News SGB PTSD Treatment Article

[intothelight]

I honestly suspect, SGB will never be of a much good to complex childhood trauma that has resulted in PTSD, because SGB cannot undo a lifetime of irrational, neglect, abuse and basically, wrongful wiring on right and wrong, normal, not normal, etc etc. Military however; they are adults already, and complex / severe symptoms are experienced from combat, however; they don't have that irregular, wrongful wiring from childhood, which is why it would be more likely to show results with veterans vs. childhood trauma.

I kind of suspected this. But I thought that if PTSD symptoms could be reduced, it might make therapy more effective in cases of complex trauma. Hopefully there will be more studies in the future that cover a broad spectrum of subjects, and provide some definitive results.

 

[ikop]

I kind of suspected this. But I thought that if PTSD symptoms could be reduced, it might make therapy more effective in cases of complex trauma. Hopefully there will be more studies in the future that cover a broad spectrum of subjects, and provide some definitive results.

this treatment is not a treatment that erase memories or change you as a person that has beliefes,memories that comes from childhood, but , if it is efficient in your case it will reduce your backround anxiety and hyperarusual from day bay day normal situations!...

 

[trixie48]

I saw my psych yesterday. I really wanted to see his response to the SGB information. He had not heard of it, so I gave him the info I had printed off. He was very interested in a positive response kind of way. He had referred me to a psychiatrist for meds, so I told him I made that appt for a month out, because I want to try to get the SGB treatment before I get on meds. He has never used the term Complex trauma or C-PTSD. He says I have trauma on top of trauma on top of .... multi layered, which I assume is the same thing. My appt with the pain specialist is Monday......

 

[anthony]

Yes, I suspect that this will only "possibly" assist in lessening some symptoms, however; if you understand the complexity of complex trauma at the brain level, then one can also see how this may do nothing at all, because even though this shot has been given to lessen nerve endings that are sent from the brain, the problem with complex trauma is that this same scenario is not actually occurring the same as someone with adult trauma, because a complex trauma brain contains no "before" information that it has been trying to revert back to, instead it is using the same information before the shot, the same after, being at the behavioural and subconscious levels of the brain, not conscious itself.

This is why its often found that with complex trauma due to childhood, its not even the events themselves that really have created the affect of PTSD in the life, it is the relationship / lack thereof, neglect from primary caregivers, etc, that causes the dysfunction itself, not the trauma. A child's brain is extremely resilient and does not process information the same as an adult brain, because at childhood, you don't understand many of the complex emotions, you only understand the physical acts of neglect and abuse themselves, not guilt, shame, empathy, compassion, etc... a young child doesn't even know what they mean, instead, a person associates those emotions as they age and learn about them, back to the situation as memory, not as actual emotions felt at that time.

This is why complex trauma is so difficult and tricky. People constantly confuse later thinking and application of that knowledge backwards vs. actual knowledge and thoughts at that time itself. A 4 year old child does not know what guilt, empathy or compassion is. They only know physical actions and display a behavioural pattern in lieu of such complex emotions due to the failure to know what they are or understand such things, so behaviour is more important than thoughts.

Again, a child brain is extremely resilient to trauma and healing it... its not resilient however to the neglect and lack of love, trust or safety that is essential at those ages, not complex adulthood emotions.

 

[Powder]

Thank you, Anthony. This also helps me understand why I wasn't showing emotional pain at the time outwardly. A 5 year old doesn't know that she is feeling all those things in the same way a 15 year old might. Therefore, she is not going to cry each morning and say "I feel ____" because ____. In fact, this is what my T. has been training me to do. Apparently, being given too much unprocessed traumatic stuff at that age actually makes it more difficult to learn "normal" emotional recognition and labeling later on in life. I believe you have demonstrated that elsewhere in various posts. Even with adult trauma, we have to break it down and find the right emotion for the right sensation. The dissociation effectively creates walls that have to come down between experienced stimuli in the senses and the emotional responses.

Muse

 

[Kim A4]

I had complex long term childhood trauma (beginning on the day I was born for 21years, and and encompassing all types of abuse) with an ensuing exaggerated startle response. The Chicago Block SGB injection worked wonderfully for me.
I have never had any diagnosed social anxiety, and my sudden bouts of anxiety only surrounded a potential or actual trigger event (or being startled). I sense that ongoing childhood traumatic events can cause the same part of the brain to overproduce adrenaline, and I bet this is not uncommon among the chronically abused, either.

If I spent most of my childhood on "high alert" to future abuse, I did not need to understand why this was happening to me for it to be PTSD. Along with the accompanying obvious neglect, there was acute physical abuse, which was often unexpected and illogical, and I am sure these events started the early adrenaline over-production.....the problem was that the adrenaline kept running for 40 years after....and decades after a safe life was established with no abuses.
I bet as a child my insular cortex was overly diligent about keeping me in "fight or flight" to potentially save me from more abuse. During the course of 25 years of therapies post-abuse, I did do all the work to finally uderstand things as a child I could not have, and that certainly helped a great deal. But, at the end of the day, only the injection was able to quiet the startle-response and relegate activating trauma thoughts to the long-term, calmer memory center where they belonged. My simple definition of PTSD as I now understand it is indeed a brain malfunction (injury?) which is an over-stimulated survival response to a life-threat,..... and a survival response that got permanently "stuck" on high in the brain. For me, the injection turned off the switch and reset me to pre-trauma, no matter how complex or multiplied.

