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" The Laundry Must Be Folded This Way", " The Floor Must Be Mopped That Way"

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@Badger,
Not only is it not OK for IMT to be told how to wear her trousers but also how to shower or wear a belt or any number of things that add up to the "gazillion rules" and all because she does not know the right way to do these things.

That is the key here, gazillions of RULES and the RIGHT way to do things - just sends shudders down my spine thinking about it. I mean showering is just about the most personal thing it is your own space and telling someone how they SHOULD shower is invasive and wrong. It is not just one thing it is another and another and another until you have nothing left of yourself because it is all about doing it by the RULES, his rules. That may be appropriate in the army but it is not the basis of a relationship.
 
It's wonderful that you love and wish to help your hubby. That's natural and shows how lucky he is.

Please know that I am very over sensitive to abuse and manipulation because of my own issues, so my perspective is skewed towards caution. If he truly treats you well, that's great.

My dad was very abusive to all of us, and insisted that everything be done his way or he'd belittle and shame us with invalidating comments, passive-aggressive behavior, and escalating violence. He was excellent at playing the victim and manipulating our perceptions about ourselves with comments like your spouse has made, leaving us feeling stupid, incompetent, and ashamed.

It got progressively worse over the decades. My Mom got so isolated and depressed she literally disappeared into her bedroom for weeks at a time, only dragging herself out when he was coming home to make everything spotless and his idea of perfect. She got cancer, and she knew it but refused to go to the doctor until it was too late. I think she just couldn't take it anymore.

I'm the highest functioning of my siblings, and that's not saying a whole bunch. I was raised to cater to his needs and become a serious co-dependent, spending my time trying to fix others problems, understand them, pity them, etc.

I was raised to think I could read the minds of people who "needed me." I thought I knew what they were thinking & feeling, and what they needed to be fixed. Having a dad who told me his negative feelings and acting out behaviors were all my fault didn't help. Having a co-dependent mom modeling putting all his needs first - no matter how damaging, unsafe, or frightening the situation- didn't help me learn that it's ok to have a self with my own boundaries, needs, wants, and comfort levels.

I found myself in many abusive relationships and always tried to change myself into being what they wanted me to be. It almost killed me.

The thing is, I had never experienced what a healthy relationship felt like. I didn't know that a healthy, loving person never belittles one's intelligence. That being with them rarely causes emotional pain from their words or actions. That I didn't have to walk on eggshells in my own home constantly just to accommodate his issues. That love means feeling safe and relaxed and valued without conditions. That it is possible and actually feels good to be in a home where small issues are kept small and big issues are just challenges that we can deal with together.

Co-dependency is an empathetic person's gift taken to the extreme where boundaries of self are not successfully maintained and self-nurturing progressively disintegrates. A co-dependent lives for another human being but at a high cost of giving up their own friends, hobbies, interests, time...essentially the important parts of life.

Growing up in a controlling environment is emotionally devastating for children. It's very harmful to an adult. Growing up with a co-dependent parent who manipulates everyone else to appease the controlling personality is just as bad, if not worse. A co-dependent expends much energy manipulating people, places, and things based upon the bizarre belief that we have some godlike power of easing the inner feelings of the controlling person.

An abusive person tries to indoctrinate a co-dependent into following their rules instead of allowing flexibility. They don't do it quickly or in such a manner as to alarm their target or the person they are drawing in would clearly notice. A little belittling here, a little gas-lighting there...some passive-aggressive push-pull, all the while giving intermittent rewards of affection, presents, and other rewards is all it takes. A person begins to doubt their own feelings and thoughts. Whether consciously or unconsciously, abusers are able to use sensitive, caring, empathetic people's good hearts against them to their own benefit. They may have no bad intentions but not realize that others have the right to live their own lives as they wish.

Whenever we believe we have the power to make anyone feel or think anything, it is not true. We can try, but human beings will think and feel based upon what is inside them, regardless of our efforts. If he tries to act like he's disappointed to the point of tears over a simple household chore, the problem isn't the chore.

There is a test whether or not a comment or behavior is abusive, and that is the sunlight test. Meaning, if other people in our life saw that behavior or heard that comment, would they find it odd, mean, rude, or over the top? If that situation were to happen in public, would I feel embarrassed, ashamed, fearful? If so, then something is not right. I'm not talking about the regular private things we'd rather not have shared, such as needing a new undergarment. But anything negative directed at us as a person.

Abusive people generally are quite different in public than they are in private. Healthy, stable people are generally consistent no matter where they are, though they may wear different hats.

There is a huge difference between saying "I prefer to have the floor kept tidy" and "You need to keep the floor tidy to the extremely particular standards, and here's the 27 steps in the exact order you need to do it in, or you'll make me angry/hurt/sad."

Hopefully it's the former. But if it ever becomes the latter, please know there is help available for both of you, and it's never too late to seek it out.
 
