Relationship "The other person" in a CPTSD relationship

[hypervigilant]

To be clear I think cptsd people are amazing, they almost have a "lucky" injury which allows them to integrate spirituality to earth.

A lot of generalisations in your statements but this one is the one that always boils my p!ss.
None of us think it was a gift, a load only we could carry or any other thing people dream up to feel better about us. Yes I'm stronger, yes im resilient, yes I've seen, experienced things you cannot imagine but to think I would or could have asked for it in any way, shape or form it's victim shaming at its worst.
Vent over.

 

[Roland]

Thanks for replying!

I'm sort of responding with some caution, because I've basically completely moved on from the situation now (and I don't want to revisit it in my thoughts anymore). But I still get notifications here if someone posts something, and I'm interested!

So - if you don't mind me asking - what's it like?

I don't want to think in this way anymore, but for a while I was caught in confusion about just who was standing in front of me.

Here's a girl in front of me, and she always looks kind of the same -

But her posture changes, she has a lisp sometimes and not others, her walking style changes, her face stays the same but somehow it changes too (I find it hard to describe).

And she wants to pray together one minute, and threatens to "beat the sh*t" out of me a little later... and then afterwards doesn't really seem to remember; and instead bursts into dysregulated tears...

With other people, she can be fun, charismatic and charming... the minute the front door closes, she's someone different again...

She lies about things my family said to her to draw a reaction from me...

But at the same time insists she wants to be there for me and to care for me etc etc...

There's a lot about her past that she wouldn't tell me 'unless we got married' - and yet she told me horrible trauma stories after a date or two...


I'm not sure what's dissociation in what I'm describing and what isn't; but I can't imagine what it'd be like to experience that.

And I found it hard to understand because she was the same human being in front of me... but also... she was different... how does a person make sense of *that*?

So I can't speak to her and what all she has going on personality-wise. So please understand I'm not trying to diagnose her. I have personality splitting and some quotes and contradictions that she has I can definitely relate to with having personality splitting.

So personality splitting is basically multiple personality "lite version". I am aware of my personality splits but they are not full on characters with names, separate identities etc. All of them are me. I can feel when I shift to a different side of myself. What triggers me to "shift" is specific situations and really anything that may trigger me, which I can't really foresee. I'm not particularly complicated, I just have my "adult dominant self", my wounded inner child, and some kind of asshole/clown/narcissist take your pick in terms.

My dad abused me in many ways including sexually from a very young age (3 years old maybe younger). I assume he had narcissistic personality disorder but he didn't ever see a psychologist that I'm aware of. But I couldn't see him as an enemy since he was my dad so my inner child split off and the narcissist split was just mirroring his behaviors back to him in order to protect my inner child. I'm not sure all of this makes sense but I was just explaining the mechanism.

So in real life, if I feel threatened by something (maybe a man, group of people, etc) my narcissist split will decide to run the show because my inner child split feels vulnerable. Sometimes say like it's at a party with a lot of people and I feel threatened and my narcissist split decides to do her thing (verbally attacking people, acting loud, extroverted/center of attention). Sometimes someone I trust like my mom or brother have been like "Hey you need to calm down" or "Hey you're being an asshole" and I completely shatter. Like I realize I don't want to act like that and then I get like wanting to self harm/masochism/despair. THEN I'll be the wounded child, crying/wanting to hide/vulnerable etc.

I do my best to stay in control. Sometimes at parties I will step outside when I feel I'm starting to act out. I'll leave early, etc. I'm not really out of control but my personality splits are "at the forefront"? My adult, calm, collected, somewhat reserved "normal" self is "in the back".

I remember what I've done and said in any part of myself, but each part has different personality traits and motivations. So it's hard to act the same or act in better ways if there's a split with a lot of dark/negative traits and motivations.

Someone with multiple personality disorder may not remember things they did or said. Some people can't access different parts, I don't really know what that's like or what your ex's experience was like.

 

[Sideways]

So personality splitting is basically multiple personality "lite version".

