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Toxic Friendships

  • Post starter Post starter Anna
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This is a great thread! My rules of friendship having been born a sensitive, are simple. Protect me from my friends, I can protect myself from my enemies. When any friendship does not return something of itself it is not. It is not easy as it has to start with respecting ones own judgement. Rarely do members of a household grow under the same roof!
 
My father told me he wants us to be friends the other day on the phone!

I'm scared.

Does he not get that friendship entails two people trusting each other? He does not get that his continuous disprespect towards me has caused me to...well, lose respect for him, and lose the bond of trust that was once there.

He has the emotional intelligence of a gnat!
 
My father told me he wants us to be friends the other day on the phone!

If he is lacking in friendship skills then just maybe he is seeking a way to lessen his guilt feelings. I find people have ulterior motives when seeking friendship with me. I am not an easy person to be friends with and just like you said, it takes two people, both working toward a 50/50 relationship. If you are scared, maybe there is a good reason for you to take it slow; maybe this person has proven to be a unsafe. Go with your gut feelings on this and keep yourself safe from whatever has transpired in the past. Disrespect should never be tolerated and you have the upper hand here: go forward, or wait. Waiting is good. When in doubt, do nothing.
 
Thankyou so much.

Yeah, he has definitely proved himself to be unworthy of my trust and disrespectful on many occasions, so I'm not sure why I'm actually doing this, but at least he doesn't know where I live. He has my phone number, but that is easily changed.

I don't know that it was a good decision to start up contact with him again. He already got back into the swing of playing games with me in the first mninute...after a year of no contact. That is not a good sign right, and my father is not one to easily relinquish control.

I think I'm just surrounded by idealists who have been encouraging me to transform and heal the relationship...but I'm a realist. That man will never change.
 
but I'm a realist. That man will never change.

I've heard it said time and again to never say never. Could you sidestep his comment about being friends by explaining he's your father and that's very different than a friend? Not sure if that really helps in a relationship that's not comfortable for you to be in, but having defined terms and agreeing on what something is might be a good start.
 
I like that saying as well, and I guess a part of me hopes that he will change, because I've seen him transform a lot over the last 15 years...in ways I can't describe here, though he still has that real nasty streak in him, and is very ignorant still...and I know it's also up to me to accept them both the way they are if I'm to have any peace of mind and be able to accept myself more as well, so I realize it is not just him here.

Do you mean that I could say to him that I don't really want to be friends, but that I need a father who is more sensitive to my feelings and who has some idea about empathy, and then point out what I mean, as he is so deep into denial and always looks for every other reason to why I am like this...to avoid having to look at how he has contributed.

I know that if he really saw in reality how his behavior and the way he belittles and mocks me, makes me feel and affects me, he would be really upset. It's just his ego that likes hurting me...but I know that we are not just our egos, and whilst he is not the most enlightened person in the world, neither am I.

A friend of mine was asking me if I think it's worth the effort to try for change with people who don't even see me or see my beauty...and a part of me thinks he's right as well, but there is this other part of me...the sucker part, that just wants it to be something that can happen.

I want to believe that he really will want to change when he sees how he behaves and how it affects me, and I think that can happen if I just keep putting up boundaries when he plays those games. My friend says that people never change, so why bother...a part of me wants to believe he will.

I know my friend just wants me to not be damaged anymore by them, and I don't either, so another part of me is wondering if I am just putting myself in a position where I will be damaged more...and I don't need that. He doesn't even know what he does...and he doesn't want to know either.
 
Philippa, I have read some of your posts and always enjoy what you write. I too have had a difficult relationship with my father all of my life, to say the least. He was abusive when I was a child. I am completely estranged from him now, and I am glad. He is old, 80's, and will probably die wo reconciliation, but I am satisfied that that is the way it has to be because I had to set up boundaries of not allowing him to hurt, abuse and take advantage of the kindness and compassion I extend to other's in need.

I am very concerned about your relationship with your father because of what you have written above. I think you need to be very careful with him (I do not want him to hurt you again). If you are able to set boundaries and keep yourself safe from verbal insults, or whatever else he does to hurt you, fine. If you struggle to make clear boundaries with him I fear he will hurt you.

I understand the paradoxical feelings of wanting our parents approval and love all of our lives. Of course that need lessens as we become adults, nevertheless, the ideal would be to have a supportive, loving, caring parent who gives us positive encouragement, love and support, all of our lives. Some of us do not have that opportunity in our lives because our parents come with their own problems, needs, wants and scars.

Please be careful, although he is your father. If there is one thing I have learned in this life and fully and wholly believe in that is that you can never, ever change another person. We can only change ourselves.
I'm not sure any of this post helps you. I really just wanted you to know, I am very concerned for you, based on the description of him you've given. Please be careful with him, you will have to protect yourself because he doesn't sound like he is careful or always kind and loving with you.
 
Anna,

So many posts before mine full of wisdom and insight, but I just wanted to say, yes, we tend to fall "victim" (starting to hate that word, prefer survivor) to people who can and will take advantage of us. I am just beginning to realize I am a magnet for abusive types because I send out vibes of care-taker/motherly type. I will be careful not to do so in the future. I am so tired of taking care of everybody else. I am now in my 50's and it's my turn!!!

