Relationship Struggling with partner going through this tough time

[Hojay]

For me, that means the friendship is over, as well as the relationship.

I think we may be talking different timelines and/or breakup scenarios here.

Mutual separations may totally entail all of the above the very next day, heck, the very next minute after ending the "relationship."

Non-mutual separations may also transition into a friendship with a certain level of intimacy, but that must happen in stages, and it usually takes a while until the person who was broken up with can participate in that friendship without getting their wires crossed. If they CAN participate in a friendship with that level of intimacy right after breaking up, well, by definition, it was a mutual breakup.

So just because the relationship is over and all intimacy and relationship-like behavior stops, doesn't mean two people can't reconvene at a later date, in friendship, when both have re-individualized accordingly.

Also, just because communication and intimacy ends, doesn't mean that the ending of this communication and intimacy isn't happening "in friendship," or rather, "as an act of friendship." You don't have to be on top of each other, engaging in intimate and emotional ways, and performing favors and duties for the other person, to be "friends." Some times the most "friendly" thing to stop being friends for a while.

The thing is, most people who were broken up with while still very much wanting that relationship may very well participate in a "friendship," but from my experience, and from observing everyone around me, those scenarios are built on a lot of false hope and a lack of self honesty about what one really is wanting from these interactions, as well as a certain amount of denial and a huge set of blinders on part of the person who broke up, who, for reasons of their own, choose to ignore how much that "friendship" is hurting the other person.

 

[Hojay]

One of the people I learned how to be friends with exes after, real friends not just the “lets just be friends” lie... was very much there for me through some really hard times. And good ones. And, no. I didn’t want to be broken up with him, at all. I loved the hell out of him.

This is a unique scenario, and I don't know how long after the break up this level of engagement occurred. But if it was a seamless transition, without time apart, I'd argue that, on some level, perhaps the break up was mutual enough for you to be able to engage in that way.

 

[Ronin]

IMO it may be as much how you communicate care & love languages, & values, as core things... than how the break up was executed & timing.

For instance, I don't see light touch / hands holding as a romantic relationship thing... at all.

I see it as care, not exclusive to one type of relation. Aside of people & cultures where that is taboo or commonly understood as being in other's space (eeh, get off. You being ten inches away from me is being aall over me.), touch conveys to me soo many things about having each other & safety of situations. We can be holding hands, wonders. We not only have the hands, but don't need them for anything else to protect each other / anyone.

Ditto love languages. No touch? Means we are enemies. Or, in the very least, that there is a profound distrust about *something* going on... which is not very conductive to being sharey, about anything / other relational things cannot be built off of that, in that atmosphere.

 

[Hojay]

@Ronin I'm basing my whole presumption here on the OP's own words about how he felt about having his hand held in that last interaction. He said it brought back everything he then understood was over, so he quite naturally had an emotional reaction. My point of view was that of course he had an unpleasant emotional reaction and that that sort of intimacy should be avoided for just that reason.

 

[Friday]

I'd argue that, on some level, perhaps the break up was mutual enough for you to be able to engage in that way.

Nope. Not mutual in the least. And as I was the one there, I can attest to it.

This is a unique scenario.

Also hardly unique.

The OP is doing it.
I’ve done it.
I know tons of people who’ve done it or are doing it.

given the context of this breakup and the obvious struggle on part of the OP, she isn’t particularly helping him find a clean break.

its not her job to help him find a clean break.

That’s not what they’ve discussed, or decided upon, together. They’ve decided to try being friends, living in the same place, whilst they work out what they’re each individually going to do next. And, so far, that’s going fairly well for them. Some bittersweet moments, to be sure, but that’s to be expected.

That’s an entirely different paradigm.

Which is why I brought up that yes, I’ve done that.

I’m really not sure why you seem so determined to prove I “haven’t” done that? (I have.) Or are continuing to press “for a clean break you need to do this”, or how what they’re doing is terrible practice for a clean break... when they’re not doing a clean break. They may decide to later, if this doesn’t work out for them, but for now? It’s working. As it works for many. There’s no need to vilify their ex, or go no contact, or harden their heart and walk away for the sake of their own sanity. Because their ex is a lovely person, that they live with, and are learning & adjusting to new normals. 2 totally different kinds of breakups. Each with their own benefits and drawbacks, but each equally real. Maybe-we-can-be-friends-again-after-some-time-has-passed is another kind of breakup. Also real. Also different from Still-Friends?-Still-Friends.