Personality splitting is typical in both dissociative disorders and BPD (at least, of the personality disorders). They are different and complex experiences, sometimes caused by trauma but not always.
ETA: in case that’s helpful:)

 

[Roland]

Personality splitting is typical in both dissociative disorders and BPD (at least, of the personality disorders). They are different and complex experiences, sometimes caused by trauma but not always.
ETA: in case that’s helpful:)

I think a lot of disorders (personality disorders, bipolar, cptsd) can also have personality splitting as long as the person experienced trauma from a young age. Yes, it is complex, lots of people have trauma but don't end up splitting or having cptsd, etc, it all depends on genetic factors and environmental factors both, and probably some other things we aren't aware of yet.

 

[Anon1]

So I can't speak to her and what all she has going on personality-wise. So please understand I'm not trying to diagnose her. I have personality splitting and some quotes and contradictions that she has I can definitely relate to with having personality splitting.

So personality splitting is basically multiple personality "lite version". I am aware of my personality splits but they are not full on characters with names, separate identities etc. All of them are me. I can feel when I shift to a different side of myself. What triggers me to "shift" is specific situations and really anything that may trigger me, which I can't really foresee. I'm not particularly complicated, I just have my "adult dominant self", my wounded inner child, and some kind of asshole/clown/narcissist take your pick in terms.

My dad abused me in many ways including sexually from a very young age (3 years old maybe younger). I assume he had narcissistic personality disorder but he didn't ever see a psychologist that I'm aware of. But I couldn't see him as an enemy since he was my dad so my inner child split off and the narcissist split was just mirroring his behaviors back to him in order to protect my inner child. I'm not sure all of this makes sense but I was just explaining the mechanism.

So in real life, if I feel threatened by something (maybe a man, group of people, etc) my narcissist split will decide to run the show because my inner child split feels vulnerable. Sometimes say like it's at a party with a lot of people and I feel threatened and my narcissist split decides to do her thing (verbally attacking people, acting loud, extroverted/center of attention). Sometimes someone I trust like my mom or brother have been like "Hey you need to calm down" or "Hey you're being an asshole" and I completely shatter. Like I realize I don't want to act like that and then I get like wanting to self harm/masochism/despair. THEN I'll be the wounded child, crying/wanting to hide/vulnerable etc.

I do my best to stay in control. Sometimes at parties I will step outside when I feel I'm starting to act out. I'll leave early, etc. I'm not really out of control but my personality splits are "at the forefront"? My adult, calm, collected, somewhat reserved "normal" self is "in the back".

I remember what I've done and said in any part of myself, but each part has different personality traits and motivations. So it's hard to act the same or act in better ways if there's a split with a lot of dark/negative traits and motivations.

Someone with multiple personality disorder may not remember things they did or said. Some people can't access different parts, I don't really know what that's like or what your ex's experience was like.

Thanks for sharing that - I appreciate it!

I understand that you wouldn't be able to speak to my ex's experience (given that you're different people who haven't even met etc); but it's helpful just to hear what it can look like in some people sometimes.

I actually relate to what you were saying about the narcissist/wounded child shift -

I remember after my ex threatened a couple of different things at different times - if I gently challenged what she'd said/if I asked her why she'd said it - she'd break down in tears and seem unable to stop for a while. She'd then talk about how her trauma had impacted her etc; and I'd end up comforting her a lot...

She'd seem very vulnerable in those times. I sometimes wondered if she was crying to deflect from the nasty things she'd just said; but perhaps that's not true - maybe she was 'shifting parts'.

[The trouble with someone telling you they could manipulate you; is that you're then always wondering if they're trying to do that (which makes it hard to trust them or take things on face value - I often found myself looking for an ulterior motive... not in an 'over the top way', I don't think - I was just a bit wary of it at times).]

Anyway - I'm not sure if the example I just gave is actually the same type of thing that you're saying, so I don't mean to presume anything; it just *sounds* a bit similar to me (but of course I'm no expert).

It must feel different to the usual types of 'mood shift' though, I'd guess?

I - for example - can act a certain way when I'm hungry (like most people); and then the minute I eat, I suddenly go back to normal and feel a bit embarrassed about being grumpy or whatever it is.

You must be describing something very definitely different?

I'm just trying to kinda... imagine it - but perhaps it's something that you have to experience!

Thanks again - I'm not so much asking to make sense of my ex, as I am just because it's interesting; and the internet is cool enough to allow me to speak to lots of different people, which I'm curious about.

