Stuckness in Therapy

[Tinyflame]

Also it feels very much the same for me, something instinctive shuts me off far before logical thought. That’s the bit I need to interact with.

Yes, well all I know is what you said about getting in your own way caught my eye, and I would say that's probably the worst for me too. I would not have seen it that way before, but now I would say it's so. I know there's some kind of saying about standing in the way of your own light, and I think I do, and it's why it makes it hard to see.

I don't feel however it's because of no- healing being rewarding- maybe more so the defense mechanisms that you said, or avoidance or whatever. All that's loaded to speak- rules against it; self identity & self-esteem; unearthing ghosts, even yesterday's ghosts; really not having the words or ability to share stuff; minimizing but that seems right; talking about others/ anybody else; even a point at this stage of the game (despite it causing big problems, probably); total confusion/ own fault; not much or any self worth, etc etc.

Idk, lately I'm afraid of everything. I'm psyching up to go outside- God forbid I have to see the neighbours, especially 2 I'm afraid of.
Friday I went to lunch with a great friend I haven't seen in a year, he and I worked together and he's Top 10 of All People to me- and it was all I could do to get my rear out the door.

I think if I could I'd probably disappear. Not that I even want to, yet I do. :(

 

[Tinyflame]

@Hopefully , something reminded me of something, that "I" (not saying 'you') realize I've done something awful, albeit not-intentionally: much like Friday said in another thread, trusting no one is trusting everyone, and this is how I take it:

I have found myself mistrusting when other's indicate (3rd party) there is a reason to mistrust. And I realize, I believe them. And if there is enough trust there to ask, and they are still living, I can go to the source and ask directly, and I will believe it, and consider that being trusting. But the real truth is, had I been trusting in the first place, I wouldn't have believed others, or gossip, or innuendo, or even outright claims or lies. And worse yet, they often come from people I know are not trustworthy, or are gossips, or have something to gain, or are outright mean (and in one or 2 cases, perhaps crazy, and definitely one both that and awfully-intentioned). In my defense, perhaps it's because of meeting very untrustworthy people, or pain, or maybe how I grew up, or what-have-you. But, OMG- there is no way to make headway, that way. Because the trust is there until again- someone says it shouldn't be. And isn't that awful, when the trust has been properly earned. :(

My analogy is all the people who come here, and say ~'my SO got triggered by me, and despite years they will never have anything to do with me again' (and probably they are right). And people say, ~that was because of the past, or that trigger really cut to the bone, or you can't do much if you're now the trigger. And they say to sufferers, that was the past, get present. And communicate. And all of that has an element of truth. But the real truth is IMHO, it's because the trust has not been given by the sufferer (if it should be/ is earned); it's more like, 'until it isn't' (which in my mind is, eventually, or 'inevitably') . It's where the past, present (and therefore ultimately even future) dovetail.

And how does it feel to be on the receiving end of that, if not warranted. :( So even a good or great T, the reserve in communication or disclosure can come back to the reserve of it will be used against me- Idk how, or when- but it will. And then combine that with, my (speaking for myself) concerns mean nothing, nor my life, well of course there's going to be silence, hiding, avoidance, reserve. One doesn't need to minimize what already one tells themself doesn't matter.

I for one am going to try to do or think differently. Because it's really an awful way to treat people. And wrecks havoc on one's life. It's also a guarantee of failure.

Sorry this is so long, rushing. :(

 

[Tinyflame]

One last thing I noticed too @Hopefully , sorry I missed the edit, is that over and above my own deficiencies or fears in trusting, there is a common theme I realize others have done (and often others past too who's voice or tape plays in our heads, the IC didn't come from nowhere), and that is they plant doubt or say bs that is much like, "So you think this person is (x- fill in the blank: honest, trustworthy, ethical, above board, cares, will keep your info private, whatever you could fear isn't so, or more so, what you think they are)" and they say, "well, NO they AREN'T", or "NO, they DON'T", when the person themself never would be any of those things (honest, ethical, trustworthy, caring etc). Maybe it's for control, maybe it's jealousy, maybe it's mean spirited, or abusive, or they have their own agenda. But it's not good.

