Unhealthy Church Part 2: Am I A Divisive Person?

[scout86]

@Justmehere , I would venture to guess that the Pharisees thought Jesus was a "divisive person".

This kind of issue is tough. There really ARE people in the world who go around picking fights for the apparent fun of it. And people who enjoy the drama of setting one person or group against another. I'd call THEM "decisive people". You don't come across as being remotely like that. But, there are also people who find people who don't quickly and easily see things the way they do to be a problem.And some of them probably run churches. And they might seem to be very nice people, as long as you agree with them and don't ask too many questions.

IMO Jesus and God don't have a problem with people asking questions. I know some churches disagree with that. I kind of figure, if God didn't like questions, he wouldn't have created creatures who live to learn answers to them. JMO. The last church I went to was very nice. I liked the people. Right up to the day the new preacher announced that you can't be a "Christian" if you believe in evolution. I almost walked out right them, but stayed to the end & never went back. You can't judge Jesus by all the people who claim to be his followers. There's a whole bunch of scripture that speaks to that.

I'm dealing with some stuff right now that I think relates to this. I haven't got it sorted out well enough to put it easily in to words. My T read over a letter to a lawyer for me the other night. He said that, in many conversations, the intent is to share and to learn and then it's good to include your reasoning and opinions. But, some conversations are adversarial and you should stick with the facts. I realized, when I read that, that it usually really matters to me what people think, and I have this idea that, if I can only make them understand, they won't think I'm "wrong". (Because my job in my family of origin was to be "wrong" and I'm always trying to fix that.) The reality is, I CAN'T fix that. I mean, there are people out there who are ALWAYS going to think I'm "wrong" just because they need it to be that way. I think you might be doing something similar here. Thinking "if I can only make myself understood, it will be ok". That's probably not true. Not because YOU aren't ok. but because THEY aren't ok.

 

[Ellabella44]

@scout86 I only lable these types of people as "wastes of my time". Politely wish their lives to be as pleasant as they are. And walk on. :)

 

[Ronin]

@Justmehere is there a way to take a break from it all? And from religion?

You're not terrible at picking friends. That they're dysfunctional people does not speak about you, or your sense of people. Everyone can be deceived if you play what's personal to them. Hardly speaking about your sense at all.

I want to address so much more of your posts, just right now bit out of spoons. So thinking of you & wishing you well and safety it is.

 

[Justmehere]

I'm in really off kilter headspace, so I am hesitant to respond. I reading though. Thanks for all the support.

I feel like such a fool, and so confused. I went back after they got weirded and screwed up but agreed to move forward in a healthy way. Nothing weird has happened until this. I can't figure out why I responded like I did or why all these suicidal thoughts are back or why the heck I said what I did to people who were proven to be unsafe... (I'm safe, going to haul my butt to an ER before I act on any of these thoughts.) I don't normally even tell my therapist when my mind gets this dark. (I know, I should, I'm working on it.) But I tell them? Of all people.

I remember telling the pastor "I can not ever make you happy" and for half a second, it felt like I was 7 years old again, in my father's truck, crying because he was raging again and I couldn't make him happy.

Kinda makes me think this mess has little to do with religion or God but all about something unresolved from my childhood trauma that compelled me to go back and try to work it out with the closest abusive people I could find, and then I say the stupidest vulnerable things to them about being in pain, and then I feel all that same panic I felt as a kid. It's a life and death level of panic. It feels like I must SOLVE this or die. I don't actually think this, but I feel like that. Or maybe it's that the adult me is not thinking this but whatever inside of me that is not so grown up is thinking that. Because that's what I thought as a kid, and it's kind of where my head is right now. This thinking is so distorted on so many levels, it's ridiculous. I am so embarrassed about this.

Really, I need to get out of whatever headspace I have regressed into and get the adult me back in a hurry.

 

[Ronin]

@Justmehere, (hugs).
No rush. Taking care of yourself with what you can, letting others take care of you, is Good Solving. You don't have to solve everything else about the situation now, it's something you can work at later, right now you and your safety are a priority methinks.

You're not a child in that sense now, and you weren't a foolish child. You were a smart child. You're still a smart child, just grown up, now. I don't think you'd be so bothered by need to problem solve & so active at problem solving, if you weren't.

 

[Friday]

Are you a divisive person? Consider the source.

If someone I despise insults me? I take it as a compliment.

Conversely, if someone something somewhere no good, very bad, awful praises me? Ugh. Now that's an insult!

 

[deer_in_headlights]

(((((((((((((@Justmehere ))))))))))))

My heart is with you!!!