But as far as my ex goes - what you've said seems to chime in with what my therapist has suspected (although our sessions have focussed mostly on me and my responses etc). My therapist has suggested that it sounds as though my ex had very definite 'parts'. Though of course - if the person doesn't have a conversation with you about that; it's kind of hard to figure out - and it feels a lot like you're trying to guess what's going, the whole time...

 

[hypervigilant]

Thanks for your insights Roland. I can certainly resonate with much that you said. I have the quiet invisible inner child, and a rebel of a confrontational teenager that pops out on protection mode if I feel threatened and more easy go with the flow. There was a point about 5 years back that the rebel teenager took over for a about 10 months and ran the show, I started smoking again after 30 years and was a wake up to quite a few people as my boundaries were very clear.
I did question whether it was Something like DID but my therapist said it was more learned behaviours and self defense, protection. I was at the beginning of unravelling the extent of abuse and so it made sense.
My personal view is that I had to be a chameleon, I wasn't allowed to unhappy, sullen, in pain etc. Mother needed for me to be happy so I was to survive. These emotions have to go somewhere so once I got autonomy at 16 I felt everything loudly.
I had to adapt to surroundings, read the moods and act accordingly for so long that freedom tasted so much sweeter.
It was solely about survival and I probably wouldn't be here without them.
I didn't know how to label my emotions so it's easier to label inner child when shy, quiet, compliant, teenager when argumentative and forthright and just me when I'm more adult and aware.
It's normal to flip I think in the case of trauma it can be more acute.

 

[Roland]

Thanks for sharing that - I appreciate it!

I understand that you wouldn't be able to speak to my ex's experience (given that you're different people who haven't even met etc); but it's helpful just to hear what it can look like in some people sometimes.

I actually relate to what you were saying about the narcissist/wounded child shift -

I remember after my ex threatened a couple of different things at different times - if I gently challenged what she'd said/if I asked her why she'd said it - she'd break down in tears and seem unable to stop for a while. She'd then talk about how her trauma had impacted her etc; and I'd end up comforting her a lot...

She'd seem very vulnerable in those times. I sometimes wondered if she was crying to deflect from the nasty things she'd just said; but perhaps that's not true - maybe she was 'shifting parts'.

[The trouble with someone telling you they could manipulate you; is that you're then always wondering if they're trying to do that (which makes it hard to trust them or take things on face value - I often found myself looking for an ulterior motive... not in an 'over the top way', I don't think - I was just a bit wary of it at times).]

Anyway - I'm not sure if the example I just gave is actually the same type of thing that you're saying, so I don't mean to presume anything; it just *sounds* a bit similar to me (but of course I'm no expert).

It must feel different to the usual types of 'mood shift' though, I'd guess?

I - for example - can act a certain way when I'm hungry (like most people); and then the minute I eat, I suddenly go back to normal and feel a bit embarrassed about being grumpy or whatever it is.

You must be describing something very definitely different?

I'm just trying to kinda... imagine it - but perhaps it's something that you have to experience!

Thanks again - I'm not so much asking to make sense of my ex, as I am just because it's interesting; and the internet is cool enough to allow me to speak to lots of different people, which I'm curious about.

But as far as my ex goes - what you've said seems to chime in with what my therapist has suspected (although our sessions have focussed mostly on me and my responses etc). My therapist has suggested that it sounds as though my ex had very definite 'parts'. Though of course - if the person doesn't have a conversation with you about that; it's kind of hard to figure out - and it feels a lot like you're trying to guess what's going, the whole time...

So I guess what I would say (best I can explain) is it's more than a mood shift. My behavior, posture, motivations, personality traits (introversion, extroversion, outgoing or withdrawn etc) shift, often in a completely opposite extreme as my "normal self".

 

[Sig]

Hey guys,

I had a little knock back after finding out my ex with CPTSD is engaged to another guy, five/six or so months after saying she'd like to get back together with me.

I will get over that and move forward again, but while chewing things over, I had a thought and I wondered if anyone has any insight into it.

I wondered if my ex ever *really* saw me as a separate person, and I wondered if this would be a symptom of some people's CPTSD?

