News Service dogs: do they really do any good?

[Gs172003]

Thank you all for your replies. I am seriously considering a service dog but money is a huge issue. One day maybe

 

[Stephernovas]

You’re totally misreading what I said and getting very defensive. That’s not what I’m sayin...

Not defensive, just honest in my opinion of it. If I misread, then please clarify. We are here to have an open discussion on this forum. I am growing a firm stance against others telling a sufferer what they should or shouldn't do to make themselves feel better though. Point being, another person cannot know an individual's life, or trauma well enough to make that decision for them, newbie or not.

 

[joeylittle]

I have beef with this..not just this comment, but this opinion in general. To me, that's like saying "oh, well just because someone says you have PTSD, doesn't really mean it's all THAT bad". How condescending and invalidating is that? This is so individual for everyone and I really don't think it's fair to judge.

I know that @EveHarrington responded, and you have asked in a subsequent post for clarification - I think I can clarify what is being said.

The thread started as a link to a discussion among psychiatrists about the pros and cons of psychiatric service dogs, from the lens of 'medical necessity'. In the US, for an individual to have a service dog, and all the access that goes with it, the dog needs to be a medical necessity - which is not the same as emotionally supportive. Medical necessity gets defined by needed tasks that the individual cannot safely perform by themselves.

This paragraph is good:

A psychiatric service animal (PSA) is a special type of SA that has been trained to perform tasks that assist individuals with disabilities to detect the onset of psychiatric episodes and lessen their effects. Tasks performed by these types of SAs may include: reminding the companion to take medications, providing safety checks or room searches, turning on lights for persons with anxiety or disorders, interrupting self-mutilation behaviors, anticipating epileptic seizures, and preventing impaired individuals from endangering themselves

taken from a published study on role conflicts for psych professionals.

And so, when a person is just diagnosed, probably neither they or their doctor have quite enough info to know whether that dog is a medical necessity.

By the same token, one of the first things any psych clinician in the US will do is ask the person if they have a pet - and if they don't they will suggest one. There's a lot of data backing up the real contribution an animal can make in someone's life. Decreases suicidal risk, provides routine/stability, can be a support system when there aren't other humans available...the emotional support animal concept legitimizes this in a very real way that I (personally) think is great.

On the other end of the spectrum, a psychiatric service dog can absolutely be justified and necessary...or, they can encourage an individual towards learned helplessness. But none of the psychs on the thread referenced have said that dogs aren't very, very good for emotional support, and that they don't help people. I completely agree that it comes down to the individual, and their specific needs. I also agree with @EveHarrington, that a lot of people diagnosed with PTSD think "service dog" without understanding what it actually means. They might want a support animal, actually, not a service dog.

A service dog, managed responsibly, doesn’t need to be a major imposition on anybody other than the handler. And the potential benefits to the sufferer are almost limitless. To me, it’s about promoting responsible service dog ownership and ensuring handlers have adequate training and support. Discouraging what, for me, has easily been the most effective treatment (not to mention the most cost effective) until a sufferer has sufficiently endured enough other treatment modalities? Can’t understand that approach at all.

I bolded the part I want to address...the thread referenced in the OP doesn't go into the concept of how many things a sufferer should have tried before they try a dog - it's not like meds, where you need to fail a certain number of trials sometimes before you can take the thing that really helps. Just that there are also pitfalls, and there's a paucity of available data on the topic.

I agree with you, everything should be on the table all at once. I wonder how much of this is a different countries thing as well. Truly, you would have had getting at minimum a pet suggested to you by a clinician here, pretty early on. I don't know enough about the designations where you are to know if the medical necessity thing applies the same way as it does in the US.

I should check it out on here: Link Removed

 

[joeylittle]

You have me on ignore. Please don’t un-ignore me just to argue with me. I’m putting you on ignore again as we have a history of not ever getting along and I do not wish to continue this drama. I say this here as I am unable to PM you. I tried to PM you but can’t because you have me on ignore.

Eve - there are multiple reasons why you might not be able to PM a member; I'm sure you're familiar with the options in the settings.

Members can set their access however they'd like. If you cannot reach someone, that's their business - it's not justification for you to air grievances out in the open. Does nothing good for the forum.

I'm asking you now to stop announcing when you have people on ignore, or telling them to ignore you. You want to ignore someone? Go right ahead. They want to ignore you, or not - that's up to them.

Use report if you need to bring something to our attention.

I'm temp-banning you for three days so you can process this.

 

[Sideways]

In the US, for an individual to have a service dog, and all the access that goes with it, the dog needs to be a medical necessity

I can see why people with ptsd might have a hard time when it comes to service dogs if ‘medical necessity’ is the standard. Certainly ‘medical necessity’ isn’t the requirement for a sufferer to access other treatment modalities. A lot of sufferers would potentially have a hard time arguing that any of their treatment is a medical necessity. For example, is CBT a ‘medical necessity’? Is EMDR?

Here in Aus, the standard for an Assistance Dog to get access rights is that they ‘alleviate’ the effects of a disability. That’s a much lower standard - you don’t need to evidence that your dog is ‘medically necessary’. The dog only has to be alleviating your disability.