I am so sorry that all this is happening to you. I had hoped that things were improving, not spiraling downhill. This is all so unnecessary, wrong, painful and very sad...

I apologize for talking about my experience, but I hope this could be helpful and encouraging for you (((((((@Justmehere )))).

I'm currently not going to the church I love - because of some abusive people, and because the pastor didn't protect me. (I'm also in a lot of pain and very vulnerable.)

I was frantic to get back into church, until the day I felt enfolded in God's arms. I felt (and still do) as if The Good Shepherd has gathered me up in His arms, is carrying me and keeping me safe.

I'm content to remain in His arms, receiving His healing, comfort and peace, trusting in Him to keep me close to His heart, trusting in Him to gently set me down in the flock of His choosing when I am healed enough to be among others without being bullied. In the meantime, setting aside personal and private prayer and scripture-reading time with Him is healing and far better than being in a dangerous group. While it is not good to be out of community for long, focusing on what I get from people and losing sight of my utter dependence upon God is to my detriment. This time set-apart from bullies and being alone with Him deepens my love-relationship with the One Who created me and loves me far more than any human can love me.

The more I learn about sheep, how some bully the weaker ones, and others stand by... The more I learn about hired shepherds who won't give their lives for the flock, who strut and bully and use their position of authority wrongly, the more I understand that living in harmony is good - unless I'm being abused and harmed, and then I know it is right to depart instead of buying into a sick cult or an overly-sickened particular church group. The church itself can be very, very good. It's the abuse of injured, weakened, vulnerable ones by people who claim to be followers of Christ, but who wouldn't be recognized by Christ as His - because of their abusive, hurtful behaviour. Just know that God hears you, knows the tears that you cry, the pain and distress you are suffering over their treatment of you.

Bullies proudly justify their abuse and harsh treatment of you by taking a verse from the Bible out of context to justify their ill-treatment of you. That is so very arrogant. Believe me, please, those people who do that are more into power and abuse than living the heart of the Gospel which is love, servanthood, healing, embracing and mercy. While we cannot judge another, I believe that these are the people that Christ said "I never knew you".

These people do not understand who Christ is, if they behave this way. Christ would NOT treat you this way! Their hearts are NOT enthroned by Him.

There are abusive people in every church, unfortunately. You just have to be in one where the Pastor is truly a holy person, anointed of God to be a humble shepherd.
I would tend to recommend a more established, traditional church denomination - (like the Episcopal church that you went to, Lutheran, Methodist, mainstream Baptist, Presbyterian, Roman Catholic...), as there tend to be (not perfectly for sure!) greater checks and balances than in an offshoot church centered around a powerful leader. Many of those off-shoot churches can be good, but the opportunity for abuse and cult-like behaviour is much more likely in a church that has been created by a new founder.

The doing good in the community can be genuine, or can be a covering cloak to hide an abusive environment. Most abusers are lauded by the community, because the facts are hidden from them - the community only sees the outward created appearance (the washed outside of the cup). The comfort is God knows, and is with you in this. It was the self-righteous, powerful, gossipy, religious Pharisees who wore scripture verses on their sleeves and paraded their works out in public who had Christ crucified.

Do you want to be a part of their group? Do you want to become an acolyte of Pharisees? Non-divisive and blindly just like them? (Matthew 23)
Or, are you going to be truly God's Child, a follower of the meek, loving and Divine Christ who came to save you? Being His follower means we get treated like He was - at times. With severe pain. But, we also share in His comfort, His loving presence, all the inheritance He has for us and a unique life and faith that no amount of shunning or persecution can take from us. We can become as Shadrach, Meshach, Abednego, Daniel, Esther, Ruth...

It is a blessing for you to NOT be one of them! Hold tight to Christ and let God hold you.
It's ok to come out from that group. You don't need to be around abusive people and try to get them to see you for who you truly are and accept you. Abusers never will be able to love you in the way that you need. You cannot receive acceptance and healing from abusers in order to correct childhood damage. We tend to seek them out to heal original wounds, but they only wound us further. We have to separate from them. Please be careful and wise: groups centered around one person generally are not safe for people with PTSD or childhood abuse histories.

Don't reveal your vulnerabilities to people until you you know are truly safe. Abusers pick up on those signals and will gaslight, crush and control you for their own pleasure and ego needs.

God and the people infused with love, compassion, who are nurturing and understanding will provide the healing and acceptance that we need.

Please run to freedom away from this sick group and get strong in God's arms, in therapy, with people who have your best interests and healing at heart, who love you and will never use or manipulate you, who lift you up and encourage you.