I threaded some things together, which might be drawing links where none exist, but they are:

- Talking about manipulation a lot - when she first kissed me, she muttered into my ear something about her 'manipulative girlish ways', which I thought was a strange joke or quirky pillow talk at the time(!) She also told me 'I could manipulate the sh*t out of you to move here, but I wont...'. And made jokes about her dad being wrapped around her finger etc.

- She made off the cuff comments now and then, saying things like 'I love that you're like my Ken doll that I can dress you up in different clothes when we go shopping, and you'll just wear them' (Which was strange, because we'd never been clothes shopping, and I'm actually quite particular about what I wear...)

- She was desperate for kids, and one of the main reasons she gave (possibly the only one actually) was 'they regulate me'.

- She said that in her younger years, she wanted kids but didn't want a husband - and only wanted to marry because you needed a man to have a child (she said "later I realised that it would be nice to have a husband too").

- A few weeks before we broke up, she said "I think I'd like to date other guys because I'm not sure what I want in a man". I told her I understood, but that I'd also be dating other girls if she did that. She was shocked, and immediately retracted the statement. Later she said "When you said that, I realised I didn't want it." - But I was amazed she was surprised... as though she expected me to just kinda... be 'on pause' while she did what she liked...

There was more than that too - just... general behaviours... general expectations... ways of relating... I didn't realise at the time exactly what it was, but now I wonder if she saw me as separate to her; or as an extension of her, there to fulfill her needs.


Further to that... I still find it so hard to understand how she can be so devoted to her faith... and have the qualities of genuine humility (she once asked an older lady at church what to look for in a husband, and the lady replied "Don't look for the charismatic man at a party, look for the one who stops to put the chairs away at the end of the night"). She journaled a lot, and studied her Bible... she had all these notes in it, underlined and highlighted...


There were things about her that were so easy to fall for... I sometimes wondered if they were performative, or mixed in with selfish motives... but I can't believe that they ALWAYS were...


Well... just wondered if anyone has any perspective on this.


[I may delete this post in a few days - I don't like the idea that she might stumble across it one day - it's more specific to us than some of my previous posts have been]

She’s a narcissist. I have cptsd and can assure you this woman does not. She’s a manipulator, people with cptsd are very triggered by manipulation, they don’t engage in it.

 

[Sweetpea76]

She’s a narcissist. I have cptsd and can assure you this woman does not. She’s a manipulator, people with cptsd are very triggered by manipulation, they don’t engage in it.

There is no way to know that for sure. Manipulators get PTSD too.

 

[hypervigilant]

she definitely has narcissistic traits. She saw you as a thing to do with as she wished not a human being in your own right. Narcissistic behaviour can come from trauma so she can realistically also have ptsd buts it's not the reason for her manipulation.
I feel your need to analyse her behaviours and make sense of her treatment of you. It's very common after narcissistic abuse and there are some great books on the subject. It wasn't your fault and you are lucky to have escaped. Read up and chalk it down to experience it will in the long time help you recognise traits in others.

 

[Friday]

She saw you as a thing to do with as she wished not a human being in your own right

<cough> Mindreading.
<cough> Jumping to conclusions.
<cough> Projection/Transferance.

You read a few words of one persons descriptions/thoughts/conclusions about ANOTHER person, entirely.

And, as such, having never even met/observed the other person to form your own opinions (however rightly or wrongly) you feel confidant & secure enough to describe their innermost thoughts/feelings/motivations???

Shall I tell you how someone you know really thinks and feels about you, and why? That would be insulting at best, wouldn’t it?

 

[Jade-]

Hey @Anon1

​

In reading through your posts/threads to get a better understanding I kinda really feel bad for you.

It sounds like you two were only together like 6 or 7 months? Yet you're having such a hard time letting go and moving on from her. And that you're not over her.

It also sounds like you're having a hard time accepting that it ended, why it ended and how it ended and are trying so hard to understand. Like maybe you're hoping if you can understand things might be able to work out eventually?

IDK, but I read this on FB "imagine being bitten by a snake and instead of focusing on healing from the poison you chase the sanke to understand why it bit you and to prove you didn't deserve it". Maybe it;s time to focus on healing rather than trying to understand why things went the way they did?