Structural Dissociation - Psychotic 'part'

[sun seeker]

it felt in my head like I was totally losing it, there was so much pain in my head that my head almost burst

Is it a physical pain, or more like your head is bursting from too many painful thoughts?

 

[shimmerz]

in which the pain seemed so unbearable,

Shit, my 'So Much Pain' posting.... yes and it started in my head. I couldn't handle what was going on in my head.

Some "part" of you felt that shelter was necessary.

Interesting take.....yes, another option..... however i may have failed to mention that shelter was about 110 degrees with the windows closed and was only going to get hotter with every moment. See? Not just a poor choice....a deadly one. I make those sometimes. In winter it is ditches with no coat or boots, in summer it is a sweltering car.

And we all know unicorns don't actually come in purple.

DO SO! :grumpy:

I remember you wrote somewhere in capital letters "only one more thing"

Yes, I sure did. And 1 more thing did happen. My head started to physically hurt - and I don't do pain. That sent me over the edge....
I will need to look into Porges, thanks so much Born.

Hmm, I am going to have to think about this psychosis thing. Poor choices...very. Not based in reality - as there was a chair right beside me, a phone in my hand. I did mention it felt like a 'script' I was playing out. Blue (in the house) not blue (in the car).

Sun, I can't speak for Born but for me the psychological pain manifested physically. Before it got physical I literally wanted to rip my face apart.

Now that, is not just a poor choice.

 

[Born to Run]

Is it a physical pain, or more like your head is bursting from too many painful thoughts?

Thoughts in my head were no longer present, it was pure emotional pain, and my face also hurt unbearably.

 

[Born to Run]

Porges has a real good website, with much of his papers for download. I never find it an easy read as he often uses a lot of terminology.

http://stephenporges.com

ETA: mistake, not so much of his papers are for download, just abstracts. Google Porges and social engagement system will probably be better.

 

[shimmerz]

it was pure emotional pain,

hmmmm, is that what emotional pain feels like? I didn't LIKE it! :inpain:

No wonder I don't 'do pain'. :rolleyes:

 

[Hope4Now]

Does that make them psychosomatic?

Yes. Mindbody all wrapped up together. Sometimes called "conversion disorder" too. That would be me/my pain. I can give you scores of examples of family and friends who have developed physical illnesses that grew from emotional overload. CFS and Fibromyalgia are commonly associated with trauma. I know I and two other people got shingles after a particularly stressful time...etc. Western medicine still doesn't get that the mindbody are really one interconnected system...

It seems that that EP has no sense of the reality of the situation.

Brings me to other thought - you said 'no sense of reality whatsoever' - but what you described IS a sense of reality, a reality of the trauma and being stuck in it, that it doesn't apply to right now is a different thing. I'd be working on making communication bridges with that part. (Sort of 'I've got the now and you let me cover it, listen to me when I say we're at a different point hence safe, and heyy I'm here and listening. What you feel is real and is bad but we're at XYZ different point now'. Establishing communication and as clear channels as possible before working on what's causing current distress.).

^^^ she has no sense of the "real" situation now, because it isn't real to her. Her "real" is something else, but it is just as real. It's just then instead of now. Real is not always now...there are multiple realities (but I wont go there...:p:cool:). What she needs to learn, is to give YOU space to function healthily in the now reality that is embodied in you where you sit or stand or lie at this moment. She took over executive control of you and forced you to live (or die as it might be) HER reality. She needs to learn that you can take care of her needs in YOUR reality now. That she doesn't have to die. She wants to die because she took on some false belief from somewhere that that was the only way to escape. (God, the linguistics of all this ARE impossible...that's why naming parts has been really helpful to me!).

for me the psychological pain manifested physically. Before it got physical I literally wanted to rip my face apart.

Now that, is not just a poor choice.

Been there oh, too many times.
So...last night...had a breakthrough. I have no clue where the psychological pain came from or the amped up sacral and leg pain, but I suddenly found myself in the kitchen about to slice myself open with a serrated knife. I saw it. Didn't feel it. Didn't seem real. I was sort of possessed by one of my self-destructive parts that comes out in this particular way. But for one of the first times, my "practice" of just noticing and not "doing," took hold. I noticed. I looked. And in that brief moment something changed. I punched the countertop, splashed cold water on my face and neck, jumped up and down to feel the pain of the physical pain more (??!! no clue why...just trying to displace one pain for another maybe)...frantically searching for reasons why this was happening/what triggered me...then I just stopped. Got all buddhist. Looked around me. Tried to name things. No language available. Just grounded to the physical pain first...breathed...let my larger self see the big picture...and asked my analytical thinker ANP to give me a little space and stop trying to figure it out. It all worked. The episode passed mostly. At least the intensity of it did. Twenty minutes I think. I was a different "person" afterward. And I felt inordinately proud of myself...and guess what? Today a lot of stuff processed inside me. I think because I was able to somehow communicate with my ANP(s)/EP(s) and make a choice that did not involve self-destruction. (Wow, not sure any of this makes any sense at all...sorry if not).