My heart cries with you, my prayers are with you. You are not abandoned or alone...
:hug::hug::hug:

 

[scout86]

but all about something unresolved from my childhood trauma that compelled me to go back and try to work it out

I totally can see that as possible, since I tend to do the same thing. (And my T keeps coming up with variations on "I wish you could stop getting distracted by worrying about getting it 'right'.") It has been very helpful to learn to recognize this. At which point thinking, "Hey, you're NOT my mom and my life does NOT literally depend on you......" has also been helpful. Once I notice that, I remember Monty Python and think "And now, for something completely different...." Because no good has ever come in heading down that particular rabbit hole.

Here's the thing about being "right". It's a moving target and it's nature depends on who's doing the defining. There are different versions and it's really ok that we all don't have the same one. Some people have a hard time accepting that last bit. "We all have our own road maps of reality. They are not the same and none of them are reality, they are only maps. Some are more accurate than others."

 

[Justmehere]

I'm really glad for what everyone has written. I can't write much of a response right now, but I will respond more later.

I found the adult me and today went ok, until it didn't.

@scout86 - I really liked your mention of Monty Python's "And now for something completely different" - that has been a good hook for my brain to think of something different every time these people came to mind.

I did email the pastor late last night. It was a one sentence request that he not contact me via email, phone, or any other means any further. It took him less than 12 hours to crash that boundary.

He emailed me. I didn't read past the vague subject line. I kicked it into my archive folder and ignored it. I was kinda proud of myself for ignoring it... until my mother texted me.

Apparently, he copied my mother on the email. My mother thinks he got her email address from the church database for when my mother visited one year and filled out and info card for the church. I don't know what the email said but it made her mad. It started to spin me out again. I wanted to call this pastor and fix this mess. (ugh.) I reminded myself of this thread and more objective viewpoints than what my triggered brain was thinking.

I resisted the urge to get stuck on this and blocked his email address and phone number, and all others of the church. I'm moving on...

And that's something completely different. :)

 

[Deleted member 12723]

Good for you, well done. Speak your terms once, and then ignore them and keep on doing what you have been doing kicking them to the curb. This kind of problem is so insidious. You are doing well doing something positive to get them out of your life. They have been betraying you on so many levels and that is a very tough thing to heal from because they are speaking nonsense. Ignoring them is the best thing you can do. It changes everything for the better for you in my opinion. Hugs and prayers.

 

[deer_in_headlights]

(((((((@Justmehere))))))) :hug:Hooray!!!:hug: Well done!!!!

The audacity of the pastor breaking boundaries, emailing you and your Mother after your email stating firmly you wished no further contact, is further proof of what an impossible jerk he is. His ignoring your boundary request can be further proof of harrassment if you ever need to file a police report. You might want to retrieve this, and all other correspondence from him, save and print it out and put it into a "Jerk" folder. Evidence of slander, abuse, shunning, harrassment, defamation, or stalking needs a history in order to prove (otherwise without proof, it's all hearsay that can't be supported without documenting it.).
The email to your Mom might be useful to file, as well.

If he is trashing your name and reputation to other church communities it shows what an out-of-control abusive person he is. You might need police, legal, or Victim's Assistance help sometime. Saving this info. can prove his malicious treatment of you and provide protection, and help.

I say this because I had a stalker - a person well- thought of in the community - and had enough evidence to convince our lawyer, the police, a judge and psychiatrist. I got an order of protection, and the person was confined. In the beginning, I didn't bother keeping evidence. I learned quickly that I needed every scrap of evidence that I could gather up, including keeping a log of calls, correspondence, sightings, what others told me, etc... and so began the "Jerk File". That saved me! It would be tempting to toss everything, but please don't. You might need the evidence.

You are wonderful, @Justmehere, and I applaud you, and your courage!

@gizmo says what's in my heart, perfectly!:tup: "Ditto!"

And now for something completely different,:tup::joyful::hug:

 

[Rosewater]

That's an excellent response @Justmehere.

Some years ago I had a similar experience. These non-denominational places are fine when you feel you don't fit in at other places, but not so good when you reject the leader - or he rejects you. So much projection and dysfunction can go on in these "righteous " environments. They can be cruel and brutal, convinced of their own unique holiness. It's just judgmental BS dressed up in robes.

You should be in no doubt that you have done nothing wrong, other than to be a person with vulnerabilities who needs understanding and kindness. The divisiveness is theirs, not yours.

It's quite shameful that their inability to show kindness towards you and your condition has been projected onto you as being your fault. There will probably be a gap in your life now you have cut them out. Try to fill it with new friends and supportive activities and resist any temptation to contact them - they are almost certain to send messages through others and do other things to undermine you, so they can "prove" they are right. You're better than that !