As many others said, these types of people are what we are used to/familiar with, comfortable with. I think there is some truth in that. Then again, we can never truly know a person until after we spend time with them and they show their true colors. She took advantage of your kindness and grace and you therefore had to end the relationship. I think you deserve to give yourself credit for having done so. Live and learn.
 
Do you think because of abuse we put up more with people that are toxic?
In my case it is because during the abuse I was forced to always make excuses for my f*ther, to always second guess if it was really his 'fault' this time that he treated me like shit again, or if I did any teeny tiny thing that might have maybe contributed a bit and therefore puts all the 'blame' for his behaviour on me.

Everything was always my fault and I only ever had myself to blame if I was treated badly. It keeps me glued to toxic people because they play on this tendency. Kind people don't use blame or self-victimsation in order to get their way; they argue fairly and just leave when they've had enough.
 
I was friends with 2 other women for 20 years.

One I knew had real paranoia problems caused by her family but she kept trying to control me. I just forgave her and stayed loyal to her despite what she threw at me. Then one day she accused me of deliberately hurting her grown up daughter. I was so shocked that I e-mailed her back and told her I did nothing and perhaps we should meet somewhere public to talk it over face to face. She refused. I haven't heard from her for years and it was like a divorce for me. I loved her unconditionally but she wanted to control, to this day I think she is waiting for me to come on bended knee to apologise and that's never going to happen.

I have spent my life being bullied and abused and it is only now that I am starting to see how toxic these relationships can be.

The other women took, took, took and I gave, gave, gave. She suffered from some child abuse and I felt she needed a friend to support her. I would always listen to her problems and try to help. Sometimes she would ring me, crying, 3 times a day. I would always listen and try to help if she needed me to and I was there for her. Whenever I had a problem she would change from friend to counsellor (She had done a counselling course) and start to try to solve my problems instead of just listening and sharing. This lady never married and did not have children.

My husband saw early on that this lady was bleeding me dry but I never saw it. My lads saw it too and they all tried to warn me. I should have set better boundaries. Sometimes she would turn up at the house in the morning and still be there late in the evening. I would put my fire on to keep her warm, feed her and do her course work for her many college courses. In the end it was obvious that she was uncomfortable around my Son and we had a big argument which started with her screaming at me in my own kitchen and not allowing me to speak. She wanted me to her self but she didn't want my H and kids around, not even in their own home - big mistake!

The next day I range her to try to talk about it but she cut me off. I was devastated and grieved long and hard - I still do. But, with my husband and children's help and that of my Therapist I have learned some valuable lessons.

1.I have learned to evaluate these friendships. As has been said before, what did I get out of them? Well, in honesty, very little. So why did I stick with them? Because I was lonely and better a bad friend than non at all right? Wrong! It is better to have an enemy who is obviously an enemy than a friend who pretends at being a friend.

2. I am learning to recognise poor friendships before I commit to them. Someone else offered me friendship recently but I turned it down. She wants my problems so she can 'help' me with them and feel good about it. She doesn't want 'me' as a person so she is kept at harms length. She doesn't like it but that is her problem not mine.

3. I am learning to set realistic boundaries. My T tells me that friendships are like concentric circles. In the outer circle are lots of acquaintances, they are there but never get too close. Further in there are those who we see more often and are closer but the inner circle is reserved for those we truly love and trust and who love and trust us. It is sacred and few get in it.

4. I am stepping out of the 'triangle of abuse.' This is the drama triangle my T taught me:
triangle.gif Those of us who have been the victim send out signals to the persecutor and we are attracted to them. The persecutor does not show their true colours at first but eventually does. By then the victim is 'stuck' in a rut and cant seem to get out.

The rescuer then steps in to aid the victim (I prefer survivor). Often, those of us that were victims turn to rescuing others which can be a good thing. Often, the rescuer ends up persecuting the persecutor in order to save the victim and becomes the thing that he/she hates (a persecutor) and the persecutor becomes the victim.

So you can see how it becomes a vicious circle. Those of us who have been victims do tend to attract the toxic and, because our lives have been hard and lonely we stay with the abuse. But we need to learn how to 'step out of the triangle.' To be neither victim or rescuer and definitely not the persecutor.

My T also told me that as I change I will attract new friends who are very different from the people I use to know.

Anna and others, I truly hope this helps and I sympathise. Breaking off friendships is truly like a divorce and can take time to heal but we are most definitely better off without them.

((((HUGS TO ALL))))
 
Thankyou for your very thoughtful post woundedsoul.

I realize I cannot change him, and I can only change myself...which I have in many ways already.

I can hope that he will change, and I have seen him change in many ways in the past 10 years, for the better I believe, but I also agree with you, that he is too much of a bull in a china shop, and I cannot afford to let him loose in my shop anymore.
 
Here's my thought.

Do the people /friends/family you think are toxic to you even know you think that about them? At the very least a conversation about that should be had I think. If they choose to live in denial about it after well then, goodbye, but, maybe they don't even know they are. At least give them an explanation as to why you won't be / can't talk to them anymore.

Ditching out on people without an explanation is harsh.

Just my thought. I'm a toxic type person, I wear people down, it's not on purpose, mostly I don't realize it and it really wrecks me when people just quit talking to me or avoid me. I'd rather know what it is I do to them specifically or what I've done to warrant the end of the friendship.

Just my thinking when I read and re-read this thread.
 
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