries, for example, regardless of whether it's a pet dog or a SD.
That’s simply not reality. At all. I have yet to meet someone who has used an SD for any lengths of time that expressed no issues with unwanted attention and access issues above and beyond what an owner of a pet dog would experience. Pet dogs are not perceived by the public like SDs are perceived, and SDs stand out significantly in part because they can go where dogs are not expected to be located. Many people in my city recognize me easily only because they know me as the girl with the service dog. Ugh. It’s not a good feeling.,

When I’m out walking a pet dog, no strangers walk up to ask, “what’s wrong with you?” and yet with and SD, this happens 3-4 times a week. It’s not fun. Just recalling now some of the dumb to semi-dangerous situations I’ve faced because I had an SD is kind of stressful for me... sigh. :( The vast majority of service dog users can give so many examples (and have on other service dog threads on the forum) of outright pushy and rude harassment by the general public that doesn’t happen as soon they take off the SDs vest and stay only where pet dogs can go.

I think it should be a treatment option
Service dogs are not a treatment. They are a very costly option, with significant drawbacks, to manage symptoms. SDs are more like a medical device and in many ways, should be handled as such. Part of what makes life with an SD a challenge is the public thinking it’s just like a pet and thus an SD can be called, whistled, played with, etc... when it’s more like an oxygen tank or life alert monitor. I can’t even say my service dog’s name in public because so many people started calling it while she is working and this is fairly common.

Of course people have preferences and need to make the choice that is right for them. No one has suggested otherwise. Treatment options pros and cons are discussed all the time here. People have recommendations based on a lot of personal experience on the forums about various ways of managing PTSD.

Imagine if there was a “medication” out there that required a 15 year commitment, which would have to be repeated and renewed every 7-10 years (because dogs live up to 15 but usually don’t work past 8-9 years), costs around $20,000 - $25,000 (on the low end) and is *never* covered by insurance. And this “medication” affects and limits travel, employment, etc, and the “medication” ending (the dog dying) usually leads to a season of really painful grief, etc.... and there is no certainty it would work and in fact the “medication” May have to be canceled but not the commitment and expense (the dog “washes out” due to health or behavioral issues) and the person would still need to pursue other options for actual treatment even if the “medication” was used daily... and the first 18 months to 2 years of this “medication” are hours a day spent training the “medication” (dog) to be able to performs its tasks, with constant reinforcement work over the lifetime of the use of the “medication.”

Folks would naturally be hesitant to dive into that medication as lightly as other medication or therapies for PTSD. It would also be significant if those who had actually taken this “medication” (had an SD for many years) generally recommend it as a last resort of all the options they had tried in their efforts to manage PTSD.

@siniang - You have only just recently started treatment and exploring treatment options and you are asking a lot of great questions. The vast majority of people with PTSD actually do get better. It’s only a small subset that suffer long haul symptoms.

It’s wonderful that your cats bring you emotional support. My cat helped me get through some dark nights. It is my recommendation that you continue to use all the supports you have available to you, and with treatment, you may find you are not regularly suffering from mental health symptoms and don’t have to worry about if the expensive long haul commitment of an SD is something you should pursue. My SD has saved my life more than once, in more than one way (and is a medical and psych dog) and I love her to bits. She works hard and I wish she didn’t have to work so hard. I’m personally looking forward to the day where I can have just pet dogs again. It was good for my heart.
 
@siniang - It might be worthwhile to consider reading more of the Service Dog Handler Lobby thread to get a better sense of what active service dog handlers experience on a day to day level. Another good thread: Service dog q&a

I'm already reading in those threads. :)

I do get what you're saying, I really do. I even pointed those disadvantages (or rather something to keep in mind) out, earlier :)

I also agree with others that there is an extreme over-reliance on SDs for psych issues in the US...

There is a point where an SD can become a crutch in a way that isn’t helpful. Sometimes people grow out of the crutch and the SD isn’t needed anymore... but the long term financial commitment, habit, and lifestyle changes have been made, so people keep using the SD crutch when they would be better served mental health wise by getting away from use of the dog to cope. Just like if someone used a physical crutch too long, there are downsides to mental health when using an SD as an SD when it’s not needed. It can increase avoidance of human contact without an SD and lead to greater symptoms without an SD than otherwise.

As opposed to pills... ?

Pet dogs are not perceived by the public like SDs are perceived, and SDs stand out significantly in part because they can go where dogs are not expected to be located. Many people in my city recognize me easily only because they know me as the girl with the service dog. Ugh. It’s not a good feeling.,

I get that, but this is still coming from an America-centric point of view. Not as obvious in other countries with less restricted public access where it's perfectly normal to see dogs (pet dogs, service dogs, ...) in most (public) places, at work, ... all the time.

