That Turned Me From A Victim Into A Perpetrator...

[Anarchy]

Ok, it was a deliberately provocative clickbait title:cp:
but it did catch your attention:cool:

are there things that you have realised that, actually, it's not the outside world doing it to poor helpless you

- it's you perpetrating the suffering on yourself, and you can damned well change that?

or that the person who you've been exhausting yourself supporting :banghead:, could actually manage to find their own feet, if you'd only give them the opportunity to leave their well attended pity party to look for them :whistling:

What are your experiences of suddenly recognising your own baggage, and picking it up?

and what are your experiences of realizing that it's someone else's baggage, and quietly leaving it alone for them to discover?

and how do you leave it alone - when you are faced with the dilemna that if you touch it - you are being enabling,
and the :singing:claims of victimhood that you'll get if you don't enable?

 

[Anarchy]

It's from old fashioned crackly vinyl too

 

[Recovery4Me]

Listening, slightly taken aback. Anger vibes (? ) as well as some heavy considerations, yes? Whatz up...what happened that has you so steely?

(((hugs)))

 

[St.Maybe]

What are your experiences of suddenly recognising your own baggage, and picking it up?

I had a self-defining moment (I'd term it a 'recalling') a bit after my last birthday. I decided to eliminate several factors in my life that contributed to my ill health, including a job where I was routinely re-traumatized. I made healing a top priority and spent my time and efforts on nurturing my spirit and getting back to my roots. I got stronger. I didn't notice it at first but in time I was able to look at things differently. Instead of feeling like my whole sense of self was engulfed when I encountered those things that send me to the ground with my arms over my head...I became able to kind of "step back" and observe my drama (though let's be real, I'd still be on the ground with the feels). After becoming I guess just more aware of myself and what I'm doing it became easier for me to make conscious decisions and efforts to spare other people my crazy.

and what are your experiences of realizing that it's someone else's baggage, and quietly leaving it alone for them to discover?

and how do you leave it alone - when you are faced with the dilemna that if you touch it - you are being enabling,
and the :singing:claims of victimhood that you'll get if you don't enable?

Still a work in progress... I think we hashed out a bit of this today, I thank you :)


It took an internal change to demand external change, in my case. I carried someone else's baggage until I made a conscious effort to heal my own wounds and the work began taking effect... my perspective changed, and I slowly came to see that dance of manipulation and enabling playing out to the same old tune in several different scenarios. I'm still bit-by-bit recognizing my dance roles and learning how to quit getting swept up in the patterns.

It's hard, to sit still through the rhythm.

 

[Recovery4Me]

Philosophy of suffering is offered within the Second Noble Truth of Buddha, which I am sure you know.:notworthy:
http://www.pbs.org/edens/thailand/buddhism.htm

and how do you leave it alone - when you are faced with the dilemna that if you touch it - you are being enabling,
and the :singing:claims of victimhood that you'll get if you don't enable?

Boundaries are taught on line in 12 Steps for Codependence Anonymous or found in many good books available at Kindle.

and what are your experiences of realizing that it's someone else's baggage, and quietly leaving it alone for them to discover?

This is taught at our local airports with Homeland Security. The concept is the same as baggage is baggage- only mule if you are willing to pay the price.:clown:

Otherwise...I am sorry if you are feeling pain and will listen if and when you wish to share. Namaste.

 

[ladee]

I always thought it was mine to carry. Learning what wasn't mine and isn't mine, is still a work in progress. Learning my load didn't have to be so heavy. And for each thing I handed back or simply put down, things became more healing centered. Learning that my self worth was not about not allowing others to have their own dignity in healing them selves..... or not. It was about loving them enough to understand that it's not my journey. I have my own. I have always said, and I don't know where this came from... but 'Lead me, follow me, or get the f*ck out of my way'.... meaning... teach me, or learn from me, but do not stand in my way of self healing.

My son has been my best teacher in not picking up the pain, to perpetuate my own. I am a mom... Ohhh the mistakes I made... ya, un huh, and? So learning to stop, step back, real far back, let it go. over and over again, until that is more my go to response than, 'hey, let me fix that for you', when I wasn't asked, or invited even... Of course he is doing much better now, but no regrets, part of that was my healing too.

Letting go simply means, letting go of the end result... still loving myself and the other person, but being very clear, I didn't break it and I can't fix it... my parents never made amends to me as I did my son... they did not lay them selves across the railroad track to martyr them selves as I finally pictured myself doing...Thinking if I could fix HIM, then somehow I wouldn't have to do the work on myself, because all would be healed and happy in my little unconscious world.

We are so unclear what love looks like, or feels like, so we just glom onto whatever doesn't hurt, until it does. My load is doable today. His load is his. And love him from a more healthy place today. For both of us.

I don't feel you are upset @Anarchy, just giving us something to think about. To gauge if we have grown. Or to wake up. Great topic !!! Thanks for giving me something positive to look at in my journey, instead of .... O M G... there's more work to do ?????? :eek::eek::eek::eek::):hug:

 

[Ronin]

It's not 'victim vs perpetrator' line that's defining to me.

I dance across it pretty daily.

My defining moments are more like 'Dangit, why am I spending time on this nonsense, there's things entirely outside of that dynamic'.

 

[Anarchy]

I got the victim into perpetrator bit from T this week;

it is me who chooses to be alone, isolate and to freeze up and not do things

it is me who chooses to stay around an unsafe family

it's me who chooses to be too insecure embarrassed and frightened to talk about pay

it is me who chooses to not assert my boundaries with family and narcs (and narcs in the family)

 

[Ronin]

Well, there's always the question of 'and what are the other choices available'.

They may not be takeable ones.

(I really don't know how I feel about things that, even though phrased empowering, can be easily turned into victim blaming.
So just throwing that out there, things are so case-by-case, often situation-by-situation, basis. To not recognize it isn't helpful.)

 

[ladee]

@Cashew, don't know if it's so black and white. When we stay in our trauma, and can't or won't do the work to have some kind of life, aren't we replaying what the perpetrators did to us?.... This is a question.
If, once I learn there are other ways to do things, to get good results, as opposed to what most of us know, no matter how many times we have to go back to the core issues to start to resolve and heal some things, those that can be healed, isn't that perpetuating the abuse if we stay stuck?... again a question... not clear on this myself.. would appreciate your and @Anarchy's input.

 

[Ronin]

When we stay in our trauma,

Oh, not saying people should do that, at all.

Just saying putting it as 'everything is your choice' is not accurate to reality.

Everything isn't your choice... but there's still space for choice.
It's just important to deal with how that, however limited, space was used.
And how one plans to use it in the future.

Apologies. Too tied with multiple traumas, here. Can't keep my filters up & can't keep this philosophical.