Should the Person(s) Who Traumatized You Be Punished for What They Did?

[Auroch]

Damn thats a good question.

I used to want to administer "justice" to my father myself. I imagined myself beating him the way that he beat me for years.

Nowadays it wouldn't be very fair. He has full blown aids (Got it sometime after I never saw him again). People who have seen him recenetly say he's just a withered husk, in constant pain. My uncle guessed that I have at least 100 pounds on him now. I guess the universe tried to right itself at least a little bit for me. I can live with that.

Doesn't make it any better though, and I really had thought that it would. Kind of feels anticlimactic. I don't know whether it's because I didn't get to do it to him (Or at least had no part in it) or because it really doesn't have an effect. No advice from me here on whether this will make you feel better, but justice for the sake of justice is something ...

 

[MaryMary]

Hi everyone. I only joined a short time ago. This thread is amazing. The question of forgiveness has been in my mind a lot for years.

I had a lot of rage and anger towards my mother. She was abusive. And I am suffering and having to deal with the aftermath of her behavior and choices in life. For a long time all I felt was rage against her. Sometimes I think that was the only emotion I felt. I wanted her to suffer. I wanted revenge. I wanted her to hurt as much as I did.

I had so many people tell me just to forgive. That i was only hurting myself. I also had people ( including therapists) tell me to try and have a relationship with her, I cut off all contact in 2004. I genuinly believe that some of these people were really trying to help, and some had there own agendas and couldnt handle or believe what my mother did. They kept thinking that if i just talked to her we could work things out..but my mother is extremly narcassitic and I was and am only an object to her. I do not believe that she can ever see me as a human being and I am not going to hurt myself more by allowing her to abuse me ( she was abusing me up untill I cut off all contact)

Years ago I began searching and reading about forgiveness. I found many different definintions. To forgive a debt..it means you let the debt go and the person no longer owes you. In the Bible forgiveness..if someone genuinly repents and asks forgiveness you are to forgive them. Since my mother never even admits to any wrong doing, I do not feel that I can give this type of forgiveness.

I realized though that I was hanging on a lot . Wanting her to at least admit to me what she did I felt she owed me. i had dreams of confronting her and at least getting some type of validation even if she didnt repent.

I finally realized that I wanted something from her. So i worked on acceptance. Accepting that she would never admit to any wrong doing. It took a lot of work and time but when I finally accepted the reality..I felt a release ..I no longer felt connected to her by anger. I felt a freeness. Whan I could accept that reality I began to be able to look back at my past and memories and observe them. I began to see her side.

She was abused by her mother severly. I genuinly believe that she wanted a real family but had no idea how to go about it. I do ot believe that this is the life she really wanted but she knew nothing else..and when she had me ..well the only way she knew how to mother was the way she had learned. She is extremly damaged.

Now. I think she has suffered enough in this lifetime. When she dies I pray that G_d has mercy on her soul. I honestly dont want her to suffer anymore. I also pray for myself. In my pain and anger and lashing out I myself have hurt a lot of people. I pray that I recieve mercy too.

Thats where I am today..we'll see where I'm at in the future.

I'm sorry this got so long.

Mary

 

[Darkhorse]

Hi everyone

Ive come to a stage of in limbo to what i think about punishing those that hurt me.

To the person who murdered some else in my home, he got life in prison, i made sure of that, and felt a sense of justice to what he did to me too.

But to my mother, who was mental, emotionally and physically abusive, i used to hold alot of anger, and because i didnt take it out on anyone else, i took it out on myself.

To my older brother, he was transferring the abuse he was getting of my mum and his piers onto me.

To my brothers older friend who was 14 and i was 8, and was frequently sexually abusing me (penatrive sex), for over 3 years, i dont really know what to say or how i should feel, im kinda numb.

I had anger issues for a very long time, and self harmned as a way of venting my anger, not hurting anyone else but myself, because i didnt want to hurt anyone else.

See my brother when i was 17 i finally stopped the bullying by standing upto him, and since ive helped him through drug phycosis, and he has become a best friend and a brother and ive forgiven him for not knowing better at the time, and he has said sorry from his heart, so no , i dont wish for him to be punished.

My mum, she was a very sick woman with a sick past and started having kids at 17, she didnt know any better, she was just replaying how she was taught, and she was given very bad tools for parenthood, and thats the tools she used. Took me years of anger projected at myself, to finaly stop being angry at her, and decided to forgive her.

- this comes with a bitter taste in my mouth though, purely for the fact, she is in denial, and makes out to have been a perfect mum, and i often sit there listening to her give herself praise, and think to myself, - what a burden - not only to carry and try to give forgiveness, but to listen to her, deny all the pain she made me suffer and pretend like nothing ever happened. -

- i say to a friend sometimes, i want to say to her, ive forgiven you, but you have to admit at least to me, that what you did was wrong, maybe one day i will, but her punishment from me, is my absence, and rare visits, but my punishment still carrys on, because it is painful for someone to deny what they did to you, and pretend like it never happened.

