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Service/Assistance or Emotional Support Animal Question

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ughhh, ahh....misunderstandings! ??

Of course there a plenty of invisible physical disabilities (hearing, allergy, diabetes, seizure, ....you name it). I didn't mean to imply otherwise. I think what I was trying to allude to was that people just are way more familiar with guide dogs - and "ESA"s. As I mentioned, most people don't know the difference between a SD and an ESA to begin with (neither do most fakers, actually...I constantly see SD, ESD and therapy dog being used interchangeably ...I want to facepalm so hard each time). So if they see a SD that's not an obvious guide dog, many will assume it's either an ESA or a psychiatric dog (ignorance is bliss...not) and mental illnesses still face tons of stigma to begin with with way too many people thinking that they aren't real.

That legally you don't have to disclose your disability, most don't know.

ETA I wouldn’t eat at a restaurant where they allowed dogs to pee and bark, service dog or otherwise. Regardless of whether the dog is a legit SD or not, there’s no obligation on staff to tolerate that kind of behaviour from a dog on their premises.

Of course not! Again, I didn't mean to imply this is a common occurrence among fake SDs (because, why would any business owner tolerate such things), but it's something that's surprisingly commonly brought up by opponents in discussion. There's a LOT of hate and mistrust against dogs as well as prejudice and classic ignorance. You'd be surprised how often you'd see the argument "If you're not blind/mobile impaired, and you're out and about, you obviously aren't sick enough to >really< need a SD. People are stupid. ?

No! I do not want to have to tell every business that I have PTSD. It is absolutely no one's business and that is protected by law and let's keep it that way!

No of course not! :) What I meant was, that only for the moment you buy your vest/sticker/whatever to provide some sort of identification. Like with ESAs for flying.

Not everytime you take your SD somewhere.

I mean, it is kinda ironic that ESAs require more documentation, yet have fewer laws. I totally get where this is coming from and why the laws exist. But it's still ironic.

Bottom-line: I'm completely on the same page as you guys :)

(Frankly, as a European, I feel a lot of these issues are being cause by the extreme restrictions towards pet dogs in the US - can't personally talk about Australia. In many countries in Europe, dogs are allowed in most public spaces: restaurants, stores, malls, ... and there hardly ever are any problems or people have issues with that, ever. Completely different mindset. This would alleviate the need for people feeling like they have to fake a SD, somewhat, but that's really a whole other discussion :) )
 
You'd be surprised how often you'd see the argument "If you're not blind/mobile impaired, and you're out and about, you obviously aren't sick enough to >really< need a SD.
Hehe, no, I wouldn’t be surprised. My assistant dog is a shih-tzu. He looks like a ‘fake Fifi’. So I get a lot of grief.

But I’ve let get go of the need to convince people what he does for me, or the infinite number of issues that haters want to raise with me.

They don’t have to like me having my dog with me, and I don’t need to invest energy into changing their mind!
 
No of course not! :) What I meant was, that only for the moment you buy your vest/sticker/whatever to provide some sort of identification. Like with ESAs for flyin

Most ethical vest makers do ask some questuons (normally the 3 normal queations) before providing you a vest. [ETA: To cut down on fakes buying their vests]. If they don't then they don't. You can make a vest yourself and many do. What then? See, so many loop holes here. And it were required to get one vest from one maker and show said maker proof, that's against the ADA. See issues here? That is providing my private medical info to someone that really, it's none of their business. Plus, making one vest maker to do this would also go against the no vest requirement in the ADA. More issues.

Again, way more ways to combat the faker issue without putting a burden (money or action) on the real teams out there.

And an ESA only needs a doctors letter for the dog to board the plane. It has zero to do with the vest. It doesn't even need a vest. Plus, all the letter has to say is its an ESA, required to be with you on the fight, sincerly Mr Doctor. So, no medical info is required there either. And the only reason they can require "proof" if you will (and the only reason that Delta banned pitbull service dogs - forget about ESAS who aren't even trained. Go after the highly trained group) is because they are governed by the ACAA. Not the ADA. So, all the rest on the ground is different then up in the air.