You know I'm opinionated about this parts thing :D. So here it is...I think the way to healing is NOT through ANP. I think this is what CBT gets at...it is all about working with managers/protectors/ANP who "control" the EP(s). I think there has to be something beyond that. Something some people call the SELF. It comes at the emotional parts AND the ANP parts from a place of love and compassion and curiosity. It wants to witness. It appreciates all of the parts. When it gets strong, it manages these parts in a gentle healthy loving and communicative way. But it can't get strong as long as there is a polarization between EP(s) and ANP(s) where each is vying for control. Maybe it works well for people who had some sort of integrated personality before their trauma/ptsd, but not for folks with really early trauma. IMHO.

 

[shimmerz]

Her "real" is something else, but it is just as real. It's just then instead of now.

I must disagree. Her reality back then and my reality now actually are very similar. Which is why I think it becomes psychotic. The EP and the ANP are BOTH hopeless in so many ways.

I am slowly trying to take this stuff in. Please be patient with me. This is so very important right now to me.

 

[sun seeker]

is that what emotional pain feels like?

I'm not sure. Trying to get a sense from reading this whether this is something I've ever experienced, and I'm still not sure.

To me, emotional pain isn't localized. It's everywhere, but not just in my body, outside of it too, and in a location that is sort of in my body and sort of not, like an invisible double of my body if that makes any sense. There can be too much of it to fit in my body so it spills out. There is a sense of being in so much pain that I'm turning inside out or having my guts pulled out of my mouth with a vacuum cleaner. It makes me writhe in agony. I haven't had the experience of wanting to tear off part of my body though.

 

[Hope4Now]

Her reality back then and my reality now actually are very similar. Which is why I think it becomes psychotic. The EP and the ANP are BOTH hopeless in so many ways.

Please be patient with me.

Of course I'm patient. I don't get it either. I love your questions because they make me think.
Are the realities similar because she is flooding you/taking you over? This is where all this parts stuff turns into a sort of mindf*&K (sorry for the expression). It's like what perspective do you try to understand this all from. Is the reality similar because SHE thinks she is you now. Or is it similar because YOU now feel trapped and scared and unwanted the way she probably did and feel like there's no escape/double bind, etc.? If both EP and ANP are feeling hopeless, that means (in my interpretation of the world which is, of course, absolutely correct:cool::D) that these are BOTH WOUNDED AND HURTING PARTS THAT NEED HEALING. Sorry for shouting. Need emphasis. If I were sitting across from you I would be waving my hands.

So here's an obnoxious question for you. WHY do you want to get better? How you answer this may tell you a lot about where you are on this journey.

There can be too much of it to fit in my body so it spills out. There is a sense of being in so much pain that I'm turning inside out or having my guts pulled out of my mouth with a vacuum cleaner. It makes me writhe in agony.

Yes yes yes. I've never actually thought of it as "pain." Just "overwhelm." But the sense of too-muchness is there. The drive to cut something open to let it out, or to turn inside out, or to vomit...argh.

 

[shimmerz]

And in that brief moment something changed. I punched the countertop, splashed cold water on my face and neck, jumped up and down to feel the pain of the physical pain more

This is GOOOD! Way to change things Hope! Yeah you!

 

[scout86]

DO SO! :grumpy:

Do NOT! :mad::p

No, I got what you meant about the car being a potentially deadly place to "hide". But think about kids hiding in old refrigerators. Or hiding in the closet when the house is on fire. Or of a horse in a barn fire. You get him outside and he wants to run back into the burning building because his stall seems "safe" even if it's not. That's not exactly "psychotic" Here's the Dictionary.com definition of "psychotic"
"a mental disorder characterized by symptoms, such as delusions or hallucinations, that indicate impaired contact with reality."

So, I suppose whether or not climbing into the car was psychotic depends on how you perceived the car at the time. Did it actually look your best friend's kitchen? That's what I'd call psychotic. If you merely weren't looking at it in enough detail to consider the long term consequences, that seems a bit different. At least to me. The horse who runs back into a burning barn isn't psychotic. He's a horse, doing what horses sometimes do in that kind of situation. The child who hides from the fire in her closet isn't psychotic. She's just scared and maybe not mature enough to think things through better. (Some adults under duress don't do much better.)

Some of this is very thought provoking. And then I think "Oh no, they're talking about the 'parts' thing again." LOL

 

[shimmerz]

Or is it similar because YOU now feel trapped and scared and unwanted the way she probably did and feel like there's no escape/double bind, etc.?

Yes. This is what it feels like. It is like the perfect storm.

WHY do you want to get better?

Because I want to walk freely on this earth. I want to experience again, be of service again, laugh again (I haven't laughed for a WHOLE WEEK (or is it two?). I feel like I have been living the life of the walking dead. And I want to put to use these tools and help others or serve coffee at f*cking Mcdonalds if I want to. You know?

I've never actually thought of it as "pain." Just "overwhelm."

That is hilarious. Never thought of that. Most people say pain. We say overwhelm. And yes, for the first time ever I wanted to slit myself open to let it out. I have never felt that before. I am so sorry for those of you who do.

This pain bullshit is for the birds. No idea how you guys do this.