As for my older brothers friend, i am really at loss on what to think, see when you have a home that to you when 8 and is a deppressing, scarey, frightneing place to be, not knowing whats coming next. No male role model, and the two in the home family are bullys too you. And then an outsider comes in, protects you at times from your brother, and takes you away from your mother, and has a sort of look after you approach, in all honesty, he became a carer to me in a way, and protector, and someone that i thought genuinely cared about me.

When groomed into sex, i was not resistant and was fairly reseptive, i had mixed emotions, only knew that being with him and doing what he wanted for me to be around him was better than being at home, with the bullys that made my life then hell.

I can see what im writing, i know i should be shouting that he should be punished, but im being honest, im not, and not really sure why.

The start of this year after ten or more years of not seing my brothers older friend, i bumped into him in a pub, i was mixed up in what to say or do, but at that point, i decided that i need to let it go, had small talk and walked out the pub.

so should he be punished, i dont know, but i dont seem to have anger about it, and to be honest, as a child i remember being more happy with him and around him, than anybody else, cause he seemned to care about me and give me attention and some sort of love.

As an adult, i know what happened to me was wrong, and messed me up in so many diffrent ways its untrue, but even for those, i cant honestly bring myself to say he ought to be punished. He was 14 when that started when i was 8.

Im afraid of the replys and critism i think i will get, in no form or way do i say any abuse is ok, i dont, but im just expressing how i felt about him in paricular then, and my reaction to it now. Im just numb.

 

[Darkhorse]

Mary

I can so relate to the part you put in your post, the denial your mother has, exactly the same as mine.

And the acceptance you have to find, i do agree, accepting something u will never get from someone, even though it is fulldeserved, it will never come. You feel the freeness to a certain degree in acceptance, i have felt that too, but find it extremly hard to bite my toungue when she sings her own praises to me.

Its makes my forgiveness harder to fully give and everytime she says how great she was, its eats at my forgiveness i trying really hard to give.

Same with my mother had a really sick upbringing, so she used what she had. I can see where it all come from. But in my heart if she took my hand after me telling her how hurt and betrayed and scared she made me, and how worthless, and she was truly sorry, i would feel my forgiveness would be more complete, and that last little edge of stubborness not to give it wholeheartedly would pass.

Thank you for your post.

 

[MaryMary]

Darkhorse..wow your mom sounds so much like mine!!.My mother makes herself out to be this wonderful mother whos trying so so hard to deal with a mean, ungrateful, crazy daughter..blah. She is a martyr . She would provoke and provoke me when we were alone untill i snapped and then she would run into her room and lock the door cying that I was abusing her. She would call friends and family members crying and sometimes hand me the phone and the person on the other line would tell me how lucky i am to have such a wonderful mother and I should be nicer to her ?????ugg.

And yes it makes it that much harder to to let go and accept. For years I thought that if she would just admit a little. I could move on..but I realized that by thinking that ( for me at least) I was still giving her control over my life..if I wait for her to change..well...I cannot control her, and if I wait well..in a way I am saying if you do something I can do something..instead of taking complete control of my own emotions.my reactions..

If I remain dependant on her actions for me to do something then I am giving her control..when I looked at it that way and worked on accepting that I will never get anything from her. Well I felt more in control of me. It was not easy!!! at all..and I went through a long grieving process in accepting that...like accepting someones death..that you will never see them again or hear there voice..sigh....its sad..and hard...and like accepting someones death..it doesnt mean I dont still feel sad, or hurt when I think about the loss...

Also like grieving , its a very personal process you have to find what works for you..

I hope its OK to give you a hug:Hug_emoticon:form one child of a crazy mother to another ...

 

[MaryMary]

Ok this may sound weird..but I reread my post and realized that I called labeled my mother at the end. Crazy mother. I'm not going to edit it. But I realized that in another post I asked someone to be respectful and not name call even if they did not agree with the person..and then I go and do it lol..

Decribing my mothers actions are one thing but labeling her as crazy is namecalling..I think that that labeling people and calling them names is abusive behavior..she behaved crazily, but she is an injured person and I think she derserves repect as a human being..not be called names...

I was raised in a punative enviornment. I am learning how to be respectful. And as I do I am gaining more respect for myself, by trying hard not to disprespect myself by being mean and abusive even if I am angry..not perfect and never will be..but I just wanted to add this..

mary

 

[Darkhorse]

Thanks mary

Its certainly is twisted, to be told you are the bad one, just so they can deflect off themselves, and all your really doing is telling the truth.