I mean, it is kinda ironic that ESAs require more documentation, yet have fewer laws

Because they do not have public access thus no need for a lot of the laws over service dogs. ESAs are not allowed in non-pet friendly public places, service dogs are. Whom are around the public. More laws make way more sense when you break it down.
 
And an ESA only needs a doctors letter for the dog to board the plane. It has zero to do with the vest. It doesn't even need a vest. Plus, all the letter has to say is its an ESA, required to be with you on the fight, sincerly Mr Doctor. So, no medical info is required their either.
Not anymore. Most airlines now have an official process, there's a form they provide, your doctor has to list your diagnosis by DSM code, and it can be up to a 48 hour turnaround for the airline to process the paperwork.

Airlines have gotten very proactive in the US, because of the last couple years' worth of people abusing the ESA privilege in order to take a shortcut towards getting their larger animals on-board, instead of crating or hiring pet transport, or traveling via other means.
 
Not anymore. Most airlines now have an official process, there's a form they provide, your doctor has to list your diagnosis by DSM code, and it can be up to a 48 hour turnaround for the airline to process the paperwork.

Airlines have gotten very proactive in the US, because of the last couple years' worth of people abusing the ESA privilege in order to take a shortcut towards getting their larger animals on-board, instead of crating or hiring pet transport, or traveling via other means.

Huh! I learn something everyday. Have yet to fly with Chopper. I do know it can't be with Delta! ?
 
Again, way more ways to combat the faker issue without putting a burden (money or action) on the real teams out there.

Good point!

Because they do not have public access thus no need for a lot of the laws over service dogs. ESAs are not allowed in non-pet friendly public places, service dogs are. Whom are around the public. More laws make way more sense when you break it down.

Hu? I know! :) What I was trying to say: more documentation (dr's letter, airline forms), but fewer permissions (not laws). My mind is mixing up words again, mea culpa.

And at least technically, since they do need to be prescribed, they also are assistance animals. But since they don't have the 'well-trained' requirement... they're really just pets with a little bit of added protection. I still find it ironic that they require more documentation - but, again, I get where it's coming from (also see your point above). However, you gotta be careful to not accidentally discredit people who "only" have an ESA. Because there is a burden put on them (documentation), but since an ESA needs to be prescribed, there usually is a legit reason for one. (now, give your ESA good obedience training and one task, which can be as much as a medication reminders, as far as I understand it?, and it qualifies for SD, no? Because: honor system)

I feel like I'm not making much sense today, maybe I should give up ?

Airlines have gotten very proactive in the US, because of the last couple years' worth of people abusing the ESA privilege in order to take a shortcut towards getting their larger animals on-board, instead of crating or hiring pet transport, or traveling via other means.

Or take their small Fifi out of their carrier during flight. I'm really glad that airlines have gotten more proactive in enforcing the regulations. Still a long way to go, tho...
 
SD knows vest off means play, best off means work...And so did the people I worked with lol. I would take his vest off on Fridays and let him run around and say hi...it was really pretty funny

I flew with southwest and they were awesome. Total non event. But it did freak sd out,even as well trained as he is. I cant imagine taking an untrained pet on a plane. That's how people get bitten

And I'm constantly amazed at the fakes who let their dogs poop and pee in stores and restaurants and such. WTH????
 
And at least technically, since they do need to be prescribed, they also are assistance animals. But since they don't have the 'well-trained' requirement... they're really just pets with a little bit of added protection

No. Yes what makes a service dog is its training but the big difference is service dogs do physical tasks to midigate a diagnosed disability. ESAs don't and just sit there to be petted.


However, you gotta be careful to not accidentally discredit people who "only" have an ESA. Because there is a burden put on them (documentation), but since an ESA needs to be prescribed, there usually is a legit reason for one.

Of course there is and ESAs are important in their own right and I am glad the US protects them under law and differenates between them and pets. Allow them in non-pet friendly housing (which pet friendly housing is usually more expensive where I live).


now, give your ESA good obedience training and one task, which can be as much as a medication reminders, as far as I understand it?, and it qualifies for SD, no?