I can still retrieve (although with greater difficulty post SGB) my childhood memories and trauma sensations, but I do not have the accompanying instant elevated heart rate and somewhat "blinding" anxiety that would obscure my other sensory activities, typically making it very hard to focus on anything but the triggering circumstance. My point is, I do not think that complex childhood trauma should be ruled out for an ideal candidate for the SGB - since clearly I has success.

If a person's anxiety is coming from another type of event or action, or really anything that would be affecting a different part of the brain than the insular cortex, then no, I would not expect this treatment to work. Most of us know ourselves pretty well, and I think if you have PTSD you would know the patterns after long enough. For me, it was simple as I had no other anxiety issues and the triggers all seemed to boil down to a common virtual circumstances. I was never made anxious by attending or being in social situations, but trigger events were stronger if I was with others, due to the added issue of potentially being "seen" reacting to a seemingly benign circumstance (to others). Startle response was very high. I suppose that if anyone really wanted to check first, an MEG scan of the brain would show you the PTSD so you would know the injection would have a better chance. http://www.workplacebullying.org/2010/02/11/meg/

iKop - are you sure that your injection was done in the modified technique that Lipov uses? A "regular" SGB will not affect the part of the brain necessary to stop PTSD anxiety. I am curious to know that it was a "Chicago Block" you requested and received.

Trixie 48.....any news? I am crossing my fingers for you!

 

[ikop]

Kim a4
as far as i know there is no difference between the regular sgb and the technique that Lipov uses,
i researched it , and there are couple of places in the neck to get to the stellate ganglion , it can be done from level called "c7" or "c6" the effect should be the same , i even sent an email to lipov office , the only difference is that the c6 level considered to be more safe.
i cannot say for sure at what level my injection was done , but it was done at the right side, and it seems that i had the signs of good block . the eye droop , the warmth , etc.

i thought about why the injection did not worked for me and my conclusions are that

1) human body is not identical anatomiclly - so you cannot expect the same resolt from this injection
or
2) the injection may reduce some kind of anxiety that is not present in all ptsd types.
or
3)ptsd reactions can resolt from diffrent parts of the brain and the nervous system

4)i was in benzodiazepines withdrawal , and had withdrawal symptoms, maybe it affected the results...

i belive that the insular cortex is only a theory of lipov ,dont know how much science is behind it .

I am happy it worked for you , stick with it no metter what.

 

[Kim A4]

Thanks, ikop. I am sorry you did not have the results you had hoped for from your SGB attempt.

Unrelated, but of relevance, here is an article from today's (8/3/11) NYTimes about the ineffectiveness of anti-psychotic meds on vets with PTSD.....
http://www.nytimes.com/2011/08/03/health/research/03psych.html

 

[anthony]

This is not new or ground breaking, and such data has been under development for the past couple of years now, and published here some time ago when I reported that the leading experts have shifted focus away from anti-depressants and such atypical med regimes for PTSD treatment, because the effects only typically worsen the symptoms, not help them. Its a minority that SSRI's, SNRI's, mood stabilizers, etc, work on for PTSD specifically.

They are really shifting focus purely to older med class families that treat anxiety only, which as a result, removes the mood based depression and mood/s themselves, being the symptoms they are, not individual aspects that they have attempted to treat previously.

A lot of learning, a lot of implementation of good techniques and practice into your life, in combination with very few meds or a naturopathic treatment to remove anxiety (massage, etc), seems to be working far better.

 

[trixie48]

There was a new person in scheduling that scheduled me to see the Nurse Practitioner and not the doctor. So, I consulted with her and she didn't know anything about it. I requested a follow up consultation with the doctor (scheduled this coming Monday to get my questions answered). She then went and spoke with him - he was performing a procedure, and told her that yes, he does perform those blocks and will do it for me. I still insisted on a consultation with him before scheduling. Jeeze, is it just me, or are doctors sometimes blind that a patient needs to see them before they perform a procedure?? Even then, they will have to schedule an MRI first, so I would probably see him before the procedure anyway, but I don't even want to schedule the MRI until I talk to him. Long story short - I have another appointment on Monday.

 

[trixie48]

Saw the doctor this morning and scheduled for next Tuesday, followed by another procedure for the neck pain on Wednesday. I don't want to feel too optimistic, so I'll just try not to have any expectations and see what happens. I'll post next week. Thanks for all the advice and encouragement!

 

[acudoc]

Hi everyone. I'm new posting here. I just met with Dr Lipov. I am scheduled for the SGB / Chicago Block soon. Will let you know how it goes. Thanks to everyone for all the previous posts, it was alot of helpful information.