Hi Kim. Thanks for the information. I wasn't sure if it was in response to my post or not.....? I didn't intend to convey that I was trying to downplay or disregard the treatment, although I question almost any treatment that is recommended to me to ascertain if it is the right treatment for me. At any rate, no offense intended. I had read in an earlier comment that someone was interested in a PTSD subject that was NOT on meds already undergoing this procedure. That is what I was attempting to convey. Your posts and information have been tremendously helpful and hopeful! Thanks!
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News SGB PTSD Treatment Article
- Post starter emmat
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intothelight
Sponsor
Hi Kim,
I have seriously considered this treatment, but I do have one question. Even though it eliminates symptoms, how did it effect the issues such as "no sense of self", and "no sense of self-worth"?
Just curious.
Debbie
I have seriously considered this treatment, but I do have one question. Even though it eliminates symptoms, how did it effect the issues such as "no sense of self", and "no sense of self-worth"?
Just curious.
Debbie
Thanks Kim. I agree that the proposed treatment for the physical pain is not the same as the PTSD treatment, just that the injection (& my particular physical injury) is at the same location. So, I will be interested in how this doctor wants to proceed. I remembered that he wanted to perform an injection at the same location, but couldn't remember until I got my records what he was planning on injecting. Having to make a choice, I would opt for the PTSD procedure and deal with the physical pain. I'll keep you informed. Thanks for all the info & links!
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- #209
anthony
Founder
Agreed....
Yes, I believe the latest data I reviewed only had the death rate at 1 in 100,000, which was actually the normal anesthetic death rate due to anesthetic rejection / complications.
What I would like to see though from Lipov, is actual data on prior assessment of PTSD impairment, because right now, the procedure is being performed without any validation on the severity of actual PTSD being endured, and as previous discussion from members here, even rejection for those with complex / severe PTSD, or it not removing PTSD for those who paid for it when at the severe / complex spectrum.
So I would be quite interested in seeing data on severity vs. current procedure of just taking the word of the patients diagnosis of having PTSD, without any real professional analysis over a duration prior to the injection.
This is what Lipov is missing to start providing some real validation to this procedure for PTSD, beyond just treatment of pain who also suffer PTSD. If PTSD is mild, or even misdiagnosed, within that initial stage of being classified as "normal" suffering, I want to see data on this... because this is where all this lacks right now, thus lacks credibility going forward.
The only officially documented trials to my knowledge were on veterans who, through the Veteran's Admin. or Dept. of Defense were diagnosed with PTSD. Lipov is also now only treating veterans who qualify for his own study results, but I am unsure specifially as to the criteria in order to be accepted.
My understanding is that these were rather clear-cut or lasting PTSD combat victims, confirmed by military physicians, so I assume that the military would need to be consulted to see what their criteria has been for thier choices. I agree that it would be interesting to know the precise qualifying criteria for technical reasons, but for me, I am happy just to know that these people feel so much better after.
Perhaps it is the presence of cortical activity under MEG in the specific brain region where PTSD is seen for some patients (the new study may use this technology), perhaps it is based on patient symptom descriptions, with a tendency toward subjects without other complications, medically and psychologically. Once the new Navy study is completed, hopefully it will describe the criteria for patient choice, and how their PTSD was quantified.
To intothelight: I am so glad you brought this up!
I cannot speak for others, but if anything, the injection has immensely improved my sense of self and self worth. The elimination of the stigma and insecurities surrounding possible triggers and its accompanying social anxieties has given me a ton more confidence as a person over these last 4 months since the injection. In the past, due to my traumatic childhood abuses and neglect, I had a great deal of self-doubt and personal image issues, and post SGB I have become much more sure of my own positions on every subject and personal perspectives. I am so much less in doubt of my abilities being affected by trigger anxiety now. Additionally, I no longer have the terrible lasting guilt I used to feel if I made a mistake, even a small one. Perhaps my particular traumas had deeply affected my self-confidence and self-image but now I am free to be strong with no more post-decision anxiety and "second-guessing" of who I am and how much I have to offer. Self love is most definitely improved for me and I am so very pleased to be "here" now, and to be exactly who I am.
I am much more self-forgiving in general --- now being able to accept myself completely and knowing that my "brain injury" has now been healed and that I was suffering due to factors way beyond my intellectual control. With the lack of trauma memories invading my decision-making process, I can make decisions with true conviction and a very strong pride in "me" as a better, stronger individual. I notice these changes every day and I continue to be amazed daily at all the wonderful positive side-effects of having this treatment, especially in the areas of self worth and self confidence.
