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Therapy Difficulties - Online Therapy An Option?

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Hi pencil!
after a session, not recall everything
If you feel inclined would you give an example? I have been trying to pluck up the courage to start a thread about how big this problem is for me. Sadly written word does not necessarily stop it as it has happened that way too.

slow introduction
I have to say there is a part of me that sees that is possible and from when Leah suggested it I have felt that. And I will admit that it has freaked me out! ;-) As I have become a little comfortable in the fact that therapy is not presently possible. There is a part of me that needs to evaluate the risks carefully and properly, a part that feels a little relief that some help may be possible, and then a part that wants it to be wrong so that I don't have to step into the lions den.

a little more email contact that I'm beginning to feel safe.
Thanks for sharing. Theoretically I can see the advantage of having a little figurative distance when both closeness and lack of contact are problematic. Having this conversation would not have been possible even a month ago so I should be grateful.

wouldn't you need face to face therapy after a while?
I would never see online therapy as the final word for me. Not with my issues. It is also possible I may find it upsetting in some ways. If I do it it will be a means of getting me into face to face therapy eventually. I am also likely to go quite insane deciding what to say and if I am telling the truth as I go along. Not an easy decision.

There are some practical concerns I still have. And some deeper ones that relate to theory. For me.
 
Re: being perceived, etc., I meant a couple things.

There were times I just didn't want to be looked at even though the therapist wasn't looking at me funny or anything. I went thru periods when I felt inherently offensive and that I emanated some kind of ineffable stench of the soul (not any actual smell - I tended to always be soap smelling and hygienic to a fault!) and felt that my very existence in space undermined the well being of anyone in my vicinity - whether the therapist or a stranger on an elevator.

I was also simultaneously aware that this was in reality absolutely false.

But the conflict between what I knew and what I felt was so extreme that my level of discomfort simply sitting with the therapist was nearly unbearable. I couldn't relax because I was kind of trying not to breathe, trying to exist "less", which of course is impossible so it was very stressful.

Ironically, the physical looks of me were such that some therapists (the lesser ones) couldn't believe I had any problems, that I was exaggerating symptoms. One shrink who was the head of a big time suburban hospital where I had been committed actually said - you have a boyfriend, you have a college education, you're pretty- there's nothing wrong with you. These therapists of course should never have been in the business.

I began losing my hearing in grade school, but because I lost the lower and middle frequencies and not the high frequency, there were no hearing aids to help me until my 40's when the programmed digital came along. I cannot tell you how many times I heard in my life before I got hearing aids - but you don't look deaf!

Because of the denial of what went on as a kid, I still go a little nuts when people deny my reality. I have felt judged by my persona and look, and not heard many many times. Not always but enough where I would consider online before face to face next time around.

I am so glad you blogged about this subject. So many thought provoking comments and insight. Thank you!
 
There were times I just didn't want to be looked at even though the therapist wasn't looking at me funny or anything. I went thru periods when I felt inherently offensive and that I emanated some kind of ineffable stench of the soul (not any actual smell - I tended to always be soap smelling and hygienic to a fault!) and felt that my very existence in space undermined the well being of anyone in my vicinity - whether the therapist or a stranger on an elevator.

I was also simultaneously aware that this was in reality absolutely false.
Oh, thank you thank you THANK YOU for saying this - this is exactly what I go through, but have never had the courage to say it!
 
Franciemarnie, your description of your struggle with mere existence gave me chills, such is the depth of my ability to relate. I couldn't have said it half as well, and can't "like it enough. I think this point classically illustrates why in-person therapy is, simultaneously, almost unbearably difficult, yet critically important. But then, I think we're all in agreement about that. The issue is in finding the path to get there...

