News SGB PTSD Treatment Article

[anthony]

[DLMURL]http://www.eugenelipovmd.org[/DLMURL] is his official site with official sources linked for relevant areas of his work, to stop people reading second or third hand information.

 

[femaleveteran]

hmmmm....I am definitely interested. May just try to check in with this guy on the way to my vacation to AUS or on my way back from there. I might be able to take a few days and stop off there either coming or going and check this out. I am very interested in this sincce I did spend the last 2 hours trying to focus with no sleep after two nights and read this thread. My situation is pretty desperate at this point and if I have to spend a grand on it that's Nada daggone problem. Man I had no idea they were using Stellate Ganglion Blocking now for PTSD....I am still pretty amazed as it has been a treatment for pain for decades. My only issue with it is I like to have huge studies on things like this before I make a decision. Wish there was a nice 10-15 year long study with about ten thousand test subjects out there on this whole idea.

And go figure that the military would not try this....then they might actually have to admit that there meds and other wares do not work so well and they might have to put some of those big pharmaceutical contracts on the chopping blocks....bad for the lobbyists for Big Pharma and bad for the people who take their money to make sure programs like this are never heard about.

I am going to ask about it when I go to the larger VA hospital in Huntington for my surgical follow-up on Wednesday. But hey if I can get something like this then I will defintely make it a part of my vacation coming up. was already going to spend money for medical treatment I thought I could get better somewhere else anyway. Might as well take some of that money and just add this into it if possible.

the only nervous issue I have is that there is not a major study on it. But the Doctor sounds pretty interesting and honest and open and I could probably deal with him. I guess he seems to be the type of guy t o be truthful from what I have been reading. Hmmmmmmmmmm........been a long two and a half days but now I have somethng POSITIVE to stay up to think about.

thanks for the information. Appreciate it. Will let those of you know when and if this is something I do in the next couple of months. I am definitely a candidate for it because I have an official diagnosis of PTSd and chronic pain....although there is a chance my pain will not be anything like what it currently is right now in a month or so I still will always have chronic pain (or rather I should not be such a wimp....I will have some discomfort from my leg eventually...but not real pain)

Whatever the case i will always have some pain on some level both physically and emotionally but if this can alleviate the symptoms of either one of those areas...just give me enough of a lift so that I can bare down on a few things and all that then I am definitely in. I do not evevn know what I am saying right now .....other than thanks to anthony for telling me about this. Should have read through this whole site first before I went around griping about my PTSD and my physical pain in a whole new thread. I need to learn to really read through the articles here and see if I can find the help already written for these issues without just losing my head and going off venting right off the bat.

Thanks a million for the information though...definitely going to think about it then discuss it and then eventually in the next couple of months since I will be traveling (hopefully) anyway back and forth from here to there and back I can make a stop off at pretty much anywhere in the USA where they might be doing this. I think I would want to go to this Lipov guy as first choice though because he sounds like the most honest practitioner of this treatment. That is kind of a requirement for me when dealing with a doctor or anyone else for that matter is that if they do not know something, or how something works ettc...they should just tell me...but it sounds like in spite of not necessariloy knowing how it works and admitting to all the possible dangers of the treatment that he is pretty sure it can help people. I would just need to at least meet with him first before I made the decision..

Anyway again thanks for the information. I am such a knuckle head....there i was absolutely about to die last night and I should have spent that time taking my mind off both pain and triggers by finding this thread myself and taking a look at it...could have saved people from having to listen to my garbage. Anyway sorry for that part of it..

 

[bigTicket]

My sister had the Chicago Block (SGB block) done last week at Dr. Lipov's office. Her background is much different than most with PTSD, in that her PTSD stems from a near-deadly reaction to a diabetic medication she was (wrongly) prescribed to take. She didn't have diabetes and nearly died from hyponetremia. She survived but has been unable to support herself or work for 5 years. She may have had brain swelling during her reaction so that further complicates treatment. We have been to about 30 doctors ever since to treat her ailments and nothing has worked (therapy sessions haven't helped, typical PTSD treatment drugs make her worse). Given her complicated history and unknown brain trauma, Dr. Lipov immediately said she had an 80% success rate with the procedure (normally it is much, much higher). Unfortunately, the block did not give her the immediate relief we were hoping for. It has been over a week and she has not noticed any improvement in her sleep or anxiety levels.

I will say that Dr. Lipov and his staff are wonderful. He is very busy but he did a good job during the consultation listening to us and answering our questions. I would recommend his clinic to anybody because of that. The typical process works with a morning consultation and then the procedure in the afternoon. It is fairly easy procedure. The staff is wonderful and accomadating. They were all pulling for the procedure to work for my sister and they were somewhat surprised that it didn't, so I would say that the success rate is as high as advertised, just based on their reaction. If you have any specific questions about the experience feel free to ask and I will try to answer.

As for my sister, we are trying to find more specialists related to brain trauma and imaging so we can get smart about her treatment. She also did an ANSAR last year which tested her ANS system and that revealed Paradoxical Parasympathetic Syndrome (PPS). There may be something to that as well, and would explain why she has an opposite reaction to anti-depressants and anti-anxiety drugs, and also why the Chicago Block was not (immediately) effective. So we have a couple of other leads as well.

Thanks.

 

[anthony]

Thanks for your feedback BT... much appreciated. 80% success rate seems promising still... though saying that, that is in relation to pain I believe, not PTSD. I am certainly avidly watching results and further testing on this as time passes, and still optimistic this could be a real solution for all PTSD sufferers, pain or not.

I guess time will tell. Awesome feedback though, and really appreciative.