The injection will not change your personality directly, but I bet it will improve naturally as you settle in to a clearer, calmer view of all things. If you have ever seen the confidence and new desire to live fully in cancer patients who have gone to remission, I would compare it to that. It is a truly liberating and freeing state to have left PTSD at the side of the road, and to be able to walk forward lighter and less burdened. I am still "me", only new and improved. Hope that helps.
Any other "SGB-ers" care to comment on self-worth, post-injection?
My understanding is that these were rather clear-cut or lasting PTSD combat victims, confirmed by military physicians, so I assume that the military would need to be consulted to see what their criteria has been for thier choices. I agree that it would be interesting to know the precise qualifying criteria for technical reasons, but for me, I am happy just to know that these people feel so much better after.
Perhaps it is the presence of cortical activity under MEG in the specific brain region where PTSD is seen for some patients (the new study may use this technology), perhaps it is based on patient symptom descriptions, with a tendency toward subjects without other complications, medically and psychologically. Once the new Navy study is completed, hopefully it will describe the criteria for patient choice, and how their PTSD was quantified.
To intothelight: I am so glad you brought this up!
I cannot speak for others, but if anything, the injection has immensely improved my sense of self and self worth. The elimination of the stigma and insecurities surrounding possible triggers and its accompanying social anxieties has given me a ton more confidence as a person over these last 4 months since the injection. In the past, due to my traumatic childhood abuses and neglect, I had a great deal of self-doubt and personal image issues, and post SGB I have become much more sure of my own positions on every subject and personal perspectives. I am so much less in doubt of my abilities being affected by trigger anxiety now. Additionally, I no longer have the terrible lasting guilt I used to feel if I made a mistake, even a small one. Perhaps my particular traumas had deeply affected my self-confidence and self-image but now I am free to be strong with no more post-decision anxiety and "second-guessing" of who I am and how much I have to offer. Self love is most definitely improved for me and I am so very pleased to be "here" now, and to be exactly who I am.
I am much more self-forgiving in general --- now being able to accept myself completely and knowing that my "brain injury" has now been healed and that I was suffering due to factors way beyond my intellectual control. With the lack of trauma memories invading my decision-making process, I can make decisions with true conviction and a very strong pride in "me" as a better, stronger individual. I notice these changes every day and I continue to be amazed daily at all the wonderful positive side-effects of having this treatment, especially in the areas of self worth and self confidence.
The injection will not change your personality directly, but I bet it will improve naturally as you settle in to a clearer, calmer view of all things. If you have ever seen the confidence and new desire to live fully in cancer patients who have gone to remission, I would compare it to that. It is a truly liberating and freeing state to have left PTSD at the side of the road, and to be able to walk forward lighter and less burdened. I am still "me", only new and improved. Hope that helps.
Any other "SGB-ers" care to comment on self-worth, post-injection?
intothelight
Sponsor
Kim,
Thank you so much for your response. That is a huge help.
Debbie
Thank you so much for your response. That is a huge help.
Debbie
kima4 I did it the SGB and it did nothing to me. and when i say nothing i mean nothing .
very simmilar treatmeant is used in finland (called esb) for social blushing and social phobia ,
how can you say for sure that if affected your ptsd and not your social phobia ?
did you had an "exaggerated startle response" ?
how is it after the block ?
very simmilar treatmeant is used in finland (called esb) for social blushing and social phobia ,
how can you say for sure that if affected your ptsd and not your social phobia ?
did you had an "exaggerated startle response" ?
how is it after the block ?
I have an appointment today with my psycholigist and plan on talking to him about SGB. I am not sure that the psych community will be ready to embrace it, but I do want to know what his response is. I have an appt Mon with the pain specialist either way, so I'll keep ya'll posted.
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- #214
anthony
Founder
That's what's concerning me at present Kim... being that Lipov is focused on military only, which means, he could actually be treating specific members who have TBI + PTSD, or PTSD misdiagnosed as TBI or vice versa.