 

[Hojay]

Your response reads a bit hostile. So if I said something that rubbed you the wrong way, I apologize. Maybe there are some interpretations going on that have little to do with what I've been saying.

Nope. Not mutual in the least. And as I was the one there, I can attest to it.

I believe you. And I'm glad you guys could take that step.

Also hardly unique.

The OP is doing it.
I’ve done it.
I know tons of people who’ve done it or are doing it.

Neither of us know if the OP "is doing that," because we can't look inside this relationship or his state of mind, so neither of us are wrong here. From my experience, and from observing everyone around me, I can't come up with a single example of this having worked. But that's my experience and my perspective, so again, neither of us can claim to know what's "normal."

its not her job to help him find a clean break.

First of all, I'm talking a clean "emotional" break here, not in terms of logistics and living situations.

Secondly, this is where I disagree somewhat. Sure, we're all responsible for ourselves and our own feelings. But we can't deny that we're also responsible for how we treat other people and/or what situations we put them in. While their reaction to our treatment is their own to manage, it doesn't mean we're exculpated from treating them in whatever way in the first place.

So in this scenario, sure, the person who was broken up with is responsible for extracting themselves if the situation is too painful. But that doesn't absolve the other person from behaving in ways that make it harder, more confusing, or sometimes even impossible for the other to know how to extract themselves.

"We're all responsible for ourselves" is a right and true concept, but it's also limited when you look at it in the context of human interaction as a whole. If we were all running around thinking we're only responsible for ourselves, the whole concept of morality and social contract would go out the window.

That’s not what they’ve discussed, or decided upon, together. They’ve decided to try being friends, living in the same place, whilst they work out what they’re each individually going to do next. And, so far, that’s going fairly well for them. Some bittersweet moments, to be sure, but that’s to be expected.

I'd not be commenting here if I read the OP's comments to mean this is "going fairly well." What I'm reading, rather, is someone in relationship with PTSD, trying to figure out what the hell this means, whether there might be hope, getting his hopes dashed, thinking it'll be ok to remain friends, bumping up against the very real and natural fact that remaining friends is really difficult, managing the fact that there still is some hope in the back of his mind (because her actions are somewhat inconsistent,) while also taking care of her children, being there for her, performing acts and duties of a partner (when she lets him,) and having conversations that sound emotionally harder to place than necessary.

What I'm seeing is that his focus remains very much on her, what she needs, her limits and boundaries, and how he can keep being a good friend (most likely with some hope sprinkled in that that will increase the chances of her "coming back,") while at the same time expressing some very understandable emotional pain about the whole scenario.

I obviously have no horse in this race, but what I do know a thing or two about is codependence, and the many ways in which it can disguise itself. As ever, the OP should take what helps and leave the rest, but I wanted to highlight the areas in which he may be caught up in a scenario that isn't serving his emotional well-being, as well as where he may be fooling himself about his true feelings, regardless of what his ex partner wants or needs. Whether I'm right or wrong, I have no idea, nor do I care. I'm merely offering my perspective, as we all are on here.

I’m really not sure why you seem so determined to prove I “haven’t” done that?

I'm trying to prove anything. I don't know anything about what you have or haven't done. I'm merely expressing a perspective that may or may not apply to your situation.

Or are continuing to press “for a clean break you need to do this”, or how what they’re doing is terrible practice for a clean break

I'm also not pressing for anything. I merely have a different opinion and perspective. Nothing that's been said particularly convinces me that my perspective is totally off base, so I'll keep expressing it, as should you.

There’s no need to vilify their ex, or go no contact, or harden their heart and walk away for the sake of their own sanity.

A few posts up I clarified that I don't believe there's anything wrong with this woman, or that she's doing anything out of conscious cruelty. I also don't think there needs to be no-contact or any hardenings of hearts. That's taking everything to an uneccessary extreme. I do believe, however, that when a relationship ends, and when someone is struggling as much as the OP is (and especially when a mental illness is at play, which always runs the risk of eliciting codependence,) it's time to re-individualize, not keep things the same (or rather, keep things entirely on the other person's terms,) while slapping on a different label.

 

[Friday]

Neither of us know if the OP "is doing that," because we can't look inside this relationship or his state of mind,

We can know that... because that is exactly what they have been saying, post after post after post, for 3 going on 4 pages. That they’ve actually made adjustments as they’ve implemented things? Also tells us this isn’t what they’re considering doing, but actually doing.