Abstract, gosh, as I've been reading this wonderful thread, I've been forming this image in my mind of the therapeutic scenario/relationship that I can just imagine as being ideal for you. Not that I have any right or ability to presume of course, and I hope so much that it's not offensive or pushy of me to say so, but I can absolutely envisage you beginning work with a therapist, in person, who was prepared to just spend time with you, regularly and reliably, just learning how to "do" the relationship. If that meant that you spoke only about the weather and the state of the traffic for 47 out of the 50 minutes, or perhaps just for the remaining 3 of those minutes, then that would be fine. Then perhaps you'd graduate to talking about current life struggles - the basic kind - and some of your coping and stress management strategies and techniques. There would be a huge emphasis on establishing safe and mutual communication, leading to issues of safety in relationships, personal safety and stability, recognizing/awareness of emotions and their impact, etc.

At some point, perhaps after a month, or 3 months, you might think about discussing trauma. Or perhaps not for a year. Or perhaps it would feel right to do so after a fortnight. The pacing and timing would be yours to dictate. Yes, on the surface that would require the therapist to adopt the much-taboo "paid friend" role for a time, until you were safe and ready to progress beyond this. And you know what? Who cares! It's our money being paid for the service, and if this is what you needed, then that's fine.

I write and think about this with reference to my own situation, for which I am thankful every day, and with which I know I was unspeakably blessed at a time in my life when regular therapy and a standard therapeutic relationship would have been impossible for me. For months, my therapist just kept pace with my largely silent and evasive contributions to the process, meeting me regularly, establishing rapport with me, talking about what I wanted to talk about, showing me kindness and consistency and absolutely no pressure to say or do anything I didn't want to. He kept pace with me, but always half a step behind, allowing me to lead us, sometimes unconsciously, to where I was ready to go.

Time was on my side. So was my therapist. He knew that the only path to my truths was a long one, and he had the patience and, for some reason, the motivation, to stick with me. It was months, literally, before I even disclosed I had a trauma background, let alone its contents. For months I could really only write about my trauma, and e-mail it to him, and then gradually I could find the ability to speak about it afterwards when he already had a lot of the detail in writing. I could hide behind my writings, yet also use them to gradually coax myself out of the shadows to speak. This gave me both the luxury of anonymity and the safety and validation of in-person support. I couldn't have progressed without either.

99% of the population of the world don't have this unspeakable luxury, and I am painfully aware of it. It was unconventional in every sense of the word. Some may even say unethical, though I would viciously disagree.

But what I do know without a shadow of a doubt is that I would never have progressed any other way. I would never have spoken about my trauma or begun the path to processing it, because I never would have found the trust in myself, or in someone else, much less the self awareness, ability to articulate and personal insight, to allow me to get there.

Somewhere, in the elusive perfect world, I imagine a similar scenario for you.

I am acutely aware that this has probably been profoundly unhelpful, perhaps even insensitive, but it struck me so vividly as I read of your dilemma that a therapeutic relationship with all of the connectedness and humanity of an in-person relationship, but all of the safety buffers of an online one, sounds like what you might be seeking.

I have no idea in the world how one would go about finding such a relationship, even if it was possible financially, logistically etc. But the more I read of your situation, the more I instinctively feel that it is a very connected in-person relationship that you are seeking, but one which has a degree of flexibility and "space" over and above what would be typical.

I'm going to try to think of something more helpful and doable to say, but just wanted to share that with you... I hope that's ok.
 
If you feel inclined would you give an example?
Not really, as there is a general fogginess associated with this. It happened for instance that I could not remember what was said after the first 15 minutes of a session. Not At All. The therapist often asked me if I remembered having said something or talked about something, and most of the time I could not, until she reminded me. Nothing was lost forever, but I could not remember Anything about it without a reminder.

It also happened that I would get upset about something, but even trying to remember the topic, or words or whatever, I started feeling almost light headed when trying to consciously remember and retrace my steps to that point.
 
One thing that occurs to me in relation to not being able to recall the content of sessions, is the possibility of recording them for later playback. I know that my therapist has indicated that he would be happy for me to do this if I wish. I don't wish, for a variety of reasons that I don't need to go into here, but as a concept I think it's perfectly ok and even a good idea, both in terms of being able to recall and reflect on what is discussed, and as a possible grounding tool or other means of being able to call the therapist ortherapy context to mind more clearly if this is of benefit to you.

I'm sure that different therapists would have different ideas about this, and obviously both parties would have to be in agreement, but it's something to think about.