 

[Aj]

So I just wanted to fill everyone in:

I had my appointment with the Pain Management Specialist and brought in the articles earlier referred to. Here's what he had to say:
• he had never heard of this treatment
• the sources I brought were not medical journals and the use of a SGB to treat PTSD is medically and scientifically circumstantial
• he believed their needed to be trials done that were more reliable than a few promising results
• he did not believe the SGB would help my upper body pain

In the end he said he WOULD be willing to perform the "Chicago block" as it were, but that it would need to be scheduled. In all honesty, this meeting which I was hoping would reaffirm my enthusiasm for relief did the total opposite. It made me question everything, from "how can I be sure that my diagnosis is really accurate, that it's biological, etc." to "what am I risking." To make matters worse these have been the worst two weeks I can remember, suffering two very great personal tragedies and my girlfriend and I breaking up (anxiety related issues; big surprise).

All I know is even during my emotional relationship, the fight or flight feeling was overwhelming. All over that. At this point I am going to give it a little more time before I make my decision (and make sure it will be covered). But I have to consider that the worst personal outcome is this doesn't work and that my whole life (unless something better comes along) will be one endless run of "fight or flight" situations and the best is that I will have some semblance of control and normalcy again after over ten years.

I welcome the thoughts and opinions of the members on this forum; please share them. Thanks!

 

[anthony]

AJ... everything your physician has said is completely true about SGB for PTSD... there is really zero empirical data that its actually helping PTSD. People who have symptoms don't necessarily mean they have PTSD.. and can be pain related. The persons could of have TBI, which mimic PTSD symptoms... and the treatment has actually fixed that, not PTSD. In five years, I suspect we will know one way or another whether SGB is actually as valid as its founder has made it out to be for the treatment of PTSD, by itself.

Right now... I could only say that, like any treatment, it needs subjects, and more feedback... studies, etc... then we may have an idea whether its validity for PTSD is accurate or whether the claimant is just another fly by night want to be. A person saying they have PTSD or been diagnosed vs. validly ascertaining PTSD diagnosis via full testing, two very different things.

Basically... this physician saying these patients have PTSD and his treatment is affective, is only his word and the word of the patient... there is nothing to yet substantiate any of this, which has been mimicked through this entire conversation thus far.

Is it promising? Yes... is it empirical or accurate? Not even close. Lipov's initial claims where treating PTSD successfully in the high 90% range. Now it has fallen to 80%.

I would like to see studies performed on this myself with verified PTSD combat veterans, not students claiming they have PTSD, where many studies are done... students participating for $$$ within studies.

 

[Aj]

Well, I thought I should share this with all of you. I am scheduled to have my SGB done (Chicago block) on the 24th of this month. I just feel I have so much to gain and not much to lose. If this works, as I truly hope it will, it will be the greatest gift I could receive. If it doesn't, I will have gone on knowing that at least I tried. I am hoping to contact Dr. Lipov's office as to any specifics for the preparations to share with my doctor, should there be anything he has discovered that may be beneficial. I will of course keep you all updated with my progress, etc. as much as possible.

Special thanks to Kim A4 and anthony for their persistently helpful advice.

 

[ikop]

I did SGB in a local clinick , althought , i believed in it and wanted it to work for me - i had 0 results with the method - no relief at all .
I just went home after the injection and nothing happend ....

 

[IchBin]

I am about a week out from procedure in Chicago with Lipov. So far things are pretty good. I have had more vivid dreams than normal, some of which take me back to the ages when the abuse occurred in elementary school, and in which my my older mind is combined with my younger one. In these dreams things have been positive, as if I am searching for mastery over aspects of life from back then. I feel happier overall, and I feel more secure in my own body. I have slept very well, and thus far have had no nightmares or dreams related to my PTSD. In contrast, before the injection I was having 3 or 4 a week. I have noticed as well fewer physical signs of anxiety while in public and more confidence inter-personally - though I am a bit of a recluse so I can't honestly comment on this too much.

As I am in summer classes I have had the chance to observe my study habits and concentration - these have improved too. I find it a little easier to take command and plan situations out in advance and then complete them in a focused way.

Things like intrusive thoughts are better than they used to be, however, I was not cured overnight. I am still me, and I still have some things I need to work on in therapy. Speaking of therapy, I feel more comfortable with my therapist and less intimidated than I did previously. I am less nervous in our sessions and I feel like I have a better grasp of what I am there for. I don't know how long the injection continues to work or if it does continue to work, so I guess I'll just remain optimistic about any future improvements. I hope that this helps you guys, and I will keep you updated if this is of interest to you.

ib

 

[anthony]

Look forward to hearing about both your results AJ and IchBin... fingers crossed for you both in regards to helping with your PTSD symptoms.

 

[Srain]

I don't know, after reading through all of this I was remembering the time I was fortunate or unfortunate enough to have been drugged out of a psychic break where everything faded away for several years. I just didn't care but when it all came back I had lost who I was, no recollection of the woman in the mirror, the puffy cloud feeling was leaving, I tried therapy but I couldn't convey what was the matter and got a lot of bs therapy 101. I started to have the symptoms again and not really understanding what was going on and had nobody to talk to as I had set up a network of friends that had no idea who I really was. I had no idea who I really was.

Now this may be entirely different and I hope for everyone's sake it is. I don't know how you can treat PTSD issues if they are not presently symptomatic, Anthony mentioned this. I more than understand the great relief of not having to experience the torture of the symptoms. My concern is the trickling to a flood should they come back and there are no resources setup to stem the flow or to even ultimately understand the process. Once in the puffy cloud it's so easy to forget it all ever happened and who you were.

That's just my take.

Rain

 

[member1100]

Important also is to remember it will block the adrenaline in the physical body. It will not prevent lack of feeling "happy".
I think there are some differences in how the PTSD manifests itself from person to person.

Perhaps it's a good idea to have an adrenaline test if you hasitet before the SGB.