So the doubts and fears (based on what's occurred in the past) of, "See- she will judge you/ hate you/ reject you/ laugh at you/ think you're disgusting, or nuts, or gross, or she will not respect what you say, and doesn't care, and she is lying" etc, might well have come from a person or people who would do that or were doing that to you, already. But that doesn't mean she is like that, at all. Trust your instincts and past experiences, since her goal is to help you, too. The defenses have a different genesis than what she herself has not probably earned.

And maybe it is what they mean when they say, when you can't trust others, you can't trust yourself. Because it's hard to trust our own assessment. Maybe (we) did that before, or did to our detriment when we were too young to understand otherwise, and found out the hard way it was the cause of a lot of heartache and grief or trauma.

Why do we believe strangers, or our doubts and fears, or those who've harmed us, and not those who don't? Even in terms of feedback/ our identity? :confused:

Hope that makes sense.

 

[Hopefully]

Thank you @Tinyflame. Lots of really helpful things to think on there.

I think I am learning how deeply effected I feel which feels like a lot to unravel.

 

[Tinyflame]

Yes @Hopefully . :hug:

I'm not sure I can admit that to myself, but for one of the 1st times ever I admitted it's just ok to cling to what helps my heart, head and soul, and contributes to staying afloat (even if I don't deserve it). And regardless of what other's think, or shame me.

Which ironically, however, I think also helps me to value those and what deserves to be, more, I think. Which helps me to treat others better and probably helps me, too (even if it's hard to face stuff).

Best wishes to you on your journey. :hug:

 

[grit]

If me or anyone else could tell you how to open up in therapy and you will do, it would have hsppen. I had similar experience- 0 trust in therapy unconsciously. Of course consciouly and rationally I trustef all my therapists. Do this is my opinion and from my experience and what I learned: it is not T job to make you open. In fact if she does that with your full resisence - it will be equivalent of retraumatizing by intruding upon you similar to whoever hurt you. So in short, you have to do the open ing up not being DONE to open. This distinction is really important in therapy. Now I do not if you journal but you need to get in touch with memories in the past so first you are able to have them available to share. Your adult side is desperate to heal but your innerside does not trust you- the adult side because you self abandoned yurself.

Journal.
Doing some creative manuver to get your child like feel safe - drums, singing, dancing, nature, hiking, swimming etc

And if all fail, beg your old childoid sidebto trust you....pray or meditation or set intrntions
The resistance is between you and yourself before the trauma. The therapist will just wait patiently and should not interfere between your body and mind if there is a great conflict.

 

[Hopefully]

If me or anyone else could tell you how to open up in therapy and you will do, it would have hsppen. I had similar experience- 0 trust in therapy unconsciously. Of course consciouly and rationally I trustef all my therapists. Do this is my opinion and from my experience and what I learned: it is not T job to make you open. In fact if she does that with your full resisence - it will be equivalent of retraumatizing by intruding upon you similar to whoever hurt you. So in short, you have to do the open ing up not being DONE to open. This distinction is really important in therapy. Now I do not if you journal but you need to get in touch with memories in the past so first you are able to have them available to share. Your adult side is desperate to heal but your innerside does not trust you- the adult side because you self abandoned yurself.

Journal.
Doing some creative manuver to get your child like feel safe - drums, singing, dancing, nature, hiking, swimming etc

And if all fail, beg your old childoid sidebto trust you....pray or meditation or set intrntions
The resistance is between you and yourself before the trauma. The therapist will just wait patiently and should not interfere between your body and mind if there is a great conflict.

Thank you for this, it feels very true and also very much inline with why we are doing.

Although T asks what she can do to help she also tells me I have to lead the way and that she can’t drag me through this. I believe she is navigating this carefully.