Potentially that lower standard is only working because, to get disability law access rights, your dog also has to be accredited, and there’s a whole tonne of requirements that attach to accreditation in terms of dog/handler behaviours. You can’t just decide that your dog is alleviating your symptoms, slap a jacket on them and demand access rights.

In terms of which approach is serving the public interest more? I don’t know. But certainly the community here seems broadly supportive of the ‘alleviating your disability’ concept . I think there’s only been 2 or 3 times that someone has tried to argue that I don’t ‘medically require’ an assistance animal on the basis that I’m not going to die without my dog. People do seem to largely recognise that if an animal is significantly improving the quality of a disabled person’s life? That makes the grade. And that improvement to a sufferer’s quality of life, rather than “Is a dog medically necessary”, is what I think the decision to get a service dog should be based around (among other things, like ‘can this person care for a dog?’).

 

[Gs172003]

I know that @EveHarrington responded, and you have asked in a subsequent post for...

Thank you @joeylittle . I never realized how much my dogs would do for me until recently when I started bringing them in at night during the extreme cold. I have been more present since. I wrote a post about it a while back. I hope others will keep that kind of thing in mind when they are suffering even if a service animal is not in the cards.

 

[lostforgottensoul]

f*ck the haters, you don't know me.

OMG if I would put that on a neon sign to carry and blast it across the world I would!

The service dog community have organized groups. They name themselves and police the community. Those of us that put ourselves out on the internet (we have a tiny youtube channel about owner training and working a service dog that I plan to rename once I get my next service dog prospect) get nit picked to all hell! Well damn, Chopper jumped while blocking due to an ice machine dropping ice into a metal bucket making a super loud clanking sound today. Must make him a "fake" and me a "scammer". Keep in mind he and I were in a car accident a few weeks ago and we were at the gas station. A place we have been working on due to the pumps and the loud sounds by the pumps. God forbid an inperfect being would act inperfect!

But, putting myself out there and getting all that hatred helped me to become the very confident member of this service dog team. I had to stand up for myself against literally hundreds of people in one group. One after another and many at once. It's so bad that I had to set a MOD on my channel and I only have 422 subscribers and average 80 views on videos. A tiny channel. I'm getting that much hatred that I needed help to control it.

It's super sad is what it is.

I wrote out this long winded reply of how I struggled before service dog training and the functionality benefits while working a service dog (still in training) not to mention the benefits of ower training (which has a ton of benefits). But that quote really sums it all up. I couldn't live alone before, I couldn't go out of the house alone before, i was disoccoatong and moving from one place to another having no memory of it. That happened many times and was increasing in quanity the more I pushed myself. If someone spoke to me I refused to engage with them, looked away, tried to physically make myself smaller and hurried away. I froze once and had some sort of derealization or disoccisation but just not as deep? I remember it anyway. I started to freak out, in a frantic hysterical panic. I couldn't find my way out or to an exit. A guy grabed my arm (I think) and I freaked and ended up pissing my pants. Again, all before a service dog.

Now, with a service dog I can live alone, go to a store (or any place) alone (without a human I mean) without fear of disoccisation. I can watch him instead of making a millon exit plans in my head I can watch him instead and his body language. Just the physical barriar alone of him between me and others helps so much. He is trained to alert to and respond to disocciation but we haven't needed that in a while because his block and cover really keep panic down to a min. I still have massive anxiety but the panic isnt there so Im not disocciating.

He does way more tasks then I mention here but its not even worth going over them all as that quote really does say it all!

I don't consider him a crutch -- i think of him as a godsend....

Amen! As do I! And it's worth mentioning that though my opinion is people should to try other things first before jumping to a service dog, that's not the law. The ADA (currently) only requires that the handler have a dignosed disability and the dog to be trained to do tasks that midigate that disablity that you cannot do for yourself. So, though there are many opinions, they are only opinions. Not fact or law. And no one is their doctor nor are they in their life to see what they are needing the service dog for. So, though I hold that opinion, I never advise someone that they should try more things when asking about a service dog. I will, however, advise them other things they can do but I do not say "you shouldn't get a service dog". Only a doctor can tell someone that.

Also, it's not easy bringing a dog with you everywhere. It's like bringing a baby everywhere. So, those that don't gain massive benefit from a service dog likely won't keep using one. Just my take on it all.

 

[desiderata310]

OMG if I would put that on a neon sign to carry and blast it across the world I would!

Well... I don't think I would go THAT far. It's more of a subtle thing when I have to deal with the uninitiated. I also carry a 'business card' for the uninitiated. (when I can remember to carry them) that explains everything and has the law about SD's on one side. As a handler you become an advocate and educator about service animals for the whole community. Most of the time I give people the benefit of the doubt and err on the side of just them being uninitiated or having only been exposed to fake teams.

I had to make the decision that I can't worry about what people think about me. It's not been easy. I still don't share why I have Charlie. I don't explain DX. I let people see me and what I do and all the things I do despite this and let them draw their own conclusions about why he's with me. It usually works out better for me that way.

