Sludge's "everything You Wanted To Know About Your Meds" Thread

[Sludge]

I found this, The Best Electronic Cigarette Guide For 2014 Dead Link Removed seems to be some good info on whats what......

I think I may have found the answer to why is so hard for us with the Beast to quit smoking. After hours of searching nicotine on line, I found that nicotine releaces adrenalin into our systems......So it's a double hook for us junkies, adrenalin and nicotine. I have been trying to quit since 83...I did the gum, patches and lozenges, lots of $$$ spent and I am still hooked.

Also don't for get that the Proposed FDA Regulations on E-Cigarettes are due this month.....Go to http://casaa.org/Home_Page.php to learn more.......

J R

Just be careful with any e-cig "information" you find online ODG! As of right now, there is next to no valid research, none of the ingredients are approved for use for inhalation. For instance, the site you linked to looks legit, but a bit of searching and you find out it is a blog, which is generally not a valid source for information.

Currently, There are about 15 valid studies of e-cigs and vaporizer/cartomizer use in process by legitimate scientific researchers. None of them are anywhere near complete. As for the FDA regs, just remember that Thalidomide was FDA approved too...

 

[Sludge]

When first diagnosed the wonderful va put me on trazadone, paxil, and tegretol. Screwed me up even more, I felt like a zombie. Got some sleep though.

Hey there Atilla! Here is the skinny on your pill list:

Trazadone is a serotonin neuromodulator. While it is used as a generalized antidepressant, serotonin modulation in combat vets is a slippery slope. Honestly, I could find little of valid information on its use for combat PTSD. I will note that it should NOT have been prescribed along with Paxil and particularly Tegratol. The side effects alone of that mix would kill a medium sized dog.
A really good, valid reference for laymen on drugs is from the National Institutes for Health. Here is the site page for trazadone.
I am guessing they had you on that stuff to get you sleeping better. This is what is known as "off label usage" which is frowned upon severely by everyone except medical doctors. Running ten miles a day is safer, though as brain drugs go, trazadone is one of the least risky. After some digging, I found this study on the use of the drug for PTSD. If you would like to read the full article please let me know, I can get and post a PDF version in about 72 hours for you for free. I can tell you this, the validity of the findings is questionable because as with most drug studies the subject sample size is scientifically invalid (too few subjects) and depends heavily on statistical models. Additionally it did not allow PTSD subjects with or with a history of substance abuse which most of us have. If it were me I would be yelling at my Doc about this drug. The side effects list causes beyond sleepiness are what we experience without any drugs on a daily basis.

Now for Paxil. (Note, I hate Paxil all most as much as I hate MDs that give it to vets.) Paxil is nasty shit. The side effects pretty much make any perceived benefits nil in my opinion, particularly for combat vets. You have to remember that most MDs are diagnosing and treating us with a check list that is in every single psychology textbook on the planet and was not designed for military PTSDers. Now Paxil is one of the two drugs that is recognized and certified by the FDA for combat PTSD treatment. The other is sertraline, commonly called Zoloft. However it should be noted that the FDA only utilized studies done by the drug manufacturer as the basis for this decision and far too many independent, scientifically valid studies have been done that all but prove Paxil is crap for vets, and likely to make us drink more booze and turn into rage monsters more often. It would be an exercise in futility for me to post more links on the subject of this drug and its validity for combat vets as all one needs to do is type "Paxil + military + PTSD" into Google Scholar and then spend the next ten hours reading about this stuff. Also my own personal bias against the drug is based on the FACT that money made it popular to prescribe, not valid data. Just google "paxil scandal" for fun stories on that FDA fiasco! It was only a 3 billion dollar fine the FDA issued, but they never got around to changing their own stance on it.

As for tegretol, this is one I have actual experience with, however I am an epileptic. Tegretol is an anti-spasmolytic and unless you actually have myoclonic seizures, you should not be taking the stuff. It is potent enough that it can actually cause damage that will turn you into an epileptic. MDs love to prescribe it to us PTSDers because of a related, epilepsy-like condition with the hysterically funny nam "PNES". Yup. "penis". That is, a Psychogenic Non- Epileptic Seizure. What that mouthful translates to is basically, an anxiety attack so severe the brain short circuits epilepsy style. Current studies on the matter reveal that likely upwards of 80 percent of epileptics are not actually epileptics, they are PNES-heads. (See what I did there? Laugh, damnit. I'm all messed up on pills!) Anyway, the use of the drug for PTSD treatment is off-label usage and in my that should be against the law. While some anti-spasmolytics DO help with PNES symptoms caused by PTSD, there isn't much data available as MDs in the US often have never heard of the damned thing. The bulk of the real, valid and useful combat PTSD research comes from India where they have valid sample sizes of combat veterans to work with. Not worth linking this one either as Google Scholar will give you access to everything you never wanted to know about this pill. I can tell you this, the side effects list should just read "Warning: may cause the zombie shuffle and drooling."

