Trans, nb, queer and intersex folks - welcome!

[shatter eyes]

What does the "AF" stand for?

I was wondering also. AF... Americal Female.. African Female Asian female...

 

[shatter eyes]

Sometimes I feel like that maybe, rather than asexual. I was very sexual in my youth, have a son to prove it, but I think trauma might have messed that up.

Thanksfor sharing. The lack of desire for sex is felt here too. I am 35 and do not have ideas or desire for sex.

I will ask about trauma and sexdrive to doc

 

[somerandomguy]

AFAB means assigned female at birth.
AMAB means assigned male at birth.

 

[Muttly]

So if I was born female, and I identify as female I'm cis?? Because others who identify as female may not have been born into a female body right?? But its not a term I should necessarily use because it could be offensive..

@Freida This is in no means, directed to you. I understand you are just trying to understand. I'm just sharing it to provide some perspective from a trans person. I manage to not be upset by a lot of things but the idea that "cis" is offensive is one that gets to me sometimes. I have had several conversations with cis people about this who felt that being labeled as cis is wrong to use. As @Sweetleaf explained, it is a term that evolved to simply be the opposite of trans. If you look at the roots and definitions of cis, none of them are offensive.

Every single person I've talked to who has found the term upsetting has said the same thing, that they don't want a label. So... how can we have conversation? If we happen to be having a conversation about trans and non-trans people, what language are we supposed to use. If you are talking about two different groups of people, you need words to define them. And the replies I've always gotten are some variant of "don't label" and "I don't care, I don't like it". And that bothers me. Because these same people have no issues with folks like me being labeled as "trans". Having that label makes sense to them. So why is it fine to stick a term on us, trans folks, but not them? To me, it's kind of like saying that "straight" is offensive. Is it? Why. Because you think you are so normal that no definition need ever be applied to people like you?

If you don't like the term "cis" for you personally because you don't feel like you fit in with the group of people who fully identify with the gender that you were assigned as birth, that's fine for me. If you don't like "cis" because you don't want a label? Bah, then explain to me how we are supposed to communicate and tell me why it's ok for trans, gay, white/caucasian, male, female, etc are ok terms.

 

[Freida]

This is in no means, directed to you. I under

Oh no---I wasn't thinking that at all! I'm just amazed that there are all these versions of the word "person" that I had never heard about and wanted to make sure I get which is which.

If you don't like "cis" because you don't want a label?

Naw, I don't really care about a label. I have so many as it is (female, white, older, vet, disabled, dispatcher, wife, sister, aunt, blahblah) that one more wont bother me. And I agree - if we are going to communicate by labeling one we need to label all. I just want to make sure I'm understanding which one fits me because..well..if I get it wrong it might lead to some major embarrassment for me.

 

[Muttly]

@Freida Yes, as I said, I wasn't really directing at you. I know you were just trying to understand. The conversation about the term just brought all that to mind.

Also, I think you are great. :)

 

[Scarlet13]

I agree with you @Muttly
I think when people say they don't want a label it quite often happens for people who have identities already existing in mainstream accepted and visible identity markers such as being straight and cis.
These identities are reflected every where and messages from society indicate that this is how it should be, but these messages are full of bias and do not reflect how humans are or how they want to be. So a sort of "blindness" happens to you when your identity matches up with the visible accepted norm. So having a label placed on that can feel uncomfortable to people who get to exist in that blindness that occurs from having such a visible accepted and reflected identity.
People don't say oh so and so is straight. They are really, really straight and very cis.
But we need to have labels in order to have conversations and reach for visibility and acceptance for all.
Sorry if this is wordy as I just completed an intense week of diversity training and I am trying to curtail my passion a bit.

 

[Swift]

@Muttly I apologise if this is a triggering thread for you. I go by she/her, what do you use?

I call myself "a bit left of cis", usually...
But yeah, if you're born female and live as female, you're cis. If I'm trying to express myself, I generally say I'm a cis female.

Any term is potentially loaded. People who are trans generally have different experiences to people who are cis, though. I don't know what it's like to be trans, therefore I identify as cis, I guess. My mate Max and I went through school together both presenting as female, and he is the manliest man that ever manned. I get "read" as a woman and I'm OK with that. In queer spaces I get "read" as non-binary, and interestingly, that's less comfortable for me. I don't like "they" pronouns, I like it if people call me she/her, and I really really hate being called "he", although that's only happened once and the person doing it was trying to throw me off on purpose, because I wore a tie to a corporate meeting and she was feeling threatened.


It's not like nails down a chalkboard when someone calls me a woman or girl for me, most of the time. I haven't had the experience of being trans, and I'm not likely to, so cis works for me as a general term. As opposed to my trans mates, who hate being misgendered with the fire of a thousand suns.

So, to me, being "cis" is not so much about what I experience, as the things I definitely don't experience. There's a really big myth that "cis" stands for Comfortable In Skin - which is bullshit. As everyone else has pointed out, it's just Latin. I don't know off anyone who's 100% comfortable in their skin after trauma.

I think trauma as a cis chick makes this really... I want to use the word "interesting". So many of us had our body parts used against us. Our experiences of our bodies, particularly femaleness, are so fraught. I don't think pretending helps anyone on that front.

But... Essentially I'm happy if people call me she or her, I'm happy if people assume I'm female, I exist in the world as a woman. It's not like that for most transmasc or trans male people.

 

[Muttly]

@Swift I go by he/him.... although it gets a bit confusing because in therapy and sometimes here I become they/them. That's just because I have did and addressing all my parts.

Overall this thread has been super rewarding for me. I live in an area where I don't interact or see any other trans people. So, having a safe place to talk with understanding and similar people is great.

 

[Ronin]

But yeah, if you're born female and live as female, you're cis.

I am not sure I can fully agree with this, on theoretical principles.

Those words are defined via identifying as for a reason, as living as can be about closets, about culture around you, and not how you experience the world and navigate it.

By the same logic, every trans person living part time or full time in their assigned gender would be cis... and they are not. Nonbinary people and intersex people do not even *have* that assigned at birth (and determinant basis for who is cis and is not) option because many cultures (at least those issuing paper IDs as official IDs and validation of identity) do not HAVE a third option equivalent (to (C)AMAB and (C)AFAB). They are not cis for having matching assigned / legally declared gender and whichever appearance.

And because, as you pointed out, that experience is clearly different, regardless of how is one read (and gender one identifies with making the reactions and experience of threats and annoyances different.)

Mostly just musing out loud since I get what you are saying and from the whole of your post we are making the same point about the concept, just yeahh, words nitpicker, me. :)

 

[Friday]

@Possum Josh sign into your account in order to post

 

[Swift]

Sorry @Ronin, just trying to simplify... Badly, clearly. You explained much better.

I think... I think the differences between being "cis" in life and being "trans" in life are huge. In my experience very few people actually want to identify as "cis", because they feel like it excludes them from something they want to be a part of. I guess my point was that I don't experience dysphoria with "she/her" stuff, and most trans and nonbinary people do....

But I agree with you. Not nitpicking, important distinction :)