Imagine if there was a “medication” out there that required a 15 year commitment, which would have to be repeated and renewed every 7-10 years (because dogs live up to 15 but usually don’t work past 8-9 years), costs around $20,000 - $25,000 (on the low end) and is *never* covered by insurance. And this “medication” affects and limits travel, employment, etc, and the “medication” ending (the dog dying) usually leads to a season of really painful grief, etc.... and there is no certainty it would work and in fact the “medication” May have to be canceled but not the commitment and expense (the dog “washes out” due to health or behavioral issues) and the person would still need to pursue other options for actual treatment even if the “medication” was used daily... and the first 18 months to 2 years of this “medication” are hours a day spent training the “medication” (dog) to be able to performs its tasks, with constant reinforcement work over the lifetime of the use of the “medication.”

Folks would naturally be hesitant to dive into that medication as lightly as other medication or therapies for PTSD. It would also be significant if those who had actually taken this “medication” (had an SD for many years) generally recommend it as a last resort of all the options they had tried in their efforts to manage PTSD.

Again, I totally get that. But what about people who already have a dog or would consider getting one either way (and yes I know that a SD is NOT a pet). Why not explore those options for them, only as a last resort?

A friend of mine is currently training the pet dog to become an assistance dog for PTSD.
I have another friend who only went to see a therapist to get a prescription for some antidepressants. No further therapy.

Yet another friend is mobility impaired. Most of the time she doesn't need anything, at all. Some days she needs crutches. Very rarely, but it does happen, she needs a wheelchair, with all the disadvantages and stigma that come with that. She doesn't need to rely on either crutches or wheelchair all the time, but she does have the options and tools, when she does. (taking examples away from SDs and more towards "crutches"). You wouldn't go ahead and say "hey, you don't need that wheelchair, your crutches are fine", now would you?

It is >one< tool in the toolbox, as Freida mentioned. It might be an option for some, but not everyone. But to discard it as a last resort is, in my observation, very limiting. I really get all what you mentioned and I totally agree. All the drawbacks and disadvantages and all the attachments that come with that. People who are pondering a SD should be completely aware of those. But still, some might be more willing - or able - to put up with that.

Look at OP who's getting a puppy, willing to make it a SD, eventually. If it was >only< a "medical device", wouldn't you think he would get an already trained SD instead?

if the expensive long haul commitment of an SD is something you should pursue.

I don't actually ponder getting a SD. :) Because I really don't think I >need< one and it wouldn't be honest.

What I do think, though, is that we're coming from completely different angles.

I used to have a dog. I will have a dog in my life, again. Because, just as you mentioned, it's good for my heart and mind. Animals make my life full. This is completely regardless of whether I need/want a SD or not. I'd be lying if I said I didn't find the prospect of training some tasks that would actually truly help with some of my symptoms tempting (and I absolutely don't have any doubt that stuff gets better, even without a SD, and I already only have episodic symptoms to begin with). Obviously public access would be very beneficial. But I don't think I would ever actually pursue it because, at the end of the day, a dog would be more emotional support for me than a real medical necessity (it would make some aspects of life easier, without doubt - see Sideway's comment earlier - and for me more GAD-related symptoms than PTSD, but still just not a necessity; I've obviously been coping somehow so far). And I don't want to game the system.
 
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.

Look at OP who's getting a puppy, willing to make it a SD, eventually. If it was >only< a "medical device", wouldn't you think he would get an already trained SD instead?
I got mine ass a puppy and hired a service dog trainer to do one on one training. It was pretty spendy (about $3000) but the alternative was being on a waiting list for 2 years and paying out $15000. There was a much higher commitment from me for the training but it also let me bond with him along the way sooo....
 
But what about people who already have a dog or would consider getting one either way. Why not explore those options for them, only as a last resort?
About 10-25% of dogs tested by professional SD training orgs have the right temperament and health for SD work. It may be 1-2 dogs in an entire litter of 11. About 50-70% percent of those dogs will fail SD training and wash out. It’s not as simple as taking any pet dog and turning it into an SD.

On a bigger scale, I find it really sad when someone has a highly treatable condition for which most people recover that instead of trying out treatment to recover, they jump into maintenance of disability. That’s not healthy. It’s like instead of getting a short term cast and physical therapy to completely recover from a broken leg, leaving the leg bent and broken and buying a super expensive wheelchair to use for the next 15 years. The super expensive wheelchair only makes sense if the cast and PT were actually tried and didn’t work.
 
I got mine ass a puppy and hired a service dog trainer to do one on one training. It was pretty spendy (about $3000) but the alternative was being on a waiting list for 2 years and paying out $15000. There was a much higher commitment from me for the training but it also let me bond with him along the way sooo....

Thank you for the numbers :) Obviously self-training (with or without a hired trainer) is significantly cheaper than getting one from a program.

What I was trying to say, "medical device" or not, I'm sure all of your all's SDs are also companions for you, are they not? :) (the answer is "yes", I'm reading in the handler lobby ;) )
 
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