So, in short, this particular mix of drugs is nasty and makes absolutely no sense. Not sure why a Doc would feed you that shit for PTSD. It is particularly scary in that that mix of drugs WILL cause more damage than it will treat. This trio is a great example of what happens when a Doc just reads a check list and is actually thinking about playing golf. If I were on that mix, I would find a different Doctor, preferably one that doesn't have his head so far up his ass he can see the light out his own nostrils...

 

[OldDoorGunner]

Thanks Sludge for you taking the time on this. I know nothing about E-Cigs, I did know about the antifreeze part,:devil: I did not think it was a good idea to use that. You are correct on the FDA, if enought $$$$ changes hands, shit will get approved.....

J R

 

[OldDoorGunner]

"Warning: may cause the zombie shuffle and drooling." Now I liked that!!!:D:D:D:ROFLMAO::ROFLMAO::ROFLMAO:

J R

 

[Sludge]

Currently on prazosin (4mg), sertraline(100mg), and quetiapine (50mg) for bad days though i only need half(25mg) and I'm on my ass. My doc said to "use caution" when using machinery (I'm a cabinet maker) and driving. Ridiculous. She needs to be telling people to NOT use machinery or vehicles. That seroquel stuff is no joke.

Hey there Fiver. Prazosin is one of my "peeve" drugs. It is actually a blood pressure lowering medication and is only approved in the US for that purpose. However, it has been proven effective as a sleep aid for combat PTSDers thanks to a large number of valid studies in India. Basically it works because it lowers your blood pressure enough your brain goes into self preservation mode due to lack of oxygen. While it does help sleep, I don't like the why or how of it. As a drunk and heavy smoker when I was on the stuff, I already had problems with not enough oxygen to the brain, and as a currently really physically healthy 40ish guy with the blood tests and cardiac results to prove I am in better shape than most 18 year old males in perfect health, I feel this drug was a bad choice for me. Now, it does work. Shit, it worked great for me. I slept like the dead to the point my wife took to poking me with a stick to make sure I was breathing...
It was validly proven to reduce nightmares and night terrors AND make you sleep like a rock however. The problem is it may require an increased dosage over time as a tolerance will develop. If you are a smoker and a drinker, think fifty times before having a bender while on this drug. The odds of falling so far asleep your body just stops pumping is very, very high. I do wish the FDA would pull their heads out of their asses on this one. Like most drugs it does not work for everyone, but the 10,000 combat vet subject pools used in the studies make my opinion and the FDA just plain wrong. If you have heart or blood pressure issues, make sure you talk with your Doc in detail. And, get some PT in regularly. This Link Removedhas the complete research citation list and unlike these dumbshit money grubbers here in the States, you can read most if not all of them for free with a simple Google Scholar Search.

Sertraline/Zoloft is damn good stuff for PTSDers. The downside is the dosage MUST be increased and decreased over time to control the tolerance that builds up. Unless your Doc is tracking blood levels and changing your dosage every 90 days, after three months on the stuff you might as well just eat Gummi Bears- they will have the same effect. I was up to 500mg per day, when the Doc took me off of it. This varies depending on metabolism and body weight, alcohol usage, pot smoking, and metabolism. If you drink, you are just pissing the Zoloft out as it readily bonds to ethanol metabolites instead of doing it's job. If you smoke pot, why the hell are you taking pills? There is quite a bit of valid evidence pot is the only superior short term drug therapy for combat related PTSD right now. The difference is Zoloft's long term effects are well known and minimal. Pot's long term effects are equally well known in scientific circles and are actually detrimental to PTSDers after just a few months of use. So in short, if you have combat PTSD, you should be on Zoloft, but it must be monitored carefully by a Doc as it has limited usefulness long term. Ideally they would increase your dose and decrease your dose rhythmically over the years, otherwise it quits working. this is another case where I won't bother posting links or citations as this drug is well known and commonly used and valid data is readily available everywhere.

Now to be the harbinger of bad news. Quetiapine is bad shit. Worse than Paxil in my opinion. Search for it on here, I vaguely remember having a ten page rant on the nastiness of this garbage a while back. (Vaguely because I just took my doses of seizure pills and a cup of coffee so I'm flying in biochemistry ultra geek mode right now.) They also call this shit seroquel. It is known for turning one into an emotional zombie with heart trouble and obesity. Yup. It makes you fat and high risk for cardiac arrest, but the good news is you won't be able to feel anything that will make you care.

