Relationship This Is For You Daddy

[Anjelica]

I Briefly scanned through this forum looking for a post or thread similar to mine but no luck. Am I alone out here?

I am a lifetime supporter, not of my partner but of my father (R.I.P.)

Growing up, my brother and I experienced from our father a lot of outbursts, yelling, foul language, things breaking, sometimes even seeing mother get shoved out of the way. By the end of the outburst, father is gone, the apartment in a mess, mother standing in the washroom in front of the mirror crying with her mascara running, my brother and I scurrying for a book to pretend we were reading and completely oblivious to what was going on 5 feet away.

Of course we were scared and nervous everytime this happened. It was so repetitive (almost daily) it came to a point where we even started disliking our dad and was really excited and happy to hear when he was coming home late.

He was the kind of man that was scary when he became upset, life and center of attention at gatherings, sensitive when it came to our milestone changes, great cook and the neighborhood watch dog. He never missed anything. Everyone loved him although he was considered to some " a loose cannon " even our mother.

My father grew more and more impatient and frustrated, his fuse shorter and quicker to ignite. Yes, mother started getting really fed up, understandably at that time, after not only the emotional abuse but now physical as well. They decided to seek counseling.

During counseling, he was now diagnosed with PTSD. Against his wishes, he committed to continuous therapy and the episodes starting to subside, but not completely go away. After a few more episodes, mother had him incarcerated and restrain ordered. My brother and I missed him .... but didn't.

The ground zero effect that he now hit, made him determined to change, he wanted to stop fighting and yelling and being abusive, however, according to the PTSD literature, it wasn't up to him. It wasn't an overnight fix. But he was was willing and determined to stick it through and make a difference and put together our family all over again.

A few weeks have passed by and we are really starting to miss him, as I was sure he was feeling the same about us, even through his outbursts, we still loved him. We did counseling with the family therapist and was educated on his conditions and expectations and it's not his fault and that the best thing that we can do for him is to stay by his side, encourage him and support his difficult times. My brother and I could feel his pain and knowing him, he could feel ours too.

But our mother, all of a sudden made some new friends both male and female, which was good for her, but started really giving up on our father. Her friends, without knowing or understanding our father and what he was going through and the recourse of PTSD, began influencing her to stay away, have no contact until he is COMPLETELY better and start dating in the meanwhile, go have fun and live her life ???

As he was torturing himself with frustration trying to cope and understand and get better and make his family one again, respecting boundaries and surprisingly from what our mother was doing to him now and still not getting upset.... Was a major break through for him, for us! But our mother still was encouraged to leave him be :(

A few more weeks had passed by, we really wanted to see him, everything we did and everywhere we went all of a sudden made us having fond memories of him and the negative ones started going away? But again our mother was encouraged and fueled by her peers with nothing for hatred for him. He was really trying hard, but she was just as hard countering it.

A few days later, we received a phone call from his therapist, he was now struggling with depression on top of his PTSD .... he really needed or at least could use some support or a friend. But again, our mother wanted nothing to do with him and after work, his life evolved around us, so no friends. I believe down deep inside, she really did love him, cared for him and genuinely wanted to be with HIM, not the PTSD...... But she was starting to soften up now. She too, was starting to miss him.

The following Monday we received another phone call from his therapist.....

This time, it was tell us that he had committed suicide :(

My brother and I were so devastated. We didn't want anything to do with our mother anymore. We HATED her, she was so selfish and abandoned him in his time of need. He really was trying to be a better person, a better father, a better husband, a better everything !!

It's been 7 years now and still hurts like it was this morning. We have no idea what our mother is doing or where she is. Nor do we give a sh@t! My brother and I took care of each other.

The moral of our story here is that my brother and I obviously wish we were able to make a difference and be there for our father, turn back the time and helped and supported our father through his mental illness. It was just that, a mental illness, not an evil person filled with hatred on a mission aiming to hurt people? He actually tried to get help, but we let him down, gave up on him and pushed him further and deeper away.