I am at odds to which path i should take, let her live in her denial and not face reality,or confront to have retribution for myself, as i have approached before., saying ' i want to talk about the past' , to have a reply of hanging up the phone.,,

she just wont face it, or when i confronted her about whipping me with a rod rest metal bar,causeing welps up legs and backs which is also backed up by social service, the school ( being pulled out in P.E and taken to the nurses office then the headmasters )and police facts,... Its total denial that it ever happened, and she would storm off and get away from the words im saying.

It seems alien to me, for someone to be like that, if i done wrong, im normally the first to put up my hands and try to make amends, besides i treat my siblings with such gentleness and respect and friends, that i couldnt imagine doing a wrong that bad.

This transferance on parent to child, child becomes parent , to do the same to there child, seems to have been going on for a very long time in my family. Sadly that has made both me and my brothers choice in our lives not to have children at all.

can the perpetrator really convince themselves they done no wrong? Can they really believe it?

 

[MaryMary]

Darkhorse, This is a very interesting coversation.."can the perpetrator really convince themselves they done no wrong? Can they really believe it?"

Honestlly I dont know. I cannot speak for anyone else. What I do know is that for me..if I wait for them to change before I do..I am giving them control. I am in the process of working on my own "stuff"' the things i can control in my life, which is me! My reactions.

both of my parents are very narcassitic, with very little to no insight into themselves. I can't make them have insight. I cannot control them. I spent years trying. At some level I think they know somthing may not be right. But they have lied and deluded themselves so long.....that it has become thier truth. I feel free now in that I do not have to wait for them to acknowledge what they have done. I accept that I have no control over another human being. Regardless of whether I forgive or not..that alone has been powerful in my life..acceptance. It doesnt mean I condone the behavior but it is what it is. For me its like trying to get a rock to acknoledge me. Its exhausting for me and doesnt effect the rock at all.

Whether they believe they have done wrong or not ...I choose to longer let that affect me..I'm tired. Ive been yelling at rocks for 30 years lol. all that happened is I drained myself ..and the rocks are unchanged..

I'm 34 now. I stopped yelling at the rocks 4 years ago and began to work on healing myself..I'm too tired and worn out to take up that hopeless batttle anymore. I just want to live my life..

 

[TLight]

Geez,
every time I read this thread title, a new thought occurs.

Today, I feel like I wish I could torture him as brutally as I was and am continuing to be tortured. Today I want to torture him badly.
But that is just a passing emotion............What I really want is to forget about him.............Forgiveness??????? I suppose I must.

 

[Darkhorse]

I think the individual in denial, must have a thought in there thats says ' you did do this' ,,,, but counteracts that by a thought excusing it for this reason and that, and coming to a logical conculsion in there heads, that it is not something they would 'normally' do, therefore the didnt do it. Also admitting truely to themselves or to another might just be beyond themselves cause they try there hardest to avoid looking inwards, or being 'insightful'.

The only thing i can say about anger , and having anger over another, is what it done to me.

Although anger is a healthy thing to have in moderation, with a healthy outlet,,,,, i found the build up in me of anger, lead me into unhealthy thinking, obbsessional thinking leading to ocd in years of it,,,,, they say like attracts like,,,, well if your a very angry person all the time and damaged and unbalanced,, then u attract those people also.

I hung around with very angry people, got in bad situations, and obbsessed over my revenge all the time, in the end, because that sort of thinking and behavour attracted me to these people, it took meeting the one physco to far, to realise this wasnt me,, or what i wanted.

After that, i knew i had to let go off my anger, it made me ill, it nearly cost me my life, it made me bitter.

Since i learnt the hard way about what anger can do to a person, i let go off alot of things and in time, i learnt to show some forgiveness, if not that just,,,, no feeling at all.

I would say this has worked for me, but i may have gone to far the other way and become very passive, but hiding my anger better, i only know this as my burst of anger even surprise and scare me a little.

So still on the journey on trying to get that pendulum clock to swing back to the center, maybe anger outlet like running , will be good.

I spent many years thinking and planning for revenge, it only made me ill, cause my hurt at the time in my own head and projections of revenge,,,, never affected them, they never even knew.

 

[vietnam2nd]

it would be imposible to punish the people who give me ptsd. mine came from the vietnam war. i would have to punish the late president johnson and congress. their is no way that i can do that. it would not be healthy for me to fight the country that i love and fought for in a war we had no business being in.

 

[tardis]

The bullies who physically assaulted and raped me, I would like to see charged and made to face their actions. Not only for myself, but for any other potential victims. They were young at the time, but perhaps they are now abusing their wives, children or others, and they shouldn't be permitted to get away with it all.