This is the study that is the basis for the off label usage of quetiapine treatments for PTSDers. It is complete and utter garbage. It is bad science and uses statistically invalid subject pools. It does not take into consideration the other prescriptions and substance abuse common among military PTSDers. I cannot stress how bad the science is here. Shit, to even call it science is an insult to scientists. This drug is a common antipsychotic which works wonders for psychotics. However, as a combat PTSDer, you are not and cannot be a psychotic. PTSD is a generalized anxiety disorder. Combat/Military PTSD is a specialized anxiety disorder that is a combination of traditional PTSD and standardized military indoctrination. While a PTSDer can have psychotic episodes, so can "normals" and domestic dogs...
The useage is off label bullshit based on quackery...and that IS a valid, fact based opinion. The US DoVA funded quite a few studies hoping this would be the miracle drug to cure us all. In reality all it does is keep us doped up and less dangerous and has proven to have little or no value as a PTSD treatment. The side effect make you sleep really well in most cases, but it also pulls the lead out of your pencil and tends to turn you into a depressed mess that really craves a drink. This is an SSRI (selective serotonin reuptake inhibitor) that is anything but selective. It is effectively an anti-happy drug. It pretty much all but shuts down the serotonin neurotransmitter circuits in your brain which makes you feel "flat" and "blank" and dead inside. The good news is it is pretty hard for the beast to get loose when the labyrinth he's locked in has been caved in at every turn by bunker busters. The bad news is you can pretty much kiss the bulk of the "good" emotions you want and need goodbye also.
The sad news is it works really well for a lot of vets. It is also chemo dependency forming, which means if you are on it for a long time it becomes necessary for you to function. Think heroine addiction. Or Methamphetamines. Bad shit, but it does work for some. I just wish MDs would quit treating us PTSDers like nutjobs and more like the programmed high alert machines we actually are.

 

[Sludge]

Sludge,

I've been dieing trying to find the answer to this. Don't know if it is of your realm but here goes. I smoked three packs of cigarettes a day before discovering e-cigarettes. I do not know the nicotine delivery of a cigarette, but I now consume about one ounce of liquid containing 2.1% nicotine per three days.

Has my nicotine consumption become greater or lesser?

Thanks,

Sarg

Good question. Percentages on labels are often inaccurate. I buy my made in the USA juice locally and they sell it by mg/ml concetrations. 2.1% sounds crazy high and dangerous to me. Percentage is based on volume, not concentration. I use the 18 mg/ml concentration and am getting ready to shift down to 15.

What volume bottle of juice do you buy Sarge? I can calculate out the nicotine concentration from that.

 

[Sludge]

Thanks Sludge for you taking the time on this. I know nothing about E-Cigs, I did know about the antifreeze part,:devil: I did not think it was a good idea to use that. You are correct on the FDA, if enought $$$$ changes hands, shit will get approved.....

J R

I love my vaporizer. I really do. I like to be able to sit in the tub reading a text book and puffing on my custom tailored juice mix. I get them to make me up some that tastes EXACTLY like my personal whiskey cavendish-virgina burley molasses honey pipe tobacco blend. I hate the fact that I know enough chemistry to realize the stuff isn't much better than smokes, but I use less juice and get less nasty crap than I do from two packs and a pipe per day. Please note I will never give up my pipe tobacco. I'll just grow gills and breathe like a fish when my lungs rot out...

 

[Sludge]

Over here there are warnings about meds on the package.
What nobody tells you is about the half life of meds.

Some last 18 hours. Bromazepam does.
When causing an accident whilst on those meds you lose your insurance.

Laws diffee per country but worth to look up in individual cases.

I agree one hundred percent. Truth is I tend to trust European sources on drugs more than I do the USFDA. I find some oddities with some of the Euro way of thinking on drugs, but they tend to have a stricter vetting procedure than these money hungry cowboys on this side of the pond.
Another thing everyone everywhere appears to skip is proper drug storage. Most of us on here should be keeping our pills in the fridge, in a plastic zipper bag, with a desiccant pack. True story.

I wont bore you with the chemistry geek details, but all drugs shelf and half lives are based on a 20C 30% humidity storage. Anything over that and the fillers and adjuncts tend to react with atmospheric water, oxygen, and carbon dioxide and effectively destroy the drugs.

 

[Sludge]

Oh by the way, I forgot my disclaimer:
I am NOT a medical professional.
I am NOT qualified to provide anything beyond my opinion and what I believe are valid facts.
I DO have a nearly complete master's degree in Biochemistry, a B.S. in Biology with a chemistry minor, and a couple of other B.S.s in engineering related fields.
I DO NOT claim to be an expert at anything but finding and interpreting information.
I DO claim to have a scientific bullshit detector and the skills to get the valid data to back that claim up.o_O
I DO encourage you to never trust a Medical Doctor of any flavor, and drive them insane with lots of questions.
I DO NOT use or trust wikipedia, Web MD, or anything endorsed by that f*cktard, Dr. Oz.
I DO NOT try to mislead or misinform, and pray that if I make an error someone calls me out on it. Just make sure you have valid data citations ready to back it up! Because I am like perfect and infallible and junk... ;)
I DO recommend that you use Google Scholar when doing searches on meds and treatments.
I DO recommend you feel free to message me if you need science geek journal speak translated to plain english anytime you are doing research on your own.