Please, For my father, brother and myself ....... If there is someone in your life that is struggling with any mental illness regardless of it being PTSD, Depression, Bipolar, Schizophrenia etc... Please don't give up on them like we did to our father. Please take the time to educate yourself and realize and try to embrace what they are going through. I will say this.... Living with the guilt of neglecting a loved one that ends up taking their life is far worse than simply trying to swallow up those mental illness outbreaks not take it personal and help them to recover.

However, if your relationship with that person is a repetitive life threatening violent situation and you feel like you partner is not capable of loving you or never did and you feel the same way, then that's a different story. But if you can dissect through that mental illness fog and see a potentially happy ending, then tell your partner that you will be there for them. Give them some hope in recovering and a reason to recover.


People are so quick to jump ship nowadays. Don't be a statistic and take the easy way out. If the relationship can be worked out, work it out! You will both be sitting there, alive, watching all your great grandchildren together enjoying the life that you BOTH made possible together.

 

[nursenurse]

I have many things I would like to say to you, first and foremost I am so sorry for everything that has gone on in your young life. You have not only lost a father, but a mother as well.

All of us supporters here have first hand knowledge about the effects of PTSD and other forms of mental illness on our sufferers and on our families. You have to remember that things can be better with PTSD, but they will never be easy, and that happy endings just can't be in the cards for many folks no matter how much love and support are out there.

I cannot comment on what your Mom did while your Dad was away, other than dating while still married, which to me is wrong and indefensible. However, it is clear to me from what you have written that she was emotionally and physically abused, and as children, you would not have been privy to everything that went on, especially behind closed doors. Love conquers all when you are children. It does not as adults, unfortunately. You cannot blame your mother or anyone else for your father's decision to end his life. That is just not fair.

I am glad that you and your brother have each other, and that you were able to forgive your father and keep loving him and appreciate his efforts at healing. That is no small feat and speaks volumes about your character. I will pray that someday you both will find peace enough in your hearts to perhaps forgive your Mom. Even if you never contact her. While you may have lived there, you did not walk in her shoes. Blessings to both of you, it has been a most difficult road you have walked.

 

[Anjelica]

True nursenurse we didn't walk in her shoes, but she hasn't ours either. She was more focused on her friends and partying then all of a sudden had a change of heart after he died.

Forgiveness is unfortunately not an option. If our mother had taken the time just to at least call and say once a month, he most likely would be here with us today.

She is a loser

 

[nursenurse]

I am sorry you feel that way. You honestly don't know if that would have prevented him from killing himself. You all have lost, she has also lost her children. And she lost her husband a long time before he killed himself. Trust me I don't condone her actions if she was out neglecting you and dating while still married to your Dad. But some of the advice that you will read here tells the supporters that they need to make a life for themselves, which includes friendships and getting out. Violence is not the only reason we must opt out of our relationships, and I think you both may learn this as your lives progress. Wish it would be so easy to give you answers. Keep doing what is best for you to give yourselves closure, but it is a long hard life to condemn her forever for her actions. It is not her fault he committed suicide. It is not yours either.

 

[Lost Again]

Oh wow, how sad. Are you in therapy yourself? Your mother was not responsible for your father's mental illness, nor for his abusive behaviour. People have a right to leave relationships.

 

[Anjelica]

God bless you Nursenurse

17 years have passed, not 7 as my typo reads. There is NO way that I am prepared to process any kind of forgiveness for our so called mother. Not to misconstrue my beliefs or to justify violence or neglect in any relationship but I see and believe that some not all sufferers are underlying good men and women.

What bites me and I feel is a cheap alternative cop out is when a sufferer knowingly commits to a marriage or relationship aware of a mental illness, the sufferer tries really hard as in the case of my father, but the supporter which like my mother still walks out and quits the relationship? Then to start dating while my father is struggling to get better?

 

[nursenurse]

I am thinking you meant supporter with the first sufferer....?