And yes, Charlie acts as my reality check. I hear noises which often that raise my anxiety to DEFCON 1 (hence why it would be great to have him at work)I hear things that translate (in my mind) as 'someone is coming up behind me', 'someone is in the house', etc. Now, instead of picking up a knife, and screaming into my house or calling the police to do a full check (which I have done on several occasions) I now check Charlie's reaction. This is a dog you can't hide from. If he's concerned, THEN I get concerned. If he does't blink at the sound, I know I can relax- it's coming from next door or outside or it's the house settling.

That has saved me a world of anxiety and allows me 'better' sleep. My brain has adjusted to being on complete alert for noise to simply being on alert for dog movement. (Charlie sleeps with me). And yes, he's a reality check in the middle of the night when I have nightmares or night terrors. It takes a great deal less time to pull back when there's a 90lb dog licking your hand or (bless him) standing on you staring down at you. It brings me out of that world immediately instead of fighting with myself to figure out where I am, dealing for hour with the panic attack, etc, I am more able to go back to sleep sooner and with less fuss.

The thing is, I want to eventually get to a place where I feel confident in my ability to navigate a grocery store, a shopping mall, an airport- without Charlie. I'm working on that. I don't want this to be a forever thing but I'm willing to continue using this method until it's no longer needed.

 

[lostforgottensoul]

The thing is, I want to eventually get to a place where I feel confident in my ability to navigate a grocery store, a shopping mall, an airport- without Charlie.

Yep, me as well. Though, I am thinking I will likely need a service dog for mobility forever and am ok with that now. I am working on not needing a service dog for PTSD. Though PTSD is the greater need of the two at the moment. Learned that before I got Chopper's xrays done and was thinking he wouldn't be able to do mobility work anymore (he can but this was before I knew he can). I wanted to salvage the ability to work him for PTSD. So, that need is still huge as the moment but always working other therapies to hopefully not need a service dog for psychiatric needs eventually.

ETD: In addition, it's worth mentioning that Chopping doesn't go to work with me currently as he is still in training but he is much needed at work. I am constantly internally freaking out and it takes everything I have to hide it but it's starting to show, a lot. I am afraid that I am closer to loosing my job due to this. So, even though I work without him, it doesn't mean he isn't needed at work. Many tend to tell me that because he doesn't go to work with me that I don't need a service dog and that isn't the case at all. He is just still in training. So, thought I would throw that in for whatever it's worth.

 

[Stephernovas]

I know that @EveHarrington responded, and you have asked in a subsequent post for...

learned helplessness can occur in many forms. It can also fall onto the medical professional themselves.

 

[Friday]

When doctors are prescribing pain meds or benzos, they know the risk of addiction & dependence that is attached, as well as the risk if such meds aren’t prescribed. (From shock and cardiac arrest, to slowed healing and suicide). Both from rigorous studies, and from their mentors & predecessors having prescribed these drugs full tilt boogie, or withheld them for various personal reasons, before those studies came out (and we didn’t have the decades of experience dealing with them). Knowing the risk allows them to make smart choices in patient healthcare. (Doesn’t mean everyone does make smart choices, but the data is there that allows them to make an informed choice.) Just like knowing the stats on surgical outcomes, aggressive vs cautious treatments, etc. allows them to recommend -or sign off on- the best treatment plan they can for someone.

Psychiatric Service Animals are a new thing in medicine. And almost nothing makes doctors more nervous than new things. Because they don’t know the risk attached. They don’t know the expected outcomes. That scares most doctors silly.

As patients, we only have to worry about ourselves. What works best for us.

Doctors have a whole lot of OTHER worries, on top of that one. No one wants to be the guy prescribing opiates to alcoholics (that was the “cure” for alcoholism for almost a century), or anti nausea pills to pregnant moms that cause massive birth defects... no matter how much patients are throwing their arms around them proclaiming how much better they feel & thank you thank you thank you!!! :inlove: There are literally over a thousand examples just like those 2. Every treatment (chemical, surgical, behavioral) known to man has had its OMFG :eek: examples of lives destroyed over choices doctors have made without evidence.

Seriously, new things? Scary as f*ck.

Conversely, there are just as many examples of new treatments that have revolutionized medicine. And nobody wants to be the guy who let their patient die of sepsis, because they didn’t do the appendectomy. Sure, that’s a bread and butter surgery now, but it was new once. Not so long ago, as a matter of fact... today’s retiring surgeons were med students during that controversy.

Psychiatric Service Dogs are new. Doctors are going to be concerned. Because that’s what doctors do, until it’s not new, and it’s a highly evidenced treatment.

 

[Stephernovas]

When doctors are prescribing pain meds or benzos, they know the risk of addiction & dependence that is a...

Agreed. People fear the unknown until a few brave souls show them it's okay, and then they do whatever testing on the topic to make themselves comfortable with the idea. Meanwhile, the individual and dog are doing amazing! Sometimes it takes a while for science to catch up to life.