I also think you are right in that I need to connect more to my inner child but again this this something I don’t really know how to do. We have spoken recently about the detachment there and how many of the things I feel I need from T are really things she needs. I feel like I cut her loose a long time ago and now don’t know how to get her back.

 

[susannahsays]

Don't forget, counsellors and therapists are trained to not be shocked by what you say.

I don't think that's part of the training agenda, even if there was a way to go about it. I mean, how exactly would they train them to not be shocked? I think that can only come with experience, and even then, I think it's always a possibility.

If they learn anything, it's probably how to conceal shock.

 

[grit]

At least in my training, we do not learn not to be shocked... actually we learn to accept all feelings with compassion. And if your story shocks the therapist well the therapist should be able to hold the feeling with you. In a nutshell.

 

[New]

And if all fail, beg your old childoid sidebto trust you....pray or meditation or set intrntions
The resistance is between you and yourself before the trauma. The therapist will just wait patiently and should not interfere between your body and mind if there is a great conflict.

Wow! This explains a lot. My T recently moved our appointments to meeting less. It shocked me at first because I don’t think I need to meet less but probably meet more. (She told me to call her if I needed her and that she really wanted me to if I needed help and it wouldn’t bother her. )

I have told her for the last several appointments I wanted to talk only about happy things.

( I really needed help and was struggling but just couldn’t find the words once there and I tend to think if I speak positively it will happen. I also am a people pleaser and like to help others and not bring them down)

Now I know why she reduced our appointments. She is waiting on me.

This does make me feel happy and like I can trust her. I remember being shocked she allowed me to only talk about happy things.

(I thought I did trust her. Hmmmm)

 

[grit]

A lot of these feelings are from your past the let down, can you trust her, she allow you this or that or is doing this TO YOU or such. These are all triggered feelings. The people pleasing, the keeping the charade of positive things so others do not find you heavy or burden, again all sound like a trauma baggage to me.

My earlier post spelling was so bad (my cellphone spell checks in crazy language) so I apologize for its incoherence. But my points were more or less, you must want help and the therapist will give. As long as you think the therapist will do the work is no different than a baby waiting for mommy to give the milk. You will wait forever for the therapist and she will never come because though you and I and the rest of this community are traumatized at some point, our executive function is functional. When our executive function is out of order, we are more likely in psychosis or comma or dissociated to the point we cannot be functional in the society and or may need medication to function in therapy. There are cognition issues but if you are in talk therapy, the first thing they assess is can you do talk therapy? If you pass that already, your function is assessed as able to do that.
So now we get that out of the way, as long as you are able to pay, show up on time, choose (consciously or unconsciously) not share your story, not trust the process, you are exercising your inner side that is exiled from your inner world. You think you are being protective of the self (and you are like you were when the trauma happened to you) but today in the here and now, either you are being in avoidance or you are still in shock and scared as you were then. Until something clicks FOR YOU, you will stay that way. Everybody is different. The therapists do not do the job. They give us space to talk outloud so another person can hear us and say I get you, I am here with you and you see yourself as you truly are...good, bad and the ugly and start to accept and maybe start to love it...
One of the things you can do, is become curious why you are not moving along? Keep asking why and something may click for you and open the door for real trauma work.

Even talking about what is positive in your life in therapy is great if you are doing consciously (not to please or brag or avoid). you could be doing it for strengthening whatever resilience you may have had to survive so long. Sometimes we need to strengthen something within us in order to withstand when the storm comes. So everything you are doing in therapy is either creating a barrier or plodding you closer to trust to yourself and process stuck memories.

 

[Tinyflame]

I think you have to choose to trust or not, and deem if that's a good gamble. And realize the distinct difference with whom it is, and with whom it's not. And remove or reduce negative influences around you. For me, I realize that that just makes my thoughts about myself or healing nose-dive, :(

@grit , re: ''either you are being in avoidance or you are still in shock and scared as you were then", sometimes, feeling that way is somewhat warranted, in the now. But sometimes if lucky, it isn't. Thank you for that reminder.