Here's the thing, and we run across it time and time again. So many people think they can handle the PTSD and everything that comes with it. Your Mom was likely no exception. They think they know everything, and that their love will be enough to see it through, and that they will live happily ever after. Throw in the various exacerbations of PTSD and whatever forms of mental illness may also be present. Add children and the usual rigours of life, and it becomes an untenable situation a lot of the time. She may have been plum worn out, the stars in her eyes that she saw at the beginning of the relationship dimmed by the reality of a mental illness that has confounded the best of us at times. The problem with so many sufferers is that they start to try when too much damage has been done, and sometimes the supporter ends up with mental issues of their own. Probably they should never had been together in the first place, I don't know.

In no way am I trying to justify how your mother behaved in that she was dating while still attached. I don't know how old you guys were either when all of this transpired. All I can imagine is that it must have been one confusing and dark period in your lives, and you both deserved better than what you got.

It sounds like though you have each other, and I commend you for sticking together and remembering what family is like. Not sure why, but your story has really struck something in me. Wishing you much love and peace, which you both deserve.

 

[Anjelica]

17years have passed and it is still just as sad today as it was then Lost Again.

I expect a lot of controversial opinions and advice. I'm not on here to give advice nor receive it. I was not there in anyone's living situation to experience first hand what they went through or who was to blame nor were they with me?

I'm here merely to voice my story and express how I felt then and how I feel now. If my story can only stop one couple out of the millions of relationships suffering long enough to just smell the roses, assess the relationship, not to jump just yet, and try one last go at it, then my voice has been heard and I would feel really well about all the criticism I look forward to.

There are partners out there that are truly abusive not capable of loving, abusing drugs and Alcohol refuse to seek help, blame everyone else for their misfortunes, refuse to look for work and on top of that play the PTSD card every moment possible. Those sufferers bring it on themselves, those sufferers deserve what my father went through.

What I wish to accomplish is that every supporter STOP STOP STOP just STOP and REFLECT" what attracted that supporter to the sufferer in the first place? Is that sufferer really a bad person? When that sufferer is not going through an attack, how is that sufferer? Is that sufferer fun to be with? Does that sufferer make you happy? Is that sufferer getting better? Is that sufferer trying? How is that sufferer with your community and neighbors? What does your family think of the sufferer when the relationship is not suffering? What we want the supporter to focus on is "without" the PTSD how is that sufferer?


If a supporter can even stop the hatred fueled in by peers long enough to give it some thought, that makes my work here complete.

On top of all that, if the supporter was able to "reflect" and realize "hey yes, I like what I'm reflecting" then you have your answer of whether or not giving that person another chance is even worth it. In essence, if that supporter has a will and determination to want to get better, they will, and the supporter will fell really good about them self too.

I find a lot of advice here are hypocritical. There are NO 2people or relationships alike, not the same scenario or situation, so how is it everyone is quick to advice to RUN?
Because its the easiest.... but really? ask yourself and to the rest of the members offering that similar advice to run, how many end up right back to their sufferer because they reflected that the sufferer really wasn't a bad person? How many end up running and finding them self in even worse situations?

I can't tell anyone what to do but neither should anyone even telling me what to do either. Nobody knows my mother and what she did to us too, but those of you quick to give cheap and shallow advice is NOT advice.

I strongly believe that everyone should base their actions on personal reflection, not peer and forum suggestions? There are a lot of violent and dangerous situations where you DO need to run, but you shouldn't need a peer group or forum to tell you that. I would even say RUN. All I'm saying, is Stop and Reflect for yourself and then You make your own decisions.

Sorry to write all over your page Lost Again, but you were the last to send a message. Ciao

 

[Lost Again]

Hi Anjelica. I think your contribution is valuable. Clearly your unique experience has given you a perspective and also filled you with much remorse and regret with the loss of your father, may his soul be at peace.

Everyone on this site also has their experience living with PTSD. You say you are not here to give advice however you are also deeply hoping to be an inspiration to others to not give up on the sufferers in their life. One thing I know is that the supporters on this site love their sufferers deeply or they wouldn't be here.