I didn't think I could just be friends but when I say and thought about it, we've got years of just being friends behind us, nothing has changed other than the fact I love her deeply. I've told her that, and I know deep down that's how she feels about it too, she showed the emotions the other day.

It will take some adjustments but after talking again this morning while she was working from home, I still feel it's the right thing, wether it changes in the future who knows.

She was kind and caring and able to calm me down, and asked if it would be better we moved out of this house or not? I've decided not to right now and move into a separate room, which she has agreed to.

I'm sorting out the room tomorrow, and going to focus on myself, be a friend, and once I've settled my mind I'll make plans to move and finally buy my own house, albeit a smaller one I never expectedbut I must stop trying to follow these dreams/expectations I put into place.

She's reverted to being the good friends we always was,

on the whole, she's not exactly been trying to be close, just been trying to be a friend and ask if I'm okay..

factoring in the fact I feel we can do this as friends for now, whilst it helps us both money wise, and support when needed, until we both decide what we want to do individually.

Your response reads a bit hostile.

Hostile? No. Frustrated? Yes.

(My ex girlfriend and I are doing A)

I’ve done A
You mean B
No. A.
Possibly you meant C?
No. A.
It can’t be A, because to be A it must...
No. It mustn’t. It was A.
I find in these situations a lack of self honesty...
I was not lying to myself. I am not lying now. I said A. I meant A.
I’m familiar with how D can disguise itself as...
I. Lived. It. It. Was. A.
You seem a bit hostile.
:banghead:
Hostile? No. Frustrated? Yes.

I’m really not certain how either the OP or myself could be any clearer. Your choosing not to believe either of us isn’t something I can do anything about, because, clearly explaining isn’t the issue. You’re simply not listening. As such, how Hojay’s Opinion Is Friday Is Wrong About Her Life can either be It’s own thread, or simply end here, because either way I’m done trying to explain that I’m talking about A, because the OP is talking about A, and no, I do not mean B-Z, I mean A.

 

[Hojay]

Ok, I think my presence on this site has run its course. I don’t need to be reprimanded for stating my perspectives or interpretation of what I’ve read from the OP, by a moderator no less.

If you read the OP‘s multiple comments, you will see that he’s been inconsistent in what he thinks or feels about the situation. He hasn’t been as clear as it may look at first blush. But sure, you can pick out the quotes that confirm the point you’re trying to make.

I was respectful throughout, judged nobody, and didn’t force anybody to agree with me. I just have a very different view and it’s up to the OP to take that perspective, or leave it, not you.

If you take my perspective personally enough to actually be able to get frustrated by it, that’s not my issue. I also have no idea how you could interpret my words to mean I think you’re wrong about your life. This thread hasn’t been about you.

 

[alanwp]

Not in my experience.

One of the people I learned how to be friends with exes after, real friends not just the “lets just be friends” lie... was very much there for me through some really hard times. And good ones. And, no. I didn’t want to be broken up with him, at all. I loved the hell out of him.

I remember very clearly doing the laugh-cry thing at one point telling him “THIS is how you get on so well with all your exes, huh?”

He just kind of did the shrug laugh thing, and said “Pretty much.”

There is a learning curve to these kinds of things. And I’m sure it helped that the guys I dated early on were damn fine, so I had good people to learn from. I think if I’d been dating malicious bastards, or cold fish, I’d probably have a very different outlook on things.

Thankyou for all of the posts on here, it's been a nice read.

I think what you say gives me hope to be in her life still, and to support her, as a friend.

This week has been a little tough, we didn't really set boundaries, my hopes got up, we acted normal one day, then all comes crashing down once her mindset changes again.

Were back at the separate rooms thing again, she swapped "our" room about last night, making it a nicer chill out space, I read into words too much, like "our" "your side of the bed". So I said, looks like I'll be sorting the other room out for my own space then... And yes it's going to have to happen. Just like I suggested one week ago! But seemed to be shelved.

She's admitted she needs own space, as do I.. to help this. Boundaries need to be set regardless of our real deep down feelings to avoid causing hurt and upset over time. Which as much as that hurts, I agree with, one day she feels like we can be together, then next she doesn't, and she doesn't want to keep doing that and causing hurt and upset for us both.

She's given me the talk about me not feeling bad if I wanted to move out, even tho she admits it would upset her but can understand it for my need, life, recovery etc. So I don't feel tied here as such and can escape if I feel there's too much to deal with.