 

[OldDoorGunner]

I love my vaporizer. I really do. I like to be able to sit in the tub reading a text book and puffing on my custom tailored juice mix. I get them to make me up some that tastes EXACTLY like my personal whiskey cavendish-virgina burley molasses honey pipe tobacco blend. I hate the fact that I know enough chemistry to realize the stuff isn't much better than smokes, but I use less juice and get less nasty crap than I do from two packs and a pipe per day. Please note I will never give up my pipe tobacco. I'll just grow gills and breathe like a fish when my lungs rot out...

The wife and I are taking a break from rolling are own cigs, we have been rolling for 16+ years. We would use the pipe tobacco that was 100% tobacco with no shit added. I think it's time to go back to rolling, tastes better and saves a ton of $$$$. I have about 25lbs of tobacco and around 40K tubes.....We have no plan at this point to give up our nicotine, hell at our age, whats the point? I know a few older guys over the years that quit and all died within 5 or so years. I think that being a long term smoker and quitting is not a good idea. But that's just me......We always hear about how bad smoking is, but you never hear about the 1000's of tons of jet fuel burned in the US every day. What the f*ck? I guess we are not to know about that.(n)

J R

 

[Sludge]

The wife and I are taking a break from rolling are own cigs, we have been rolling for 16+ years. We would use the pipe tobacco that was 100% tobacco with no shit added. I think it's time to go back to rolling, tastes better and saves a ton of $$$$. I have about 25lbs of tobacco and around 40K tubes.....We have no plan at this point to give up our nicotine, hell at our age, whats the point? I know a few older guys over the years that quit and all died within 5 or so years. I think that being a long term smoker and quitting is not a good idea. But that's just me......We always hear about how bad smoking is, but you never hear about the 1000's of tons of jet fuel burned in the US every day. What the f*ck? I guess we are not to know about that.(n)

J R

I admit that the only reason I started to quit cigs is because of my son. At 18 he was smoking two packs a day of those damned menthols. I got tired of hearing him hacking up a friggen' lung at all hours of the night. So being the fine role model that I am I started by giving him a rash of shit about menthols everyday at work (we work at the same factory right now....). Of course I have been smoking for at least 24 years, so who am I to talk, right? So I did the only logical thing and made it a "I'm better than the old man." contest out of it. He is off the menthols in just three weeks. We are both down to about three packs of smokes a week total. So then I discover he is also using a vape AND chewing in addition to the damned menthols. Goddamned kids these days, I tell ya'. So I had to step up again and play Dad and outlaw chew in the house and on the property. As for the vapes, we both discovered while loading four cords of firewood for another Vet that the smokes were the reason we were both bushed, not the fact we were lugging firewood and running chainsaws in the blazing sun in 95 degree weather... (Kids are so gullible....) So we both switched to vapes.
He is doing better than I am, mostly I think because he is trying to show up the old man. Fine by me. Just hope he doesn't figure out who is actually winning....
The real problem is, the last time I tried to quit smoking a few years back, I started having seizures again... I haven't had the heart to tell the boy that fact. So here I am with my driving license pulled, full of drugs and seizing right and left all to get my kid to quit being stupid. Good news is I am taking advantage of the situation and while I'm on all these pills I am going to quit smokes for good. I like the vape, but it makes me feel like one of these PBR drinking hipster shitheads so I figure it wont last long either. As for my pipes, well, they can take that away from me when I am dead. Best PTSD therapy in the world is a fresh cup of US Navy style black and thick as oil coffee, my favorite hand carved pear wood pipe, and a bit of one of the tobaccos from my collection smoldering away as I sit on my pond/patio/shade garden complex and listen to the birds while the sun comes up. I had to give up blowing shit up with large robotic guns, booze and beer and pot and hallucinogens, chasing women and building hotrodded VW beetles, but I sure as hell am not giving up my pipe therapy mornings.

I do miss rolling my own smokes, but ever since they added all that fire retardant to the paper by federal law, I lost my taste for them. Wish I could get some old school, pre chemical soaked ZigZags to roll with.

 

[5line]

whoa! thanks alot sludge. i dont take the quetiapine but once every month or two (on average) i definitely dont like what it does. im going to inquire about he prazosin, too. thanks again