I do feel a need to challenge you on your perspective because I think you have taken all your anger from this tragedy, and placed it at your mother's feet. The woman who birthed you, nursed you, and raised you. Besides the issue about her wanting to date and make new friends, she seems to have tried to make a decision to remove violence and instability from her home. True there are some abusive people out there without a mental illness and with no remorse. Many abusive people are also mentally ill and many have PTSD as well. Your father was working on his PTSD which was great, but that doesn't mean he would not abuse your mother again if she took him back. Sometimes people behave in ways that they can't control. Once you strike fear in someone's heart through physical abuse or threats to their life, it is extremely difficult if not impossible to trust and be intimate with that person again, even if you love them deeply. Let me ask you, what if your mother forgave him and returned to him, and he killed her in a moment of rage where he blacked out and couldn't even remember? This story happens every day, and there are many children who have lost their mothers this way.

I understand how sensitive this issue is and I am sorry if my thoughts offend you, but since you have brought your story to this table, I jump in.

 

[bell]

Just a thought: being able to forgive is more about your own healing than anything. Therefore, seeing your mother has unforgivable could hurt you even more than you know when it comes to getting better.

 

[Anjelica]

@nursenurse

My brother was 10 I was 12 at the time. Too young to be independent but old enough to know and feel right from wrong.

Given the situation from a median outlook, generally yes, we are at heart with the supporter, but also fail to realize what the sufferer is going through too.

My father was a really really good man, besides the PTSD and even with that, he was slowly catching on to his triggers with counseling and therapy and would try to hibernate himself for the protection of others. He was always so hard on himself for things he really had no control or intention to do.

Sufferers like that, in my opinion deserve another chance, they deserve to be and need to be supported!! Not abandoned!!

I am sorry if I offend anyone but this is a very emotional subject for me. It has been 17 years and still hurts today like it did that Monday morning I heard the news of my father's death :-(

Like I said I'm NOT here to give advice to anyone nor do I want their advice either. I was not there to chaperone anyone's relationship, nor was anyone there for my parents.

I think that everyone should "STOP" and "REFLECT" their own personal situation and their own personal relationship and compare how the sufferer is on/off PTSD. Then make a decision based on comparing all the positives vs the negatives. In my father's case, his negatives easily weighed out his positives in quantity. But in quality, even though very little, his positives and the very little things he did for all of us was second to none!

I'm not suggesting at all that every supporter jump right back into a relationship and pretend nothing ever happened and it's all a rose Garden view here on in. Maybe the sufferer has just an equal view and hesitation of jumping back in as well. I don't know, but what I do know.

What I do know is that seeing and feeling my father genuinely trying not only for his wife and kids, but him too... his recovery or pathway there would have been so much easier, less stressful, hopeful and potentially successful for ALL of us, if we could have at least just picked up the phone once in a while and said " hi" or accepted one of his calls to us :-(

It's too late for my brother and I, but if anyone is in a similar situation, it's just easier, better and hopeful for everyone... that is of course if there was any real love and caring for that person still there and both are willing to work at it

 

[Venusian]

Anjelica, I am sorry that your father made the decision he did. Of course it hurts deeply, he was your father and you loved him. I am also sorry that you can't find a way to forgive your mother. We don't know all the details of what happened when you were a child and I keep trying to not project my own feelings and experiences into your life. I have PTSD but I do not think I was ever abusive towards anyone and no one has ever accused me of being abusive. I have been around abusive people and the anxiety I feel builds every moment until I can get out of their presence. Once I am away it is like the world has lifted and I never want to be back there.

You were very young when this happened and perhaps there was a lot of history between your parents that you do not know about. It is easy to see things in the best possible light when the darkness is no longer there. It is good advice for everyone to reflect before they make the decision that affects so many people and you also said that

that is of course if there was any real love and caring for that person still there and both are willing to work at it

Perhaps your mother did reflect, maybe she didn't, I don't know. Perhaps she had given more chances than you know about and perhaps she had come to the point that she was no longer willing to work at it. You are no longer that young child, try looking at the situation from an adults perspective with 2 young children to protect. It is very apparent that you are still very angry at your mother and maybe it is justified but maybe there are a lot of questions you have that only she can answer. If you have questions don't wait too long to ask them.