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News Son Convicted Should Serve No Prison Time For "20 Minutes Of Action"

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Yes, and the tax payers will carry that burden too. And the victim will be on trial again.

Palo...

I don't like that part. That part angers me.

One consolation...The world now remembers this guy's name. What he looks like. Regardless of the slap on the wrist he actually may or may not serve?
He IS going to be remembered as the Stanford Rapist.
He's going to wish he had quietly plea-bargained.
 
I read all this the other day.
And struggled to believe this was a real case and that the submissions were really written the way they were.

Probably the thing I found most difficult to believe was that this frat boys Father spent all that money fighting for his sons right to freedom, hiring high paid lawyers etc.

Who didn't bother to inform their clients father that '20 minutes of action' was probably NOT the right choice of words to use to gain sympathy from the Judge, jury, whoever those submissions were made to.

Every idiot with half an idea about how the judicial system works knows that those words were a huge error.
 
This case is different in that is does national and international attention to the legal issues.
How the University system fails assault victims.
How the Judicial system fails those that come forward seeking justice.
How sentencing is handled.
How judges are elected and is justice meted out fairly.
I happen to be of the view that this is par for the course; much of the same; nothing completely out of the ordinary.
Yes, you are correct it has been par for the course. How to change how sexual assault is handled judicially is the issue.

The current system is a coercive monopoly
it's not a competitive monopoly which provides such good service at such stunningly good prices that competition cannot get established

it's coercive, in that it stamps out any competition. It views the rape, not as an offence against the victim, but as an offence against a statute and the state

Like all coercive monopolies, compared to freely competing providers (all other things kept constant) it will provide lower quality, less quantity and at an ever increasing higher price.

It doesn't have to worry about attracting customers who are seeking redress for wrongs committed against them, it denies them anywhere else to go, It's judges can remain out of touch and ignorant. If anything, crap judgements can be used as an argument for more money to help overcome the present difficulties, which in almost any state sector service, are almost always blamed on underfunding.

In private contracts, including insurance, it's normal to have an agreed system of dispute resolution or arbitration which both parties agree to abide by when they sign.

If the mediator or arbitrator made a bad decision, they'd be out of business on a much quicker time scale than the length of a state sector judge's elected term. For both parties to enter the contract - the mediator or arbitrator has have a reputation for sound judgements and absolute impartiality

Sound judgement and absolute impartiality are qualities that seem to have been sadly lacking in the present judge

IMO, the boys father sounds like a completely clueless entitled and invalidating arsehole.

There's also the question that has already been raised in this thread, of the crappy way that many universities treat their customers (their students).
There's a very strong argument that university administrators are more interested in ticking the boxes for government funds, rather than in competing to attract students by offering an excellent education and a safe environment.

I realise that this reply has gone far too long already - a little history might be useful, I'll happily start a fresh thread if anyone wants to discuss it further.

The University of Bologna (probably the oldest in the western world), began when the groups of students from outside the city of Bologna, who had travelled there to study, all got together to form an organisation, to universally insure against the claims for unpaid debts (if you were in Bologna, you were held liable for the debts of anyone from your city or your principality who absconded without paying)
and to hire teachers.

What might that look like in a modern university?

all students required to take out legal insurance against tort claims as a condition of acceptance (insurance sufficeint to compensate for loss and for the continued treatment of victims)

Expulsion of anyone who looses their insurance (as a result of behaviour likely to lead to a claim)

Small enough insurance groups that there is an incentive to keep an eye on people who are likely to generate a claim, or an incentive for insurance groups to police the campus (present day campus police hardly have much of a reputation).

In a dispute, any judge has to be acceptable to both parties and their insurers.
 
I find it to be an outrage that a young woman is subjected to "20 minutes of action" and the animal who did this gets away with a slap on the wrist. Our justice system is in a sorry state. We need to remind the judges that it is, indeed, called the justice system.

It is where citizens are suppose to go to get justice for wrongs done to them. Where is the justice for this young woman? Why isn't this sentence considered cruel and unusual punishment for her?

I understand the judge not wanting to ruin this young man's life, but what about hers? I am sorry if prison would ruin his life, but he sadistically raped an unconscious girl, and he is solely responsible for his actions, and if his life is ruined, he is the one who ruined it.

Ladies I am sorry our system twice traumatizes rape victims. (Yes I know guys can be raped too, but the context of this thread is the rape of a woman)
 
Why are you turning this thread a diatribe about a Presidental candidate?

As someone who wants to be head of the body which ultimately employs judges and who will sign the laws that judges will judge adherence too

Drawing attention to the similarity between the candiates entitled personalities and the failings of the institution is (IMO) fair and insightful.

the failings of the judiciary and the personalities attracted to run for president and both symptoms of the same disease; a bad case of entitlement.
 
Drawing attention to the similarity between the candiates entitled personalities and the failings of the institution is (IMO) fair and insightful.
I personally think it is insulting to the girl who was raped. She will, most likely, not ever read this thread, but it is about the injustice she suffered, and should not be minimalized by turning it into a Presidential political statement.
 
Please stop the off topic questions toward me!

@RussH

The OP already made this point awhile ago and the discussion stopped dead in its tracks.