No because that dog needs to be public access trained and have the training to behave correctly in public. Which was the bulk of our training. Task training is easy. Public access training not so much!
 
Then she added that I have to wait for the dog to reach four months of age.
If your dog is still a very super young puppy and is not yet trained to perform tasks to mitigate a disability, it’s not yet a service dog. It’s a service dog in training. Access will vary by state in the US. But if it’s already trained to perform its tasks, then it is a service dog.

One good resource for questions about the ADA and service dogs: Pacific ADA Center - ADA Resources
Another specific to broader protections offered in California beyond the ADA:
California Laws on Psychiatric Service Dogs and Emotional Support Animals in Public Places
This is a reliable resource: Service Dogs in Training | Public Access | Disability Task-training | American Disability Rights
Disabled owner-trainer public access allowed for the purpose of training. All third-party trainers must maintain CA business licensing. All guide, signal and service dogs must be leashed and wear the government identification tag issued by the county clerk, animal control department or other CA authorized agency.

Under CA law all must dogs in the state older than 4 months must be registered with the government. Service dogs and service dogs in training can apply for government issued identification at the time of licensing.

Source 2017: CA Civil § 54.1 (c)
 
If your dog is still a very super young puppy and is not yet trained to perform tasks to mitigate a disability, it’s not yet a service dog. It’s a service dog in training. Access will vary by state in the US. But if it’s already trained to perform its tasks, then it is a service dog.

I get this question a ton on youtube. I taught Fuffy (or my ESA) XYZ task. Can I call it a service dog and take it in public? Well, can Fluffy/ESA behave in public? Yes? Then yeah, knock yourself out! No? Then you need to train it to since its on the ADA (what we call public access training) and thus still a service dog in training and still covered by State law and not the ADA.
 
The service dog in training is tricky. How do you make a service dog that is reliable in public if you can't take it into public to practice being a service dog?

TRainee dogs are not recognized in my state, but there are many places you can go to train. Farmers markets are a great spot because there is so much going on that he had to ignore. Same with parades and festivals. My trainer had agreements with a couple mega stores and malls and restaurants so we could practice there. That was the nice part of hiring someone who knew what she was doing :laugh:

I never call SD a psychiatric or ptsd dog because early on they were considered ESAs and not "real" dogs. Plus it's just way easier to say alert dog be wise that explains his task
 
I get this question a ton on youtube. I taught Fuffy (or my ESA) XYZ task. Can I call it a service dog and take it in public? Well, can Fluffy/ESA behave in public? Yes? Then yeah, knock yourself out!
When people ask me, I first ask them, if they have a disability that substantially limits Major life activities? Those who are legit tend to not have issue with this, and those who are defrauding the system usually balk and give up trying to get me to help them.
An individual with a disability is defined by the ADA as a person who has a physical or mental impairment that substantially limits one or more major life activities, a person who has a history or record of such an impairment, or a person who is perceived by others as having such an impairment. A Guide to Disability Rights Laws
If someone does not met this criteria, then there is no point to discussing tasks and access. I had a neighbor who claimed his disability was he feels better with his pet dog and admitted to me point blank he was just buying an SD vest to defraud the system. (Glad I don’t live by him anymore.)

Those who actually might benefit from an SD generally need to start off knowing about the ADA, especially because someone needing a service dog could benefit from other accommodations and in some cases, other accommodations could replace the need for all the trouble and expense of an SD and the person can enjoy a pet dog.

Then from there, I would ask what tasks the dog is trained to provide. Amazing how many people think the task of “being cute and cuddly and it helps me panic less” qualifies. But yes, “Alerts to a medical condition” works and I have been asked, “how do they alert?” which can be a fair question.

Then from there, one can talk about public access.
The service dog in training is tricky. How do you make a service dog that is reliable in public if you can't take it into public to practice being a service dog?
You can actually do quite a lot through various training programs and exposures in places that allow pet dogs. Also, if one is polite and asks for access to train and SDiT - many places will be ok with it. Professional organizations (like guide dogs for the blind) take this approach. Working with a professional trainer helps a lot when going the owner trainer route. They have the relationships, experience, and outside objectivity to help with a lot of problems.
 
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