It's hard, for both of us, but we're seeing where we need to put boundaries and just be friends, to allow especially her to help herself, but also for me to do the same. Without being awkward, falling out etc.

I don't see this as her manipulating me, leaning on me, using me etc. Our feelings need holding back a little to progress this, and I have the option to leave if I feel the need to. We are ultimately here to support each other as the friends we always have been.

 

[OrangeJulius]

@alanwp

Its been another week. How's it going? Seems its been confusing about where everyone stands since the breakup. As I read your words throughout this thread....oh man could I hear myself from around this time last year.

Just wanted to invite you to read my diary Dead Link Removed if you want to feel less alone with what you're going through.

I started my diary the day my boyfriend broke up with me and it has (in great detail) all the mixed messages and all my confusion around what the heck was going on. I was also telling myself it was over but kept finding myself with hope and needing accept his words at face value.

We live together so while I would have needed a clean break to get over him I gave myself permission to just do whatever made life easier until he moved out like he expressed he would when he broke up with me.

Spoiler alert: he never moved out and we're still together but it took 9 months to hear from the horse's mouth that he's committed to me.....something I needed to hear even though the dynamics of our relationship never changed at all.

Anyways, it might be helpful to read someone else's story with similar characteristics... not for hope that you'll follow a similar path but for solidarity that someone else can relate to the state you currently find yourself in.

Hope all is as well as could be expected.

 

[alanwp]

@alanwp

Its been another week. How's it going? Seems its been confusing about where everyone stands since the breakup. As I read your words throughout this thread....oh man could I hear myself from around this time last year.

Just wanted to invite you to read my diary Dead Link Removed if you want to feel less alone with what you're going through.

I started my diary the day my boyfriend broke up with me and it has (in great detail) all the mixed messages and all my confusion around what the heck was going on. I was also telling myself it was over but kept finding myself with hope and needing accept his words at face value.

We live together so while I would have needed a clean break to get over him I gave myself permission to just do whatever made life easier until he moved out like he expressed he would when he broke up with me.

Spoiler alert: he never moved out and we're still together but it took 9 months to hear from the horse's mouth that he's committed to me.....something I needed to hear even though the dynamics of our relationship never changed at all.

Anyways, it might be helpful to read someone else's story with similar characteristics... not for hope that you'll follow a similar path but for solidarity that someone else can relate to the state you currently find yourself in.

Hope all is as well as could be expected.

Wow, well thankyou so much I had a good read of it all.

It's nice (also not nice..) to know that somebody has been through such a similar thing to what I seem to be going through.

This week has been okay considering, I feel we have kept some boundaries. Weekend was the girls birthdays so we spent all weekend together with them, one night away in the camper.. so we had a good chat together, which was nice. She appreciates everything I do, and she cares.

Since then I've been working nights so not been home much, although I've seen them all in the mornings and have got hugs before leaving the house.

Still in the same bed, but I mentioned I would look at a new bed for me once payday comes round. She's not mentioned anything about it since.

She started EMDR yesterday, which seems more positive than the therapist she met last week who just wants her to take tablets for depression.

Afterwards she messaged me asking to meet up somewhere for a coffee, which we did. Another nice thing before I left for nightshift.

We seem to be functioning fine as we are just now, like you say it's hard to not place any hope onto anything.. but I shall see.

I'm learning not to overthink everything and stress and just take each day as it comes, and just try look after me as well as supporting her.

I'm in a better understanding of how her thinking is, and she will still be looking at other houses etc etc, even if that's her and the girls, or all of us.

So long as I don't lose her completely I guess that's all I can hope for.

 

[Freida]

She started EMDR yesterday,

bout this.
things are about to get really complicated for her. EMDR is awesome -- -but it is also one of the most horrible things I've ever done. It is physically painful and mentally exhausting because you basically dig up your trauma, relive it, then change your thinking about it. When it works it is amazing. Everything that happened just doesn't seem to matter as much anymore.

But the process is awful. It knocks me out for about 24 hours and I can't have anyone around me. I'm moody and cranky and in pain and generally damned unpleasant to be around. The term raving bitch may have been used on occasion :laugh:

So now is the time for you to get those boundaries straight, really begin to understand it's not about you, and get some emotional distance between the two of you. I can't remember if you are in therapy, but if not this would be a good time to set up some counseling. You may need it to keep your sanity while she works this out.