Maddog
 
I record my sessions now since I dissociate so much I lost the interaction entirely.

Now, I listen to it at a slow pace when I can before my next appointment, and I can get the whole session. It's been tremendously helpful. They don't allow many patients to record sessions, but us trauma patients are allowed to.
 
I love maddog's dream of a therapist for Abstract. Also md's experience in a therapy relationship.

One of the things I would miss without a face to face would be if the therapist was sensitive enough to tell from my body language, slight facial expressions, tone of voice, etc. if I was beginning to disassociate, etc.

I never knew how removed I was from self awareness all of my life until I got married for the first time four years ago, and thus for the first time since I was a kid with my oblivious family lived with someone else. I had no idea for eg. when I was tired. My husband would say you look a little tired and I would say, how can you tell and he would say, your eyes. I would go to a mirror then and see if I could see it because he was always right and I'd end up taking a nap, but I wanted to be able to see me too! Now after a few years, I can "see" me better and I can tell instead of relying on others to tell me my reality, which is what I grew up with.

It's a small thing but representative of my near complete alienation from self..

If I had a good and perceptive therapist, he or she might note these thing and I could learn the signs instead of being surprised by full blown states of emergency.

That said, Mindful meditation has helped enormously that way. Learning how my stomach feels and connecting it to a feeling for eg.

This discussion has really been revelatory.
 
The therapist often asked me if I remembered having said something or talked about something, and most of the time I could not, until she reminded me.
OH, and I forgot to mention that after the reminder, and remembering, I'd forget it AGAIN. When that happened, I remembered that I said something in session 1, in session 2 she reminded me of what we talked about, but I could for the life of me not remember what it was about.
 
Hi Leah!

gone silent
Talking about me: in therapy I can go silent for almost the whole session and only come out after with some effort on the part of the t. That may not happen online but if it did do you have any ideas? Can you see this playing out?

tell her how I'm feeling
This is one of the concerns I have. I sometimes can't say how I feel. I will obviously have to work hard at this.

and be aware of what I *think* is clear, but isn't at all clear to someone outside my head.
Such a true statement! Its a shame isn't it?!

just saying "help"
The concern I have is that if I am not face to face and I am unable to say anything then I could end up in trouble. It is often not just a momentary inability and is rather a case of entering a stage of being unable to do so. Generally the worse I am the less I can say.

self-doubt
Just to be sure I am not waffling I actually wasn't talking about discussing past trauma. In relation to point 7 and the internal battles I mentioned I don't believe the majority of this is related to self doubt in this context. Sometimes I believe it is some internal defence system to stop me from talking or trusting. It feels like being possessed more than anything else. Logical thought and reality testing is greatly impaired. The paradoxical thoughts are all consuming and happen after I share anything. How I feel. Or if I have had a flashback or not. Or if I have PTSD. And the "arguments" with myself have turned physical at times. At least I have more recently managed to discuss some of what happens. Online that is. So going back to No 7, attempting to say if I am in trouble can cause big backlash or internal spinning that results in not being able to say anything.

tolerate ambiguity, and talk about my experience without feeling compelled to justify it.
Its wonderful and inspiring that you can do this. This is not my foremost concern at present as it relates to a part of therapy that is a step ahead of what I will initially be able to address. This is an important conversation for the future though!

Are there songs, stories, or poems that express some of how you feel, or what you struggle with?
I am very cut off from music more recently so not that. When I say I can't express how I feel it is not that I can't find words to express it and rather that I don;t feel safe with someone else knowing. In the past I did not know what I felt but all my hard work has changed that. Therapy or other intense situations cut them off but that is different to the past where I did not understand them on a more pervasive level. I have only fairly recently identified that safety seems to be the core. I don't think expressing it in another form would be any different but I will give it some thought. I love poetry and write bad poems but the idea of sharing any of them is quite frankly terrifying. Anything creative feels more vulnerable than ordinary words.

The unfortunate thing is that a lot of what I seem to need to discuss at this point is about the inner workings of my tiny mind. The only writing I find that expresses that more recently is in psych theory! :bag:

Thanks Leah.
 
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