I see this as baiting at this point, especially since it's well after the OP pointed out that I was going off topic.

I dropped the discussion because nobody understood what I was saying.

Why are you trying to go off topic and revive that part of the discussion?

Please keep the convo to the topic at hand and if you have a problem with what I said, you can contact me on my profile page or send me a PM. I'm not premium so I can't go back and edit my posts. I'm not going to get roped into going off topic again.

I am saying this here so that everyone who has issues with what I said can contact me personally instead of posting the questions here and continuing to go astray from the main topic.
 
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Convicted Brock Turner statement as presented to the court. He is appealing the conviction.

He blames alcohol consumption exclusively on his act of rape.

"I never want to attend a social gathering that involves alcohol or any situation where people make decisions based on the substances they have consumed. I never want to experience being in a position where it will have a negative impact on my life or someone else’s ever again. I’ve lost two jobs solely based on the reporting of my case. I wish I never was good at swimming or had the opportunity to attend Stanford, so maybe the newspapers wouldn’t want to write stories about me."

Brock Turner's statement blames sexual assault on Stanford ‘party culture’

http://www.theguardian.com/us-news/...r-statement-stanford-rape-case-campus-culture

'The night of January 17th changed my life and the lives of everyone involved forever. I can never go back to being the person I was before that day. I am no longer a swimmer, a student, a resident of California, or the product of the work that I put in to accomplish the goals that I set out in the first nineteen years of my life. Not only have I altered my life, but I’ve also changed [redacted] and her family’s life. I am the sole proprietor of what happened on the night that these people’s lives were changed forever. I would give anything to change what happened that night. I can never forgive myself for imposing trauma and pain on [redacted]. It debilitates me to think that my actions have caused her emotional and physical stress that is completely unwarranted and unfair. The thought of this is in my head every second of every day since this event has occurred. These ideas never leave my mind. During the day, I shake uncontrollably from the amount I torment myself by thinking about what has happened. I wish I had the ability to go back in time…...
 
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Alcohol huh?

Really?

That's the cause of all of his misdeeds? Wow.

Yeah, big man huh? Gets a f*cking bullshit sentence, and still can't f*cking own up to it. f*cking f*ck.

That's right, it's not you, it's the boohoooze yeah? f*cking pathetic. Piece of shit. Guess what asshole? Inmates make booze in their cells. Other scumbags that think like you. You're going to get f*cked in the ass, enjoy. But don't worry, it won't be his fault. He's just had too much to drink. You'll be able to forgive him right? After all, it's won't be his fault.

I used to drink till I was blackout drunk. Know how many women I've raped? ZERO!!

You know how many I've wanted to? ZERO!!

Why? BECAUSE IT'S WRONG!!! More than that, it's sick. There's no urge to fight, there is no temptation!

I went to a party once. Girl who I thought was really cute, drank too much. Passed out on her feet, went face first into a coffee table. Lucky her, she was at a party with an EMT and an army medic.

I volunteered to stay up with her to make sure she stayed ok.

Know how many times I touched her? ZERO!!

Know how much I wanted to? NOT AT ALL!

BECAUSE IT'S SICK!!

I wasn't sober. Somehow the booze didn't turn me into a rapist... hmmm... I wonder why? Let me think...

Oh I know. Because that's a huge pile of bullshit! I didn't rape the girl, because I'm not a f*cking rapist!

f*ck!!!
 
I understand the judge not wanting to ruin this young man's life, but what about hers? I am sorry if prison would ruin his life, but he sadistically raped an unconscious girl, and he is solely responsible for his actions, and if his life is ruined, he is the one who ruined it.
I don't understand the judge not wanting to ruin Brock's life - whether she cared or not. We have laws. Period. I agree, he ruined his life - just, that argument about mitigating sentencing shouldn't exist.

It's still staggering to me that there is this much public debate going into the potential future life of a privileged white male. I know, this should not be shocking - but I'm kind of glad I still have personal capacity for shock, here. I'm also empathetic to people who feel nothing but sorrow and hopeless about it.

Also still shocking: this idea that there's a difference between 'rape' and 'rape'. When the question is murder, the US errs on the other side, pushing for trying children as adults and heavy penalties. But rape - committed by a college-age student - isn't really rape if he says 'oops, I want a do-over'. You don't. The part about laws is, you don't break them. And if he knew right from wrong - which he did - drunk or not isn't relevant.

Not the first time this kind of defense has come into the US court system. Both the 'think of his future' and the 'do-over' and the 'sorry, drunk'.

But - I think the woman being older, and not tied into the same college system, has changed the public discourse in a way that just didn't happen with the last 100 or so cases similar to this. Maybe with her statement, she finally gave voice to multitudes of victims. And because she was willing to be incredibly public about her experience - now, finally, it's ok to really talk openly about all of it.

Her statement was a game changer, I think, in the longer arc of how rape can become less subjective.

And his father really did f*ck up - by revealing that even he, the role model for his son, did not see what happened as a crime. So much so that he destroyed his sons future anyway (as @mary1979 and others have pointed out). Which is chilling. One thing to have parents silent, stoic, and maybe they know it was wrong. Another thing entirely to have Dad saying it wasn't.
 
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