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The thing is, I had never experienced what a healthy relationship felt like. I didn't know that a healthy, loving person never belittles one's intelligence. That being with them rarely causes emotional pain from their words or actions. That I didn't have to walk on eggshells in my own home constantly just to accommodate his issues. That love means feeling safe and relaxed and valued without conditions. That it is possible and actually feels good to be in a hope where small issues are kept small and big issues are just challenges that we can deal with together.

@BloomInWinter Wow shaking again, I can relate to so much. You just wrote so eloquently and explained it so well. Thank you for writing this
 
@BloomInWinter what you wrote was amazing. I remember when I first woke up all the doubts I had and I was so entrenched in that mentality so used to abuse and it being my fault and his manipulation and gaslighting and that I was hurting him. Constantly questioning myself, is it him or is it really me? I am so useless like he said of course he is right.

Now I can look back and see exactly what was going on, but when I read things like what you wrote it is a trigger but it is also a reminder that I made the right decision. I could still be there like your mother. That is what was happening to me, I was getting more and more down and I have saved my kids from that too.

It is hard now because I have to learn to become myself but before I was becoming a nothing, I was dying inside myself.
 
Lizio, you mention that you have children, I do too. Mine are 3 and 7, and I'll Make Tea mentioned that she had a child too, Having a young child makes you more vulnerable in these situations because it is so very hard to leave them. The economic instability of being out on your own with young children is daunting to have to face, especially if they are not school age. I put up with a lot more then I normally would from my ex and I think he took me a lot more for granted because he thought I would never leave. Children make people assume there is permanence in a situation.

What I would add to this and this is not to suggest you are at this point in your relationship, is don't make money, or even more binding, the expectation that your child would be hurt by divorce, the reason for staying. I wanted my kids to have their mother and their father in the same house until I realized that a mentally unhealthy me was no solution to the situation at all, because I couldnt be a parent if I was depressed and continuing to live in a self esteem nightmare. Kids need their mom to be as emotionally healthy as she can be, that has to be a first priority for me.
 
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How it would go in my house:

Me: Do you think I really give two $hits if people judge me on what I wear? I judge people by how they treat others- as it should be. I've seen men in $3,000 suits walk by a homeless man with no legs, and ignore the disabled man's coin cup. Whenever I see that, I have more respect for the homeless.

Him: (says nothing).
 
IMT's reaction is typical of an abused person. She wants to understand his behavior so that the situation improves. She wants us to explain it in terms of PTSD so that she can understand it. News flash. This isn't PTSD. We can't explain his controlling arse-hole-ish behavior in terms of PTSD because it isn't PTSD. If this isn't one of the biggest red flags of abuse, then I don't know what is.

It's a huge fallacy to think that abuse only comes in the form of screaming and shouting. Some of the worst forms of abuse are the most subtle.

I know that OCD involves compulsions to control the obsessions, but this seems to cross the line outside of OCD. That is, the compulsions are personal actions that we have control over (cleaning, etc) in order to fix the obsessions rather than trying to control everyone around us.
 
I'll make tea.....I agree with Lizio... He's using his "experience" to justify his controlling behavior. He's your partner, not your father. You appear to be perfectly capable of managing the consequences of your clothing choices. You don't need him to protect you from your clothing. My ex husband was 2 1/2 years older than me. He wasn't like this with clothing but most of everything else. Looking back, I can see how the little digs at my competence undermined my self esteem and contributed to an increase in negative self talk.
 
The thing is, everything is negotiable, if people are willing to negotiate. It seems like it would be to his benefit to learn that at least some of the time, some people find his comments to be hurtful, or excessive, over the top, above his pay grade, or what ever they are, besides helpful. And, what they "are" is going to depend on how the person on the receiving end receives them. IMT gets to receive them however she really does. She gets to pass that information on. He gets to receive her information however HE does and pass his responses back to her. Everyone gets to listen, everyone gets to be heard. At least, that's my perception of how a good relationship is supposed to work.

It's really tempting to read all of this through the filter of our own experiences. Like I said earlier, my mom was something of a control freak and there actually probably WAS no way anything would be "right" unless she did it herself. Then I went and married a guy who was ALSO a control freak, although in a somewhat different way. It's easy for me to see this relationship through the lens of my own experiences and assume IMT's husband is just like the people in my life. But, it's also possible he doesn't know how he comes across but CARES. It's also possible that the truth is something else. My suggestion is, it would be worth finding out, if you're planning on staying in the relationship.

I DO agree with some of the comments about red flags. It's possible that IMT is a person who is really curious about how other people experience things and wants to learn for that reason. It's possible that she's co-dependent. It's possible that the truth is something else. All of it is food for thought!
 
I know for myself... I have "picked" partners, relationships even friendships... because I have (as we all do) a predisposition for the "familiar".

But personally I view it as an opportunity to work things through and stay in accord (keep the relationship if possible physical threats not withstanding).
 
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