Relationship Toxicity, Manipulation, Narcissism... Let's Have A Chat.

[dulcia]

I don't know. Now I just feel confused again.

 

[grimalkin]

I don't know. Now I just feel confused again.

It sounds like you need to decide how much is enough. Even though I don't consider my sufferer abusive, and even though he's the one instigating splitting up, if he were to say "I don't want to split up after all," I wouldn't agree at this point. He would need to get help, and own his behavior, and realize how he's broken my trust, and be willing to address the issues PTSD has caused in our relationship, before I'd even consider "getting back together." And I'd need to be in a place where I can make and enforce my boundaries.

When it comes to your initial question/request - to talk about toxicity, narcissism, and manipulation...even if your sufferer isn't purposely doing these things, the relationship might still be toxic for YOU, and YOU are possibly being manipulated. I also suffer from depression and anxiety (in remission right now, thank the powers that be and the right meds, or I'd be a mess more than I already am), and realized through all of this (these forums, and working with my own therapist) that my relationship was co-dependent.

So, even though c-PTSD is an issue in my ending relationship, it's not the only issue. AND, even though I love my sufferer dearly, right now, it is still a toxic relationship, even though neither of us INTENDED to make it that way. Even though my sufferer isn't JUST a "loner asshole," he's still acting like one and doesn't want to address it. So, he is CHOOSING to be a loner asshole, over figuring out his shit.

Ultimately, you have to decide if and when you've had enough, and (hopefully) choose your own health and sanity. It's so, so difficult to choose yourself; but, look at it this way, if your sufferer is being an ass, he's making the decision easier. He's not going to watch out for you, so YOU have to watch out for you. You can't fix him (only he can do that), and you can't even help him, if he doesn't want it. And, ultimately, if you are out of steam, you aren't doing EITHER of you any good to stick around. *hugs if you want them because I'm there, and it's so difficult*

 

[joeylittle]

He can have PTSD, and it can make your relationship challenging/difficult, without it having to develop into something like a toxic relationship.

The way you describe it - it does sound pretty toxic, to be honest. But fundamentally, relationship issues are communication issues. People with PTSD also often have communication issues, when they are symptomatic. Being able to recognize those, and then divert away from behaviors in the relationship that are harmful...that's achievable.

I think you are doing some really effective thinking here, looking at what you have 'wrapped up' into the notion of what is PTSD, as far as he goes. And it sounds like you are looking to tease apart, or separate out, some issues that are really destroying your relationship.

Forgive me if you've answered this elsewhere....couple's counseling?

 

[FireSign8]

I sort of feel like all of us here in the US are now prisoners of our abusers because they are suddenly in the highest & most powerful positions & refusing to have any sort of empathy for the people. So, it's almost as if the people in power have given a hall pass to the other misbehaving bullies of the world that it's just fine & dandy to assert their powers over the rest of us. My thoughts on the subject of narcissistic behavior types!

 

[Lilac Faerie]

I don't know. Now I just feel confused again.

Confusion. It's a hard taskmaster. I think tho, if you look deep into your heart of hearts, you will realize what it is you must do. I know *I* do. The only thing that stops me is the fear of facing the inevitable confrontation when he is told or realizes that I am leaving. I've socked money away, gotten my own credit card and bank account waiting in the wings. I've even decided what I'm willing to leave behind. Because once the car is full with the things I can take, I'm not coming back.

Much luck to you.

 

[dulcia]

@joeylittle, I've recently started counseling individually. My SO brought up couples counseling and we were going to try after I had some time to establish a relationship with my T first.

 

[dulcia]

@FireSign8, politics is a major dividing factor for us, especially recently.

 

[scout86]

Leave out the question of whether or no he's abusive for a second. Is this a situation you want to deal with for the rest of your life? If not, is it a situation that's realistically likely to change. "Abuse" isn't the only thing that can make an relationship non-functional. Different people are affected differently by the same situation. That doesn't have to be seen as a right or wrong kind of thing.

The one great relationship I ever had was with a guy who'd leave to go get something, get side tracked, and totally forget I was waiting for him.(Like for hours.) For some people, that would have been infuriating. I thought it was hilarious. I have a few quirks that drive a lot of people nuts. He thought they were cute. Go figure.

My point it, you don't have to decide if this is abuse or PTSD. You just have to decide if it's a relationship that' working for you, or not.

 

[dulcia]

The lying and cheating is something I don't want to deal with for the rest of my life. There is more support he can seek for his PTSD/TBI but I don't know about support for that other stuff.....

Thanks for your comment, @scout86. The black and white sometimes f*cks my mind up.

 

[Gs172003]

The lying and cheating is something I don't want to deal with for the rest of my life. There is more...

The lying and cheating should be deal breakers regardless

 

[dulcia]

The lying and cheating should be deal breakers regardless

Yeah.

 

[lostforgottensoul]

I never take my anxiety out on anyone

This is the only thing that makes me differ, the remainder in the post I 100% agree with.

My anxiety causes what looks like blind rage explosions. They are blind & explosions but fueled by anxiety, not rage. I only seem to on people I live with if i do. If i dont i am so isolated that i dont have the chance to. I isolate either way but if you live with me then there is forced interaction.

I cannot control them. I have been taught to feel them a min or less before they happen but i cannot control them. I always appologize afterwards and i am sincere about that and I always make sure the person knows why i have these explosions. And i get appologies only go so far but i honestly cannot help it.

But i agree with the rest.

This:

My sufferer lashes out when stressed, and his behavior is what I consider abusive at times. I didn't consider him to be abusive. I guess for me, the intent has to be there, conscious or not. The only times I HAVE considered it abuse is when he tries to justify his abusive behavior, instead of owning it and trying to fix it. But, I still don't consider him an "abuser." I don't see him as someone who WANTS to control me, and isn't necessarily trying to control ME. He is someone who, because of trauma, feels he needs to be in control, and that can come out in ways that are considered abusive; he is trying to control himself, his past, and his reaction to the chemical hijacking that his own trauma has brought on.

Is 100% me! Intent is HUGE and most don't get that. I don't intend to hurt anyone but myself but I do and I can't help that. I can't stop nor control my explosions at the moment.

@tiredtexan your SO sounds borderline to me with what you described

This term gets thrown around a lot as well. Not much in that post sounded borderline to me.