Maybe it is all spot on and fairly accurate. Too many maybes in the equation at present. I am waiting with anticipation to see more conclusive data and analysis in the coming year or two from Lipov and his team from such trials with veterans... which I also understand are easy for targeting PTSD, as we veterans are the largest collective group which come with documentation, compared to civilian standards and issues with disclosure vs. military is open knowledge within the medical sphere of Government agencies typically within most countries. Makes sense to target veterans specifically for the majority of testing they have performed against PTSD to date.
iKop - I get the impression from reading your responses on this, that you are more anti-SGB because it didn't work on you! Is that accurate?
The latest data I had seen had around an 80% success rate, which means 20% of people who have it, have little to no effect. Saying that though, even if this actually works for 60% of PTSD sufferers, that is the best success rate to date as a near instant fix for what has otherwise been a complex, emotionally painful, drawn out event. If it means 60% of PTSD sufferers globally don't require to experience that drawn out event, that has to be a bonus to a majority.
They say 70 - 80% success in 12 weeks for low symptom PTSD sufferers, but that narrows the margins immediately to barely meeting the criterion / misdiagnosed cases being effective for psychoanalytical treatment. There is still a gap, regardless which treatment you use, though SGB so far, is showing promise in an area at the severe end.
I honestly suspect, SGB will never be of a much good to complex childhood trauma that has resulted in PTSD, because SGB cannot undo a lifetime of irrational, neglect, abuse and basically, wrongful wiring on right and wrong, normal, not normal, etc etc. Military however; they are adults already, and complex / severe symptoms are experienced from combat, however; they don't have that irregular, wrongful wiring from childhood, which is why it would be more likely to show results with veterans vs. childhood trauma.
Adult trauma generally, I can see SGB being a possible real solution as a majority, but I cannot see it for complex childhood trauma, however; people must put themselves into it from that category to find out first. Even if it lessens some aspects for the most complex childhood cases, that has to be better than nothing. If it doesn't work, no harm done atleast.
Maybe it is all spot on and fairly accurate. Too many maybes in the equation at present. I am waiting with anticipation to see more conclusive data and analysis in the coming year or two from Lipov and his team from such trials with veterans... which I also understand are easy for targeting PTSD, as we veterans are the largest collective group which come with documentation, compared to civilian standards and issues with disclosure vs. military is open knowledge within the medical sphere of Government agencies typically within most countries. Makes sense to target veterans specifically for the majority of testing they have performed against PTSD to date.
iKop - I get the impression from reading your responses on this, that you are more anti-SGB because it didn't work on you! Is that accurate?
The latest data I had seen had around an 80% success rate, which means 20% of people who have it, have little to no effect. Saying that though, even if this actually works for 60% of PTSD sufferers, that is the best success rate to date as a near instant fix for what has otherwise been a complex, emotionally painful, drawn out event. If it means 60% of PTSD sufferers globally don't require to experience that drawn out event, that has to be a bonus to a majority.
They say 70 - 80% success in 12 weeks for low symptom PTSD sufferers, but that narrows the margins immediately to barely meeting the criterion / misdiagnosed cases being effective for psychoanalytical treatment. There is still a gap, regardless which treatment you use, though SGB so far, is showing promise in an area at the severe end.
I honestly suspect, SGB will never be of a much good to complex childhood trauma that has resulted in PTSD, because SGB cannot undo a lifetime of irrational, neglect, abuse and basically, wrongful wiring on right and wrong, normal, not normal, etc etc. Military however; they are adults already, and complex / severe symptoms are experienced from combat, however; they don't have that irregular, wrongful wiring from childhood, which is why it would be more likely to show results with veterans vs. childhood trauma.
Adult trauma generally, I can see SGB being a possible real solution as a majority, but I cannot see it for complex childhood trauma, however; people must put themselves into it from that category to find out first. Even if it lessens some aspects for the most complex childhood cases, that has to be better than nothing. If it doesn't work, no harm done atleast.
well , to be honest ,maybe in the subconscious level...
i put much hope in this , maybe to much , i felt sceptical from the begining , but kept pushing in order to get it , and after the shot , just felt so much disapointment.
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- #216
anthony
Founder
Atleast you tried it, so that is the positive, and it rules out another avenue for you specifically, allowing you to concentrate on the next avenue to follow that may work for you uniquely... as there is no one solution for everyone with PTSD, and it is quite specific and unique using therapy... thus why this medical treatment vs. psychological treatment option, could be a one size fits many approach.
This is why SGB has promise... its not discriminatory to the same degree as psychotherapy on a per patient level.
This is why SGB has promise... its not discriminatory to the same degree as psychotherapy on a per patient level.
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